Racing result would you leave this rest

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Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:57 pm

Hi appoligies if this is a bit long but just wanted to see what other think about this,
Had a race the other weekend it was an open race not just a club race, long story short as I crossed the line I was sure I had won but on returning to the desk my name was not up on the board, I told the registation desk that I had won the race and if I didn't I must of come 2nd but my name was not even in the top 5 places, I asked for a photo but they did not have any. I was pissed off so I left only when I got home I found on the net photos of the finish and it clearly shows the result and yes, it shows me crossing the line in first if not second. I emailed the club with this and to there credit they agreed that they had stuffed up but there was nothing they could do, as I did not fill out a complaint form pay the fee all within 15min of the race finish, even if I did do all that what chance did I have in getting the result changed as no finish line official had even seen me "bit hard as i am 98kg and 6'2" built like a giant in comparison to the other riders and the final say would of come down to an official "remember that they did not even see me and there were no photos"still the club will not give me a satifactory answer, if this was a club race I would just let it go but it was an open, just asking for your opinion, the club that put this event on is my club and do a great job but how could they get it so wrong and why would they not do anythig to rectify this even after having proof.
By the way it was the best race of my life one of thoes races that go totally to plan and it paid off only to be total shot down after no one saw me
Sorry about the winge but had to get it off my chest
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by BNA » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:24 pm

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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby fringe_dweller » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:24 pm

Almost always best to leave things be, you're not going to get far by arguing. You know that you won, and that in itself is an achievement - ask yourself if it will really matter a year from now.

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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby Drunkmonkey » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:29 pm

invisable wrote:Hi appoligies if this is a bit long but just wanted to see what other think about this,
Had a race the other weekend it was an open race not just a club race, long story short as I crossed the line I was sure I had won but on returning to the desk my name was not up on the board, I told the registation desk that I had won the race and if I didn't I must of come 2nd but my name was not even in the top 5 places, I asked for a photo but they did not have any. I was pissed off so I left only when I got home I found on the net photos of the finish and it clearly shows the result and yes, it shows me crossing the line in first if not second. I emailed the club with this and to there credit they agreed that they had stuffed up but there was nothing they could do, as I did not fill out a complaint form pay the fee all within 15min of the race finish, even if I did do all that what chance did I have in getting the result changed as no finish line official had even seen me "bit hard as i am 98kg and 6'2" built like a giant in comparison to the other riders and the final say would of come down to an official "remember that they did not even see me and there were no photos"still the club will not give me a satifactory answer, if this was a club race I would just let it go but it was an open, just asking for your opinion, the club that put this event on is my club and do a great job but how could they get it so wrong and why would they not do anythig to rectify this even after having proof.
By the way it was the best race of my life one of thoes races that go totally to plan and it paid off only to be total shot down after no one saw me
Sorry about the winge but had to get it off my chest


I know how this sort of situation feels - but nothing can change it now. They could do something if they wanted to, but it sounds like they dont care. If they did care they would have taken the finish of the race seriously in the first place, i find it hard to believe the official didnt see you.

Time to change clubs methinks - and avoid meetings disorganised by this club :mrgreen:

best revenge is to to get win on the board agaisnt this club with your new club :mrgreen:
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby winstonw » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:32 pm

Sad to say the officials in the main club near me are very human and have their favorites they look after.
I've seen similar stuff ups at local races - bells being rung when they shouldn't and clear finish order got wrong.
At the end of the day, it's amateur hour, often run by small fish in small ponds.
Using a video camera for finishes isn't a big deal to anyone with a bit of sense.
Guess you'll just have to wait until your officials develop that insight.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:43 pm

Drunkmonkey wrote:best revenge is to to get win on the board agaisnt this club with your new club

Thats what I was thinking after I seteled down, the main reason I was so pissed off was that I had trained for this race and it was my first win :shock:

winstonw wrote:and have their favorites they look after

yes I had that thourght as well, I am only new at the club and dont know many there, I did tell my story to my LBS and the first thing he said was "sounds like they wanted there mate to win, this is why I dont race with a club because of all the crap that goes on"

makes me feel a bit better to know that this thing goes no elsewere "as thay say if it wasn't for bad luck I would not have any luck at all
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:59 pm

Being a similar size and even a bit taller....I find it VERY hard to believe that they missed you in a sprint...especially as you would have been in their/your club colours!.
A bit of politics at play me thinks!.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:52 am

toolonglegs wrote:A bit of politics at play me thinks!.


