NSW Budget: More roads!
- CommuRider
- Posts: 5053
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:16 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby CommuRider » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:28 pm
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby sogood » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:31 pm
Ok. Big city.martinjs wrote:Sorry, can't call Sydney a Mega City, you have to have a population of more than 10million to do that!
Let's hope Aussie cities don't get that big, apparently Melbourne is growing faster then Sydney and will pass it by the end of the decade.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
-
- Posts: 645
- Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:23 pm
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby diggler » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:36 pm
If you want to go point to point, nothing beats a car (or bicycle).
Urban consolidation is a part solution. Allowing bikes on public transport is another part solution. More electric bikes is another part solution (it is unrealistic to expect people to ride bicycles on long, hilly terrain like Sydney).
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby sogood » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:46 pm
Not sure that is the case. The difference b/n our city rail network and other successful ones is one of network pattern. Look at paris and NYC, they have multiple overlapping lines on top of each other, making A-B travel easy. Our network is more like all-roads-lead-to-Rome.diggler wrote:Public transport doesn't work. We have an urban sprawl, not urban consolidation. We have multiple destinations, not everyone going to work in the city.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- Sweeper59
- Posts: 826
- Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:37 pm
- Location: Port Macquarie NSW
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby Sweeper59 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:59 pm
I went one step better and moved to Port Macquarie. Most weekdays usually includes a 40km ride in the the morning, a leisurely breakfast and then a 10 minute trip along the beach road - and still in the office for 8am. Hearing the Sydney traffic reports on the morning radio, or watching the congestion on the evening news always brings a smile to my face. I used to be part of that - now I reckon I've got an extra 15 hours leisure time a week!ShanDog wrote:I did that! I can't tell you how great it feels to sit at home until 15 minutes before work watching how terrible the traffic report is.CommuRider wrote:Can't believe it
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/winners-and-l ... 1jv5f.html
How will upgrading a road tackle congestion?!!!! All roads lead to Rome -erm I mean Sydney. Build more roads! Build more roads! Maybe I should move to within 2kms of my workplace. I can smell traffic from the text.Road users - $6.3 billion is earmarked for road upgrades and to tackle congestion and blackspot problems
Nobody looks back on their life....and remembers the nights they got plenty of sleep !!
-
- Posts: 645
- Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:23 pm
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby diggler » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:46 pm
If you were to build a network like the London underground, it would cost a fortune.sogood wrote:Not sure that is the case. The difference b/n our city rail network and other successful ones is one of network pattern. Look at paris and NYC, they have multiple overlapping lines on top of each other, making A-B travel easy. Our network is more like all-roads-lead-to-Rome.diggler wrote:Public transport doesn't work. We have an urban sprawl, not urban consolidation. We have multiple destinations, not everyone going to work in the city.
I ama amazed that those systems do work. If you were an Aussie parent taking kids to school, go to work, take daughter to ballet, son to rugby practice, play some tennis, do some shopping etc. How can you do all this without a car? I don't have kids myself, but I'm guessing that is what parents do.
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby sogood » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:08 pm
Yep, a cost the state can't afford. And bear in mind that those cities took decades to complete their present network. While here, a single short line can take a decade or two of political and resident bickering. I can't see the future of this.diggler wrote:If you were to build a network like the London underground, it would cost a fortune.
I ama amazed that those systems do work. If you were an Aussie parent taking kids to school, go to work, take daughter to ballet, son to rugby practice, play some tennis, do some shopping etc. How can you do all this without a car? I don't have kids myself, but I'm guessing that is what parents do.
As for children. Yep, with the present school system and extra-curricular activities, it's almost impossible to do without the car.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- Xplora
- Posts: 8272
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:33 am
- Location: TL;DR
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby Xplora » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:59 pm
Either way, Sydney accounts for 20% of the entire country. It is right that our resources, paid for by those 20%, are poured into the city, because Sydney is the population and economic powerhouse for NSW.
We need a vision for the future; as much as I think Clover Moore is probably a twit, she's showing an aggressive vision of what transportation could look like. My local area in Seven Hills and Toongabbie is quite good for cycle commuting. Should more areas be like it?
- wombatK
- Posts: 5612
- Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
- Location: Yagoona, AU
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby wombatK » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:33 pm
1. Our road network is costing an even bigger fortune.diggler wrote: If you were to build a network like the London underground, it would cost a fortune.
I am amazed that those systems do work. If you were an Aussie parent taking kids to school, go to work, take daughter to ballet, son to rugby practice, play some tennis, do some shopping etc. How can you do all this without a car? I don't have kids myself, but I'm guessing that is what parents do.
2. Subways like those in New York and Tokyo work because there is simply no more efficient way to move around vast number of commuters.
3. As for taking kids to school, ballet, rugby etc.,., you have to think back to how working class parents managed from the 1920's through to early 1960's - when many families could not afford a car, and even middle class families could only afford one. Children's sport, schooling, and after school activities were organized on a local basis. Look in cities like Tokyo and Shanghai, and you will see mothers transporting their children on bicycles. Families also did more walking and less TV watching - pretty healthy outcomes.
