Saddle position compare with road bike

lemotea · Postby **lemotea** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:08 am

Hi everyone, I haven't done any MTB before. Well ride a cheap MTB but never used for off road and never put an effort for adjusting the saddle for proper height or even the set back. So compare to road bike, how do you adjust your saddle, like are you using the same distance with road bike when you used in on hard trail track and what is the sat back distance from the saddle nose to the bb. And how do you calculate the top tube length compare to road bike as for road bike getting lower is better.

Thanks.

drubie · Postby **drubie** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:16 pm

lemotea wrote:Hi everyone, I haven't done any MTB before. Well ride a cheap MTB but never used for off road and never put an effort for adjusting the saddle for proper height or even the set back. So compare to road bike, how do you adjust your saddle, like are you using the same distance with road bike when you used in on hard trail track and what is the sat back distance from the saddle nose to the bb. And how do you calculate the top tube length compare to road bike as for road bike getting lower is better.

Thanks.

I started with mine a similar distance from the pedals as my road bikes, but it ended up 5 or 6cm lower - much easier to get your foot down if necessary, much easier to shift your weight back and forward for sketchy/steep climbs. Nose to bars...never measured it, but I did end up with a 2cm shorter stem than I started with as I preferred the leverage of closer bent arms for bumpy downhill stuff.

Daus · Postby **Daus** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:20 am

I have done pretty much the same with a shorter stem that also angles up higher than the original )assists when standing up in the pedals) however after starting with a lower seat I have progressed to the seat in a high position as my confidence has increased- now I hardly ever put a foot down except when I stop.

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:29 am

drubie wrote: I started with mine a similar distance from the pedals as my road bikes, but it ended up 5 or 6cm lower - much easier to get your foot down if necessary, much easier to shift your weight back and forward for sketchy/steep climbs. Nose to bars...never measured it, but I did end up with a 2cm shorter stem than I started with as I preferred the leverage of closer bent arms for bumpy downhill stuff.

thats a lot

Been thinking about this a bit in regards to my CX bike which I will have soon...I ordered a size smaller frame than my road bike,but my road bike is a tad big for me hence a 110mm stem.I think I will run the seat 5mm lower than my road bike,the same as my mtb...maybe less as I have no problems on my mtb,so I may try 2.5mm.Considering my road bike saddle is 1006mm from my pedal at the bottom of the stroke...5mm is nothing.
Apart from that I struggle to find mtb frames big enough (until I found Focus that make bloody enormous bikes...next bike maybe)...so I run a 135mm stem on my mtb which brings it pretty close to the tops of my road bar.I did run a 15cm drop on my mtb but that is only 10 now with my bad back.

trailgumby · Postby **trailgumby** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:42 am

I started with a roadie saddle position, but have ended up with a much lower one, perhaps 1.5cm lower.

I have been told by a mate it is too low and is lengthening my times around the local benchmark trail loop by about 10-15% I presume by limiting my climbing power, but it reduces the likelihood of my lower back protesting, I no longer get calf cramps on long rides, and makes life *much* easier/safer on technical descents. Getting my bum back and down behind, with the seat up in my solar plexus is now achievable! Haven't been concerned about going over the bars for ages.

The work I'm doing with the physio on core strength and muscle firing sequence may result in me lifting my saddle

Tried raising my seat in the spin class last night to what most would call a "standard" roadie position, and the lower back let me know within thirty seconds that it wasn't gonna work. Unfortunately the spin bikes at the gym only allow for seat height adjustment in half-inch increments. Position "N" feels slightly too low, and position "O" I rock the hips too much.

The other option is to get one of those gaslift seatposts like the Rockshox Reverb that you can drop using a switch on the handlebars, and then flick the lever again to return to normal position.

Hadn't seriously considered getting one myself because of the weight/expense, but if I was riding places like Oxford Falls on a more regular basis I think I'd do it.

drubie · Postby **drubie** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:13 pm

toolonglegs wrote:
drubie wrote: but it ended up 5 or 6cm lower
thats a lot

Been thinking about this a bit in regards to my CX bike which I will have soon...

It turns out TLL that I am both incredibly unco and overly sensitive to the sensation of the bike tipping backwards on really sleep, loose climbs. It was the only way for me to get comfortable. I'm pretty sure it limits the amount of power I can get down when seated (but I don't race MTB, just fool around, so it doesn't matter). If I rode more I might think about lifting the saddle but I definitely prefer a shorter reach to the bars.

On a CX bike, the saddle can't really be too high as it makes the jump-off / re-mount too hard for the bits where you have to get off. Nothing worse than the nose of the saddle jagging on your bibs through a clumsy re-mount.

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:19 pm

drubie wrote: On a CX bike, the saddle can't really be too high as it makes the jump-off / re-mount too hard for the bits where you have to get off. Nothing worse than the nose of the saddle jagging on your bibs through a clumsy re-mount.

Don't you leap on from the side?....I have pretty good fitting kit so hopefully wont be an issue.The dismount is a step off (r hand down between legs to grab top tube / unclip r leg and swing it round the back and then between left leg and frame / step down and unclip l leg & lift bike to shoulder)..well thats what I am doing

.
Remount is jumping from lh side onto saddle and just peddaling motion until feet connect with pedals and clip in.But I haven't really practiced remounts much yet as my mtb is too compact geometry and also when I first tried it a month or so ago it was very painful jarring in my back.
I think I will be able to run my saddle a little higher than my mtb.Somewhere in between the road and mtb.
Gumby...sounds like you have super tight hammies as well?.

trailgumby · Postby **trailgumby** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:36 pm

It depends on who you're comparing against, I suppose. They're "OK" but not great. Not great compared with a good cyclist, but much better than most at my local gym, it seems. But then most at my gym would not be pedalling a bike for 10+ hours a week.

