different spokes in wheel, issues?

eeksll
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different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby eeksll » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:59 pm

hello shed heads, just wandering if its an overly big issue to have 2 different spokes in a set of wheels.

I have some wheels with bladed spokes, 2 broke and they have been replaced with a normal round spokes. One of the round ones snapped and had it replaced with another round one.

Is this going to cause any structural issues? e.g. more likely to have a spoke broken in future?

I thought now would be a good time to get the LBS to order in the spokes and get them fixed if its going to be an issue, so I could have a 1 day turn around time as opposed to waiting when something does break ....

rustychisel
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby rustychisel » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:26 pm

It's an imponderable, I'm afraid.

When a wheel starts breaking spokes then it'll probably go on happening, until you have the whole wheel rebuilt from scratch. Unless you're lucky with tensions etc etc.

There's no real issue with bladed or non-bladed spokes, per se. You don't give much away, such as wheel type, number of spokes, bladed type (Hoshi, drive side rear, perchance?) etc, but you should be okay to combine them for a cheap solution though it may not be ideal. Try to match the gauge; 14g, 15g. Possibly the round spoke snapped because the wheel was brought up to tension improperly, perhaps it needed to be overtensioned to bring the wheel to true; there may be other reasons.

eeksll
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby eeksll » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:56 pm

probably should have mentioned the type of wheel.

They are DT Swiss RR 1450 (not the tricon ones 2009-2010) 28 spokes on the rear (and 28 spokes on the front).

Also does a rebuild require new spokes? or are the old ones reused? I was quoted $12.50 a spoke :shock:. DT Aerolite spokes

Mark Kelly
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby Mark Kelly » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:18 pm

eeksll wrote: I was quoted $12.50 a spoke :shock:. DT Aerolite spokes


Starbike.com has Sapim CXRays for 2 euro each. There's basically no difference between Aerolites and CXRays. Shipping is about EU30 so it's not economical to do a few spokes but if you are doing a wheel or two (or more) it's a no-brainer. They also have V. good prices on Conti tyres etc.

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mekore
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby mekore » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:05 am

consult the old & trusty Jobst Brandt for wheels :D

http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/reusing-spokes.html

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ZepinAtor
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby ZepinAtor » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:24 am

eeksll wrote:probably should have mentioned the type of wheel.

They are DT Swiss RR 1450 (not the tricon ones 2009-2010) 28 spokes on the rear (and 28 spokes on the front).

Also does a rebuild require new spokes? or are the old ones reused? I was quoted $12.50 a spoke :shock:. DT Aerolite spokes


I can send you C-xray spokes for $6.00 each if you want to rebuild the entire wheel. I wouldn't count on a re-spoke solving your problem either, as the rim may have turned to butter from prolonged use/ abuse.
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master6
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby master6 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:21 am

If it is only an "issue", pedal on.

If it is a problem, go on.

eeksll
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby eeksll » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:55 am

the wheel is second hand. It was sold to me with the 2 replaced spokes already. So the actual history of the wheel is a mystery to me.

I was not informed at the time of the broken spoke and all i was really told was it was true and not done many kms. But oh well, live and learn.

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MichaelB
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby MichaelB » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:23 am

eeksll wrote:the wheel is second hand. It was sold to me with the 2 replaced spokes already. So the actual history of the wheel is a mystery to me.

I was not informed at the time of the broken spoke and all i was really told was it was true and not done many kms. But oh well, live and learn.


Sounds like a trustworthy seller :roll:

What to do depends on how much you use them and whether you have spares (wheels) or not.

Depends also on your budget.

eeksll
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby eeksll » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:43 am

ZepinAtor wrote:I wouldn't count on a re-spoke solving your problem either, as the rim may have turned to butter from prolonged use/ abuse.


Is this something that can be found out either by me or an LBS?

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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:56 am

Check carefully around each spoke hole for any signs of cracking or buckling and examine the brake track, it should not be concave.
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ZepinAtor
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby ZepinAtor » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:13 am

eeksll wrote:
ZepinAtor wrote:I wouldn't count on a re-spoke solving your problem either, as the rim may have turned to butter from prolonged use/ abuse.


Is this something that can be found out either by me or an LBS?


Breaking spokes can be caused by a number of issues. Usually excessive tension on a spoke will lead to it breaking. The question is why.

If you go for a re-spoke hold the rim against another perfectly true flat wheel & do a comparison.

If the rim is in & out or up & down more than a couple of mm then I'd suggest the rim has had a big hit & has needed to have excessive tension on one area to bring it back into line.

If the rim is nice & flat then it could have just been a poorly built or tensioned wheel in need of some maintenance.

