Why did you quote me and not him? I wasn't the first to mention it.Max wrote:No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO! Please don't turn this into a "steel is real" thread.. we already have one of those (actually, many)!
Mmm tasty new Avanti
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby Nobody » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:20 am
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby MattyK » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:44 pm
Appears to be, look at the small hole at about 11 o'clock above the axle bolt:Max wrote: Hey, I checked out the links that MattyK sent through. I couldn't quite tell if it has pannier mounts at the back. Does anyone know?
Max
And the small silver dot on the seat stay between the tyre and seat post:
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby MattyK » Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:19 pm
http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/08/22/201 ... more-34435
http://www.scott-sports.com/gb_en/produ ... 013/221820
Very similar but with the 8-speed Alfine and the older Gates belt (not the Centre Track)
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby TailWind » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:28 pm
The bike was on display at Ausbike as well - liked the bike, but lamented the lack of the newer tech, i.e. Gates Carbon CenterTrack and Alfine 11.MattyK wrote:Looks like Scott are in the game too:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/08/22/201 ... more-34435
http://www.scott-sports.com/gb_en/produ ... 013/221820
Very similar but with the 8-speed Alfine and the older Gates belt (not the Centre Track)
Hope they are considering an upgrade - would definitely make my potential next commuter list...
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby Crawf » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:38 pm
I wouldn't be so stuck up on the centretrack or no centretrack, it'll still be a sweet ride.
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby MattyK » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:40 pm
You can lament the lack of specs, or you can celebrate the fact it is about $5-600 cheaper.TailWind wrote: The bike was on display at Ausbike as well - liked the bike, but lamented the lack of the newer tech, i.e. Gates Carbon CenterTrack and Alfine 11.
Hope they are considering an upgrade - would definitely make my potential next commuter list...
Crawf - I imagine the biggest benefit of the CenterTrack belt is that it would make "chainline" alignment less critical. But with a straight frame and an EBB this should be moot.
Actually the main benefit (for me) I'd see that puts the Avanti over the Scott is the 5-bolt chainring. There are more ratio options in this size compared to the 4-bolt.
- My chained Nexus hub runs 44/16 = 2.75.
CDC/CDX only has 24T belt sprocket, max 55T 4x104 front ring (2.29)
CenterTrack has a 22T sprocket option, max 5x130 60T ring (2.72 - perfect)
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby Nobody » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:30 pm
Good, I'll be interested to know how far you actually get and if you need any cog replacement after a belt change. Also how much is a new belt?Crawf wrote:Funny how I'm nearing 7000km on my belt with barely a mark on the teeth. The 5000km claim is outright BS.
I wouldn't be so stuck up on the centretrack or no centretrack, it'll still be a sweet ride.
I think the reference for the 5000 Km / 3000 miles was a guy who was riding around the world on one. Maybe he got a lot more dirt etc. Could be bothered looking for the link at the moment.
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby landscapecadmonkey » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:48 pm
Yeah, your probably right, far too optimistic i think. Was half expecting (hoping) that maybe a larger bike co scales of economy would see the sum price of all these funky parts (which are mated to some other lower spec parts), down at a lower entry price point, but thats prob awhile away yet. But, i still think there is potentially a huge market for this set up, as it takes a great deal of the hassle out of maintenance and urban riding, maybe within a year theyll be alot cheaper as an n+1 option for myself.Nobody wrote:Optimistic. The hub itself is about $900 and belt drive setup is about $400. You could be waiting a while.
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby Comedian » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:57 pm
Funny thing is... I'll hang out until they do a carbon version.Cruiserman wrote:Wouldnt waste the bandwidth it is Al and we all know you only ride steel - so until you move into the 20th century it is technologically out of your league.
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby Eberbachl » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:59 pm
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby find_bruce » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:24 am
My initial reaction was that the split frame would be an interesting engineering challenge, but it seems Trek have already done itComedian wrote:Funny thing is... I'll hang out until they do a carbon version.
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/to ... ct_carbon/#
Only US$3,629.99 plus shipping & GST.
Edit: this is for a single speed - you will need to add the IGH
Still if you are spending that kind of bucks, may as well upgrade to a rohloff
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby CommuRider » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:37 am
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby rkelsen » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:50 am
Belt life is often quoted as being in the range of "hundreds of thousands of km."Nobody wrote:5000 Km
Put it this way: How long does a cam belt in a car last?
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby Cruiserman » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:49 am
Even funnier is that the comment was aimed at our Steel is real and you shouldnt ride anything else forumite. CF is the frame material of choice here too. As for cracked rear stays from panniers - what are they that is why we were given a back so we could carry a backpack. Between a backpack and some planning there is very litte to carry each day.Comedian wrote:Funny thing is... I'll hang out until they do a carbon version.Cruiserman wrote:Wouldnt waste the bandwidth it is Al and we all know you only ride steel - so until you move into the 20th century it is technologically out of your league.
1986 Spokesman Model 11 Racing - Campag Nuvo Record - Stronglight - Shimano 600
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby Cruiserman » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:55 am
80 - 120k klms you hope otherwise the cost of replacing it will be multiplied by many times to replace bent valves, damaged pistons as well as a machining of the head, disassembly and reassembly etc. Possibly also the life of a cam belt would be worse than the life of a belt drive for a bike. Oil contamination, startup and shutdown stresses convoluted belt path, heat, coolant spillage, the list goes on. So 5k out of a bike belt and I would be going back to the manufacturer and asking Say What.rkelsen wrote:Belt life is often quoted as being in the range of "hundreds of thousands of km."Nobody wrote:5000 Km
Put it this way: How long does a cam belt in a car last?