Billions of people all over the world manage happy lives without cars. We will rediscover their secrets as oil prices and roads congestion persuade us of their unsustainability.
Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
- martinjs
- Posts: 3402
- Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:54 pm
- Location: Fivebough, Leeton
- Contact:
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby martinjs » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:41 pm
Quite true, but the same can be said about bicycles, many parts of the world that don't and cant use bicycles AND don't need them.Billions of people all over the world manage happy lives without cars. We will rediscover their secrets as oil prices and roads congestion persuade us of their unsustainability.
Martin
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby sogood » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:56 pm
Things have changed. A lot of children these days have a far fuller extra-curricular plate than when we went to school. Music, ballet, taekwondo, rowing, public speaking, inter-school competitions and the list goes on. Of course, family can choose to not involve their kids in all these extra-curricular activities like the old days, but time have changed and many families do. A world of new learning opportunities provided by affluence and mobility resources. There'll need to be better options than just bicycles to fulfill these needs.wombatK wrote:3. As for taking kids to school, ballet, rugby etc.,., you have to think back to how working class parents managed from the 1920's through to early 1960's - when many families could not afford a car, and even middle class families could only afford one. Children's sport, schooling, and after school activities were organized on a local basis. Look in cities like Tokyo and Shanghai, and you will see mothers transporting their children on bicycles. Families also did more walking and less TV watching - pretty healthy outcomes.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- martinjs
- Posts: 3402
- Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:54 pm
- Location: Fivebough, Leeton
- Contact:
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby martinjs » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:40 pm
Cycling to those every week if you can.
Martin
- Xplora
- Posts: 8272
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:33 am
- Location: TL;DR
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby Xplora » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:18 pm
You have a seriously distorted view of what a kid NEEDS to do in their spare time. The parents WANT their kid to do all this stupid stuff (because let's face it, how many kids actually have the focus to actually direct their attention to mastering all these activities), and if they can't figure out how to get them to all these without a car, they have to look at themselves - is their self absorbed desire to force their kid to do stuff overtaking a social responsibility to the community? There are few more reviled stereotypes than the soccermum. There is a reason for thatsogood wrote:Things have changed. A lot of children these days have a far fuller extra-curricular plate than when we went to school. Music, ballet, taekwondo, rowing, public speaking, inter-school competitions and the list goes on. Of course, family can choose to not involve their kids in all these extra-curricular activities like the old days, but time have changed and many families do. A world of new learning opportunities provided by affluence and mobility resources. There'll need to be better options than just bicycles to fulfill these needs.wombatK wrote:3. As for taking kids to school, ballet, rugby etc.,., you have to think back to how working class parents managed from the 1920's through to early 1960's - when many families could not afford a car, and even middle class families could only afford one. Children's sport, schooling, and after school activities were organized on a local basis. Look in cities like Tokyo and Shanghai, and you will see mothers transporting their children on bicycles. Families also did more walking and less TV watching - pretty healthy outcomes.
- wombatK
- Posts: 5612
- Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
- Location: Yagoona, AU
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby wombatK » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:08 pm
I just wished that the supermum stereotype was as reviled as the soccermum. The supermum stereotype enslaves women to a high-stress lifestyle vainly trying to emulate the models in glossy magazines, TV and hollywood movies. Equally vainly, women substitute buying things with doing things for their kids, because super-mum must be a bread-winner too and (like dad) has no time for doing things.Xplora wrote: is their self absorbed desire to force their kid to do stuff overtaking a social responsibility to the community? There are few more reviled stereotypes than the soccermum. There is a reason for that
Sadly, maybe the only way women have of liberating these stresses is to live vicariously through their soccer-sons - occasionally the pressures reach breaking point and they explode at the soccer field. Men-folk understand this and have a couple of choices : do something about it, or be reviled by it. Judging by how many families are on the treadmill, the latter is the more popular option.
Taking away some of the supporting techonology, like cheap oil, cars and road infrastructure, might liberate women from this treadmill - far more effectively than anything Germaine Greer managed to achieve.
Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
- Xplora
- Posts: 8272
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:33 am
- Location: TL;DR
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby Xplora » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:16 pm
Man, I sound like Yehuda Moon
-
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:33 pm
- Location: Sydney (Rhodes to City Commuter)
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby Sydguy » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:25 pm
I suspect that we will see a localisation of our economies, as transport becomes more expensive and time consuming people will look to shop/live local. This might be a welcome change from driving an hour to Costco to spend an hour in the queue just to get into the car park...
Your kids can work at local stores, play sport in local teams, cycle to the local school, and who knows there might be more jobs created in the localised economies such that less people have to commute into cities.
In saying that I would not want the cities to die or be less vibrant so a happy middle ground needs to be reached. At present way too many people rely on cars for short trips and commutes where PT is readily available.