Maybe try replacing the spokes with the same type. Then find a GOOD wheel builder & slacken off all the spokes & start again.
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby jacks1071 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:24 am

eeksll wrote:hello shed heads, just wandering if its an overly big issue to have 2 different spokes in a set of wheels.

I have some wheels with bladed spokes, 2 broke and they have been replaced with a normal round spokes. One of the round ones snapped and had it replaced with another round one.

Is this going to cause any structural issues? e.g. more likely to have a spoke broken in future?

I thought now would be a good time to get the LBS to order in the spokes and get them fixed if its going to be an issue, so I could have a 1 day turn around time as opposed to waiting when something does break ....


If you want it to be reliable at this point I'd ask the shop to replace your odd spokes with genuine units, and re-build the wheel which means take all the tension out of it, then evenly re-tension it. Check that the rim isn't bent before they re-tension.

Using odd spokes isn't necessarily a problem but you might find that the replacement spoke might be more weak than the standard spokes - in which case it'll always be a point of failure.
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jules21
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby jules21 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:38 am

ZepinAtor wrote:Breaking spokes can be caused by a number of issues. Usually excessive tension on a spoke will lead to it breaking.

that's been my experience. i started breaking spokes once after doing a poor job of trueing a wheel. a quick inspection (just flex two spokes that cross eachother and feel the tension) revealed overtensioning. after i loosened them a bit i never had another problem. you can usually feel if the spokes are overtensioned - it isn't rocket surgery.

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rkelsen
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby rkelsen » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:49 am

ZepinAtor wrote:Breaking spokes can be caused by a number of issues. Usually excessive tension on a spoke will lead to it breaking. The question is why.

Up until recently, I was frequently breaking spokes. It happened on 3 different wheelsets on 2 different bikes, despite all of them coming with an "Unbustable" recommendation from one source or another. I was even busting them on my commuter, which has 36 spoke wheels...

I have since learned a thing or two about tyre pressures. There is a chart which is frequently posted here and elsewhere which makes 'recommendations' about tyre pressures for your weight. In my case, it was wrong. Very wrong.

I've found that dropping pressures on both bikes has helped dramatically. On the roady, I see absolutely no reason to go higher than 100psi. On the commuter, I run 60psi. It has now been 3 months and about 2,500km since I last busted a spoke, and I ain't lookin' back.

For the record, up to that point I had replaced 3 rear spokes in a set of 'unbustable' Fulcrum 7s, and 19 rear spokes in my commuter...

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jules21
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby jules21 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:52 am

also, the type of spoke, or mixing spoke types, will make no difference. the wheel only "feels" the pulling force of the spoke - that is purely down to spoke tension, not spoke type. some spokes might be stronger than others, but a properly built wheel shouldn't be imposing forces high enough to break spokes, under normal service conditions.

eeksll
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby eeksll » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:47 pm

I have had the wheels about 6 months, before the spoke broke. It was the first ride after a month of not riding it (probably longest it has ever been not ridden) and I am pretty sure the spoke popped in the shed after cause there was significant rim/brake rub.

When I got the wheels I did a thorough examination (with my limited knowledge and experience) The rims brake surface did look quite new and all the spokes seemed to have about the same tension (unlike one of the other wheels that I have). The stickers looked awfully worn, almost like the brakes where on them for a bit.

I run about 80 psi on the back and a tad less on the front. I am 80kg and when I stand a ride I can see the front tyre squashing quite flat/wide I dont know what the back tyre would look like :shock:

Don't really have a spare wheelset, I could swap the cassette off the commuter, but the last time I was going to head out for a road ride and I had the broken spoke, I decided to go on the MTB instead.

Thanks for the replies, Ill see what Mr LBS has to say.

eeksll
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby eeksll » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:12 pm

rang the LBS this morning, I asked them if it was possible to check the wheel for any issues cause I got them second hand (that was about the extent of what I said, I didn't go into what was discussed above) and

the reply I got was: they should be able to tell from the normal truing service if a spoke was about to break (something along those lines).

hmm now I am a bit unsure of what to do.

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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby ZepinAtor » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:30 pm

I have an awesome set of wheels for sale. 32 spoke 3 cross with C-xray spokes on White Industries hubs & Kinlin 30mm rims. Bullet proof, smooth, lightish 1400g, reasonably priced $950 ? & very very silver.
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eeksll
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Re: different spokes in wheel, issues?

Postby eeksll » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:50 pm

thanks, but I havent given up on my wheels yet :). I just wanted confirmation they where ok (still pondering this), but either way time will tell ... when/if I break a few more spokes.

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