1986 Spokesman Model 11 Racing - Campag Nuvo Record - Stronglight - Shimano 600
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby Comedian » Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:56 pm
Ironically it's chains that are used in engines where longevity is sought!Cruiserman wrote:80 - 120k klms you hope otherwise the cost of replacing it will be multiplied by many times to replace bent valves, damaged pistons as well as a machining of the head, disassembly and reassembly etc. Possibly also the life of a cam belt would be worse than the life of a belt drive for a bike. Oil contamination, startup and shutdown stresses convoluted belt path, heat, coolant spillage, the list goes on. So 5k out of a bike belt and I would be going back to the manufacturer and asking WT?.rkelsen wrote:Belt life is often quoted as being in the range of "hundreds of thousands of km."Nobody wrote:5000 Km
Put it this way: How long does a cam belt in a car last?
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby Nobody » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:02 pm
Where have I specifically said that? Everyone has freedom of choice and opinion.Cruiserman wrote:Even funnier is that the comment was aimed at our Steel is real and you shouldnt ride anything else forumite.
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby Nobody » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:05 pm
90-100,000Km for a cam belt typically these days. But that doesn't answer the question of how long a bike one lasts. Got any references on how long a Gates bike belt is supposed to last?rkelsen wrote:Belt life is often quoted as being in the range of "hundreds of thousands of km."Nobody wrote:5000 Km
Put it this way: How long does a cam belt in a car last?
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby CommuRider » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:18 pm
http://www.carbondrivesystems.com/support.php?lang=usWhat is the life of the system?
In laboratory testing, the Carbon Drive System lasts more than twice the life of chain. Chains are often replaced due to stretch and wear rather than actual failure. The Carbon Drive belt does not stretch, so the smooth running performance remains consistent throughout its life. Abrasive environments can accelerate wear of all bike components. For maximum durability, rinse off your belt drive after sandy / gritty ride.
The thing is, how many people here use belt drives? I only know of one. As it's a fairly new thing and uncommon, there isn't a big enough sample to do a proper comparison on wear and tear on belt drives v. chains. Maybe 3 to 5 years down the track when more of us have a belt drive bike to make an adequate comparison.
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby Nobody » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:25 pm
Thanks CR.CommuRider wrote:http://www.carbondrivesystems.com/support.php?lang=usWhat is the life of the system?
In laboratory testing, the Carbon Drive System lasts more than twice the life of chain. Chains are often replaced due to stretch and wear rather than actual failure. The Carbon Drive belt does not stretch, so the smooth running performance remains consistent throughout its life. Abrasive environments can accelerate wear of all bike components. For maximum durability, rinse off your belt drive after sandy / gritty ride.
The thing is, how many people here use belt drives? I only know of one. As it's a fairly new thing and uncommon, there isn't a big enough sample to do a proper comparison on wear and tear on belt drives v. chains. Maybe 3 to 5 years down the track when more of us have a belt drive bike to make an adequate comparison.
If they last twice as long but cost four times as much, it won't be economics that drives the change to this system.
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby CommuRider » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:29 pm
The weight weenies out there sacrifice XXXg for $$$$! So there is definitely a market out there!Nobody wrote: If they last twice as long but cost four times as much, it won't be economics that drives the change to this system.
What is the weight of the Carbon Drive system?
Weights will vary slightly depending on the sizes of the sprockets and length of the belt. For example, a Carbon Drive system setup similar to a chain driven 32/19 single speed ratio weighs:
46 tooth sprocket - 84g
28 tooth sprocket - 74g
122 tooth belt - 82g
TOTAL - 240g
C'mon weight weenies, even a Ti chain is marginally lighter than that.
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby CommuRider » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:47 pm
http://road.cc/content/news/10168-cycle ... aking-bike
So what does a round-the-world record bike look like? Well, a bit dusty and with some odd-looking appendages, but the Travelmaster has seen off its 18,000 miles without major incident. The belt only needed to be changed once during the whole trip, in Perth, and James was really happy with the performance of the drivetrain. The 14-speed Rohloff hub gives a gearing range equivalent to a triple chainset – over 500% – and it doesn't require any lubrication. Getting the belt properly aligned (it's much more critical than with a chain) and tensioned (it requires much more tension to work efficiently) are the main issues, but given that we're seeing plenty of the belts coming through onto production machines now it seems that many manufacturers, Santos included, think the benefits for certain applications outweigh the problems.
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby Nobody » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:31 pm
So I was wrong. That's good to know. Thanks CR.CommuRider wrote:This from 2009
http://road.cc/content/news/10168-cycle ... aking-bike
So what does a round-the-world record bike look like? Well, a bit dusty and with some odd-looking appendages, but the Travelmaster has seen off its 18,000 miles without major incident. The belt only needed to be changed once during the whole trip, in Perth, and James was really happy with the performance of the drivetrain. The 14-speed Rohloff hub gives a gearing range equivalent to a triple chainset – over 500% – and it doesn't require any lubrication. Getting the belt properly aligned (it's much more critical than with a chain) and tensioned (it requires much more tension to work efficiently) are the main issues, but given that we're seeing plenty of the belts coming through onto production machines now it seems that many manufacturers, Santos included, think the benefits for certain applications outweigh the problems.
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby CommuRider » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:37 pm
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Re: Mmm tasty new Avanti
Postby Nobody » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:48 pm
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