My main issue is the following combination:
[*]a sedentary job jockeying computer screens on my butt all day, leading over the years to
[*]dismally poor core strength by any objective standard, and
[*]prior injury to my sacro-illiac joints by stepping in a dip in the path with my knee locked out.

Then add an historically diabolical pattern of pedalling movement of which I've only recently come to fully appreciate (now improving but a work in progress), from being very right side dominant for most of my life, and long hours on a bike.

Pedalling a bike isn't necessarily so simple, it seems.

alchemist · Postby **alchemist** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:10 pm

toolonglegs wrote:I think I will be able to run my saddle a little higher than my mtb.Somewhere in between the road and mtb.

Sounds about right. Most people will have their saddle a little further back and dropped a little (~1cm). Overall cockpit length will also be a little shorter.

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:42 pm

just went down for a measure

.
Road bike is set up as diagram except bars have been raised due to my back.
My mtb is 1000mm for L so 6mm lower.For J it is 625mm instead of 552mm, not really sure why but K may explain it.K is 79mm on roadie and 115 on mtb.
So although I am running roughly the same saddle height I am sitting way further back....already have a long 130-135mm stem but I will try bringing my saddle forward a bit as well.
I suppose keep in mind that while my mtb is a hard tail it is more a play bike than race bike...all going well I will be on something more speedy next year

.

steve-waters · Postby **steve-waters** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:02 pm

so just a bit of hi-jacking here cause this is almost exactly what I came to find today

both my hard tail and rodie have same STA 73 degrees - I have got a set back on the roadie and fit is pretty much knee over pedal/crank as a start but moved a bees dick forward.

i was initially going to go a zero setback post on the MTB but i am now thinking it is going to be putting me forward too much at least another 16mm (I am using thomson posts) towards the BB.

would it be best from a pedaling/power perspective to have the same distance behind BB on both bikes - thus keeping the leg postion pretty similar maybe just a bit lower on the MTB?

having less distance to the BB will use more of my glutes on the MTB is that correct?

I am thinking that the amount of shifting around etc etc on MTB is going negate some this difference as it is not just sit a spin like the road bike.

Cheers,
Steve

singlespeedscott · Postby **singlespeedscott** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:29 pm

On my mtbs I run the exact same saddle height as my roadie. The top tube of my 29er is longer than those I run on my various road bike. On the road my top tube length is 565mm with a 100mm stem. On the MTB the top tube is 619 with a 80mm stem.

On the dirt you don't have the hoods or drops (unless your running dirt drops) to place your hands on. I guess my MTB handlebar position is inbetween where my flats and hoods are on my roadie. I have found on the dirt you need a compromise between control and being able to stretch my back out.

jacks1071 · Postby **jacks1071** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:48 pm

lemotea wrote:Hi everyone, I haven't done any MTB before. Well ride a cheap MTB but never used for off road and never put an effort for adjusting the saddle for proper height or even the set back. So compare to road bike, how do you adjust your saddle, like are you using the same distance with road bike when you used in on hard trail track and what is the sat back distance from the saddle nose to the bb. And how do you calculate the top tube length compare to road bike as for road bike getting lower is better.

Thanks.

My saddle and reach are identical aside from the seat being 2.5mm lower to account for 175mm cranks on the mtb and 172.5mm on the roadie.

lemotea · Postby **lemotea** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:12 pm

Hi all, thank all for the feedback. So most of you guys said while using MTB you guys moving the saddle further back but lower the saddle height a bit. My I know for what the reason? I found out that by doing that, my body more leaning to the front hence it's not an comfortable position. Is this position used for like doing a hard trail track like many jumping or for what kind of purpose. If you ride on normal road, do you change the saddle position too?

alchemist · Postby **alchemist** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:20 am

Moving the seat back puts more weight over the back wheel, better traction on loose surfaces and also makes it easier to lift the front over obstacles. If you move your seat back it needs to be dropped down to maintain the same leg length to the pedals. On top of this people may drop it a little more to make it easier to move around the bike on rougher trails. For really technical trails this may be as much as 10cm (look at the dropper posts that are available now).

I don't change the position of my saddle for riding on the road or most trails - I may put it down a little bit if there is going to be some extreme "poo stance" action...

lemotea · Postby **lemotea** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:35 pm

I see now, thanks a lot alchemy for the explanation. I'll try it out.

AlMac · Postby **AlMac** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:17 pm

I run my saddle height for the same leg extension on both bikes. But, I'm riding XC on not overly technical trails - and the best place to be is in the saddle. Also, if I crash out generally it's into leaf litter or dust - so relatively comfortable stuff. If I was hammering more downhills or rocking technical trail it'd be a different story, but only by a few cm I suspect.

toolonglegs wrote:For J it is 625mm instead of 552mm, not really sure why but K may explain it.K is 79mm on roadie and 115 on mtb.

My gap isn't quite so big, but the Roadie runs a shorter top tube. Hoods add about 10-15cm forward vs MTB straight bar adding 0cm forward and really a negative as most MTB bars swoop back. Roadie drops stretch you out even further, so if you ran the same top tube as your MTB you'd be stretched to buggery and unable to cruise in the drops. So on the Roadie you really need that shorter top tube.