What! politiicans would not rig the outcome of an event would they :shock: :mrgreen:
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:07 am

Your mistake was not insisting on the claim for first or second immediately after the race. Was your race number clearly visible?
When a claim is made that is at odds with the recorded finish order, they usually get the other riders in to validate.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby mezla » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:16 am

Name and shame both the club and the the person(s) responsible for what amounts to blatant lying and cheating. Disgusting behaviour should not go without consequences, and the best you can do is let people know... if you have the gumption to deal with the resulting blowback, :evil:
Last edited by mezla on Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:29 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Your mistake was not insisting on the claim for first or second immediately after the race. Was your race number clearly visible?


I thorght that but my number was not obstructed in any way, I did insist on my claim but as I said it is hard to argue when you were not even seen. I might have had a chance if I was on the board but not in the right order

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:When a claim is made that is at odds with the recorded finish order, they usually get the other riders in to validate


As for the othe riders it was a close finish and there was one other claiming the win and he had a lot of support by the other riders they all finished on the left and I was on the far right because I came around the outside, the riders would not of seen me as they would of been to busy ,as there was no photo or proof I could of stood there jumping up and down but it still would of come to the officials call, not a chance, as even the other guy who was claiming the win with the support of about 3 other riders still didn't get the result changed.

I know now why they do the wanky victory solute when they cross the line its not that they are happy they won it is to make sure they see you, :lol:
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby nyeholt » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:16 pm

Post the photos?
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:28 am

nyeholt wrote:Post the photos?


Hi
Photos are on Ernie Smith web site "southern hem cup" *IMG0840_00603, IMG0840_00603, IMG0840_00603
see what you think, as I said if I wasn't the first past the line should have got 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th but not to be seen. Have been doing a lot of investigation into this and situations like this and have found out that a lot of this goes on, and the answer I keep getting is that it is a bit of mates rates going on, Didn't think this sort of stuff would be a problem at this level but apparently it is. Even in a race where if you cross the line first it still comes down to the old saying "its who you know, not what you know" anyway just an up date the club has still not gave me an satisfactory answer basicly just tring to justify there actions, no action to rectify the outcome or give me any reconitiong of my result.
sorry about the winge again "I RELLY NEED TO LET THIS GO :roll: "
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby ozdavo » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:55 am

invisable wrote:
nyeholt wrote:Post the photos?


Hi
Photos are on Ernie Smith web site "southern hem cup" *IMG0840_00603, IMG0840_00603, IMG0840_00603
see what you think,"

I don't know which is you, but Img0840_667_thm.jpg looks to clearly show the winner. Am I missing something? 603 doesn't look to show the end of the race?
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:02 am

Sorry just read through my post, I should of said it was a graded race, the photos I listed was the finish of my race the 3 to 4 guys if front in the photos I listed are A Grade they had a couple of laps to go, I am the rider in the black and yellow on the right of the track "left looking at the photo" also dont know what went wrong but photo list should of read IMG0840_00602, IMG0840_00603, IMG08840_00604
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:24 am

hey my daughter just pointed something out. The week before the race I bought a legacy band and it is camiflarged "same as the livestrong bands", I was wearing it on the day of the race, thats why no one saw me, so it was my fault all along :lol:
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby Redbull » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:34 pm

Looks like the guy in black gets the win and you are looking about 3 or 4.

Its actually a tough call at the end of the race, especially if there are two grades finishing at the same time. Try it some time, to find and remember the numbers of the first 5 finishers in a tight race - its hard. That's why our club is going to transponders.

It is probably an honest mistake.

You should also claim your place if racing is tight.

By the way in our club taking your hands off the bars at the finish is a DQ. Does this not happen at other clubs?
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:58 pm

Redbull wrote:Looks like the guy in black gets the win and you are looking about 3 or 4.

Its actually a tough call at the end of the race, especially if there are two grades finishing at the same time. Try it some time, to find and remember the numbers of the first 5 finishers in a tight race - its hard. That's why our club is going to transponders.

It is probably an honest mistake.

You should also claim your place if racing is tight.