JM
- Xplora
- Posts: 8272
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:33 am
- Location: TL;DR
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby Xplora » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:40 pm
- martinjs
- Posts: 3402
- Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:54 pm
- Location: Fivebough, Leeton
- Contact:
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby martinjs » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:07 pm
Great idea, but wait! To work local you need to shop local, we have the situation where I work that people send their kids into our shop to ask for a job.Your kids can work at local stores, play sport in local teams, cycle to the local school, and who knows there might be more jobs created in the localised economies such that less people have to commute into cities.
Only problem with that (remembering that this is a small town) they don't shop here, nor do their parents. They all head of to Griffith which is a 110k round trip or
Wait for it.
They shop on the internet which leads to more "gasp" Trucks on the roads.
Quite ironic if you go back through lots of our threads and see how many of us slam truck drivers and the congestion on the roads.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but we need to all practice what we preach.
Martin
- Xplora
- Posts: 8272
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:33 am
- Location: TL;DR
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby Xplora » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:13 pm
You'd also know that towns like Leeton make up something like only 5-10% of the population, right? I don't think anyone is saying that you shouldn't have a car in Leeton, but maybe the 90++++++% of urban Australians can look at other options? Most people in the city don't have to drive 15 minutes at 100kph to get to a shopping centre of some kindmartinjs wrote:Great idea, but wait! To work local you need to shop local, we have the situation where I work that people send their kids into our shop to ask for a job.Your kids can work at local stores, play sport in local teams, cycle to the local school, and who knows there might be more jobs created in the localised economies such that less people have to commute into cities.
- martinjs
- Posts: 3402
- Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:54 pm
- Location: Fivebough, Leeton
- Contact:
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby martinjs » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:26 am
I know that, but I'm actually agreeing with most of what's being said. Or town's entire CBD is only 3K's from on end to another. Lots of people around here could get away with owning but not using their cars during the week. About 70% of our population is less than 5 k's from most of the CBD and their work but only about 5% walk or cycle to work. Bloody crazy if you ask me.Xplora wrote:You'd also know that towns like Leeton make up something like only 5-10% of the population, right? I don't think anyone is saying that you shouldn't have a car in Leeton, but maybe the 90++++++% of urban Australians can look at other options? Most people in the city don't have to drive 15 minutes at 100kph to get to a shopping centre of some kindmartinjs wrote:Great idea, but wait! To work local you need to shop local, we have the situation where I work that people send their kids into our shop to ask for a job.Your kids can work at local stores, play sport in local teams, cycle to the local school, and who knows there might be more jobs created in the localised economies such that less people have to commute into cities.
I had to go on a call out several months ago and went I my bike, about 2 k's away. The person who came home to let me in drove is 2.5 tonne Landcruiser less than 1/2k home to let me in. Stupid and unnecessary. I'd have to say less people by percentage here commute to work by walking or riding than they do in the city and we are better suited area wise for it.
Martin
-
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:19 pm
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby AdamM » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:26 pm
Funny, I thought the economic powerhouse of NSW was the black stuff being dug out of the ground everywhere EXCEPT Sydney...Xplora wrote:Either way, Sydney accounts for 20% of the entire country. It is right that our resources, paid for by those 20%, are poured into the city, because Sydney is the population and economic powerhouse for NSW.
-
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:33 pm
- Location: Sydney (Rhodes to City Commuter)
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby Sydguy » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:02 pm
Other ways to fund roads can be looked at, etags can be used to charge people for using traffic lights, roundabouts and the list goes on. Small fees per intersection, this would mean people who damage the roads are paying for them.
Basically I am penalised for living in a central location close to work, school, childcare, shops etc... and people who buy large homes in far flung suburbs, drive their cars and have health problems are costing me a fortune.
JM
- Xplora
- Posts: 8272
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:33 am
- Location: TL;DR
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby Xplora » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:55 pm
Mining is only a small part of the money that is collected in taxes that pay for all this stuff. Sydney has a very big chunk of the nation's biggest companies and most employees paying income tax and GST etc. Mining is a big part of our nation's above expectations growth, but there is another 95% of the economy that isn't mining that you need to account for when considering the overall picture. Check the head offices for most of the ASX All Ordinaries. Brisbane. Melbourne. Sydney.AdamM wrote:Funny, I thought the economic powerhouse of NSW was the black stuff being dug out of the ground everywhere EXCEPT Sydney...Xplora wrote:Either way, Sydney accounts for 20% of the entire country. It is right that our resources, paid for by those 20%, are poured into the city, because Sydney is the population and economic powerhouse for NSW.
- Wayfarer
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:39 pm
- Location: SW Sydney
Re: NSW Budget: More roads!
Postby Wayfarer » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:20 pm
Leave this country.Sydguy wrote:Major roads and other infrastructure should be paid for using tolls over a long long term say 50 to 100 years.
Other ways to fund roads can be looked at, etags can be used to charge people for using traffic lights, roundabouts and the list goes on. Small fees per intersection, this would mean people who damage the roads are paying for them.
Basically I am penalised for living in a central location close to work, school, childcare, shops etc... and people who buy large homes in far flung suburbs, drive their cars and have health problems are costing me a fortune.
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.