By the way in our club taking your hands off the bars at the finish is a DQ. Does this not happen at other clubs?


you are looking at the wrong photo you need to look at photos IMG0840_00602, IMG0840_00603, IMG08840_00604 at ernie smith web site , I did claim my place but what chance did I have if no one even saw me let alown trying to claim a place, and they dont have any photos of the finish, as for tranponders I did mention this to them and they refuse to use them even just for the open events, dont know why they just said they wont use them, am only new to this but as far as I know it is a no no to take your hands off the bars but I think in this club anything goes from my dealings in the past
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby trailgumby » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:18 pm

It's not just bike racing that suffers this problem. The 1/8 scale R/C car world champs in France in I think 1982 had the same problem when the track owner wanted to award the race to a French driver when another nationality won it.

The result was the development of race transponder systems by AMB i.t. These are now used in al sorts of sports from r/c cars to F1, go-karts and bicycle races. The systems are now quite cheap, and our own BNA member Alycat has written a race management system for these transponders.

Forget this sort of amateur hour - go to a club that uses transponders, and buy your own. I'd also recommend using a Garmin and recording all your races with it. Besides providing useful training info, it also helps provide backup to settle this kind of argument.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby invisable » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:46 pm

trailgumby wrote:Forget this sort of amateur hour - go to a club that uses transponders, and buy your own. I'd also recommend using a Garmin and recording all your races with it. Besides providing useful training info, it also helps provide backup to settle this kind of argument.


After all the info and the responce I have been getting off people I will be taking your advice. I would not of mind if it was a club race but being an open NSW Cycling event I would of thourght that some sort of finish line recording "photo, transponder etc" would of been needed by regulations, it is not a hard thing to set up.

So a new club for me, can anyone recomend any out west "by the way I plan to go back next year and take that race riding for my new club " :twisted:
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby nyeholt » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:32 pm

Redbull wrote:Looks like the guy in black gets the win and you are looking about 3 or 4.

Its actually a tough call at the end of the race, especially if there are two grades finishing at the same time. Try it some time, to find and remember the numbers of the first 5 finishers in a tight race - its hard. That's why our club is going to transponders.

It is probably an honest mistake.


Yeah, from this photo it looks like there's about 8 guys all within a bike length of each other (I'm referring to the guys who are just crossing the line in the background). That'd be close to impossible to pick out who won unless you had a replay - good luck to anyone doing it by sight in realtime, especially if they're spread out across the road. I think in this case unless another rider calls you as the winner, you just gotta suck it up.
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby stevecassidy » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:41 pm

Well, I can't comment on this particular race since I missed it, but this is the club I race with pretty much every week. I'd have to say that in my experience the volunteers who run these races do the best they can and I've never seen any kind of favouritism towards club members or others. The finish is usually looked over by whoever's standing near the line as spotters and they try to agree on who got the places. If you claim your place on the line you'll be heard, and they'll try to work it out amicably.

I've missed out on a place I thought I got in a similar situation when our finish was mixed up with another bunch in front of us, I could have argued but really it was an honest mistake in a difficult situation.

Sure, transponders would be nice and I don't know the reasons the club doesn't use them, but I can imagine it has to do with the cost and the fact that the number of disputes about places is very small.

So I hope you come and race with us again, don't let one experience like this put you off.

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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby trailgumby » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:01 pm

actually, i'm going to backtrack a little... seeing the photo, it would be easy to miss a competitor, especially across the other side from the main bunch.

however, that just reinforces the case for transponders. No reason not to use them. If the club is worried about losing some, they just need to charge a refundable transponder deposit and regular competitors buy their own. Yes its extra work, but less hassle than arguments over finishing times and, from my experience, so much easier to work with than manual timekeeping

Cost is minimal, and if competitors have their own, no cost to the club and maybe even a chance to add a little "administrative overhead" margin. Race management software is cheap. If you use transponders, it's much more professional and you could probably up your race fees a little and the more accurate timekeeping would justify it.

If blokes racing toy cars can do it (as they have been for 20+ years), there's no reason folks on much more expensive carbon fibre bikes can't do it too. Seriously, it's not hard. :|
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:11 pm

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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby trickle » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:14 pm

I've actually been on the other end of this scenario. I was awarded a podium spot that I knew I had missed, admittedly by mm's... the 'coms called my name out and I corrected them and pointed out the rightful place getter. The 'com says "really? are you sure you didn't place?"

He was genuinely surprised that I passed the podium spot up!
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Re: Racing result would you leave this rest

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:10 am

Surprised they didn't disqualify the winner for taking his hands off the bars :P .
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