Dangerous Riding - definition

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Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby ft_critical » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:02 am

This is about Racing not bunch riding.
Over the weekend a rider came off the wheel he was on and suddenly cut across me nearly taking off my front wheel. Close enough for me to brake and to scare the … out of me.
In a pairs bunch life is pretty easy. In this case I was rolling a line of riders up the outside of the pack who were about 4 to 5 wide.
I observed this same rider do a similar maneuver twice, once cutting across the off line (rolling back from the front) and once into a small half gap (forcing the trailing rider to brake) and the continuing up making his own channel. In short very aggressive riding and in my opinion on the borderline of dangerous riding. BTW, this is not the same as riding someone off a wheel, which is an aggressive but predictable merge. I mean suddenly changing direction with no regard to those around you relying on no more than your perception.
You can lodge a complaint for dangerous riding, which I didn’t bother with, but then I wondered what defined dangerous riding and consequently, how you were supposed to race in the pack. I had a look at Cycling NSW and it is all a bit vague. The only semi-clear rules pertain to sprinting, stay on the line which is parallel to the side of the road.
Anyway, common sense (misnomer that it is) would suggest that before you change lines/directions in the pack you need to look over your shoulder or under your arm or at least look for a shadow…
Has anyone seen any rules or guidelines from cycling AU, UCI or any other body?

Cycling NSW Tech Regs wrote:A competitor who rides or acts in a manner considered to be dangerous or detrimental to other competitors or the public may be penalised A competitor who pushes or pulls another competitor, or interferes with the progress of another competitor, may be penalised including the risk of disqualification.

Riders must ride a parallel course to the shoulder/edge of the road surface. Failure to do so may incur a penalty.
gg) It shall be an offence to leave the sealed portion of the carriageway to gain an advantage. A rider who leaves the road surface must cease to sprint.
Last edited by ft_critical on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by BNA » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:17 am

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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby skull » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:17 am

Just yell at them letting them know they are riding like rubbish. Then tell inform them what they should be doing.

On that who here watched the Jayco Herald Sun tour crit on sunday and saw the boys in the break away having a good talking to Von Hof.
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby Daccordi Rider » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:03 pm

I'm with Skull, try to handle it internally first, as per the Jayco Crit the pro's certainly let anyone know who is not pulling their weight or endangering others. You will probably find everyone else is thinking the same and will appreciate you stepping up to the plate.
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby ft_critical » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:23 pm

Daccordi Rider wrote:I'm with Skull, try to handle it internally first


This is more about are there any rules or guidelines. Understand the patron of the peleton thing.
So I did find some better quality defintions at USA Cycling e.g., 106 below. I think this should augment the usual riders (and our tech regs too) briefing where only the sprint is covered, because that is all that is in the NSW (AUST) technical regulations...

usacycling.org, rules wrote:1O5. Abuse.
(a) No rider or licensee may be disrespectful toward organizers, officials, riders or spectators [warning for minor offense; possible relegation of rider; and/or up to a $50 fine].
(b) No rider or licensee may use foul or abusive language or conduct during a race event [disqualification and 15 days suspension].
(c) No licensee may assault (an unlawful attempt, coupled with the present ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another) or do battery (any willful and unlawful use of force or violence upon the person of another) to anyone connected with any event (including but not limited to riders, officials, spectators, public officials, etc...) held under a USA Cycling permit. [disqualified from the event, prohibited from participating in another event for 72 hours & suspended for up to one (1) year after due process]
1O6. No rider may make an abrupt motion so as to interfere with the forward progress of another rider, either intentionally or by accident [relegation or disqualification; possible 20 days suspension if a crash results].
1O7. Dangerous Rider. Any rider who appears to present a danger to the other competitors may be disqualified by the Chief Referee, either before or during a race.
1O8. Pushing or pulling among riders is prohibited in all races except the Madison and then only between members of the same team. No rider may hold back or pull an opponent by any part of his or her clothing, equipment or body [relegation or disqualification].
1O9. Competitors may make no progress unaccompanied by a bicycle [relegation or disqualification]. In the case of a crash, they may run with their bicycles to the finish line, staying on the course.
1O10. A licensee may be penalized for causing a crash or spill through inadequate tightening or adjustment of a bicycle component, including gluing of tires [any or all of the following: disqualification, $75 fine, 10 days suspension].
1O11. Non-Competitor on Course. A rider may not be on the track or course during a race for which he or she has not entered and registered, or from which he or she has withdrawn or been directed to withdraw [relegation or disqualification if entered in another race in the event for which the results are not yet final; 10 days suspension if flagrant].
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby jules21 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:33 pm

skull wrote:On that who here watched the Jayco Herald Sun tour crit on sunday and saw the boys in the break away having a good talking to Von Hof.

not for dangerous riding though i think, but for not working. i believe he was policing it.
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby skull » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:04 pm

Yeah I wasn't sure what it was for, was he dogging in the break away?
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby jules21 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:08 pm

i think that's what the commentators said - i can't remember who for, as he is their sprinter. it might have been to protect nathan haas' GC lead.
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby Daccordi Rider » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:54 am

http://ahvcc.businesscatalyst.com/Site% ... 0Rules.pdf

These are the rules we race under in SA Vets racing, all pretty unclear, just mentions dangerous riding and maintaining your line in a sprint. So it seems to be at the referees discretion.
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby ft_critical » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:33 am

Thanks, yes I saw the SV rules. Most take their rules from the Tech Regs which are not clear enough IMO. I did recently write to CNSW about this.

I thought TLL might post the French Regs - translated by his wife of course - for us....
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby sogood » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:41 am

Too many "dangerous' maneuverers that are hard to define and police. So unless you are racing for $1M prize money, choose your racing bunch wisely and sort out problems with a yell. Otherwise seen plenty of physical altercations around the race track.
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby jules21 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:47 am

sogood wrote: Otherwise seen plenty of physical altercations around the race track.

really?

i will always remember my first race, as a rake-thin teenager. i rode out 25 km to VFL park in Waverley (Mel) and rolled around the track for a reccy, at walking pace-ish. this group of riders came past on a brisk warm-up lap and one of them decided it was necessary to yell out "learn to ride you sea monster, or don't come back!" nice.

i never saw any fights though.
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby twizzle » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:58 am

I wonder what word you have to use to get "sea monster"... :) But re. original question, take it up with the commissaire and get them to read the riot act.


Doesn't it suck that Idiots like that are usually the ones who don't come down when they take someones wheel out?
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby ft_critical » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:47 pm

twizzle wrote:take it up with the commissaire and get them to read the riot act.


I took it up with Cycling NSW instead. No response yet.

I would like to see rule 106 in Cycling Aust rules.
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby toppity » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:33 am

jules21 wrote:
sogood wrote: Otherwise seen plenty of physical altercations around the race track.

really?

i will always remember my first race, as a rake-thin teenager. i rode out 25 km to VFL park in Waverley (Mel) and rolled around the track for a reccy, at walking pace-ish. this group of riders came past on a brisk warm-up lap and one of them decided it was necessary to yell out "learn to ride you sea monster, or don't come back!" nice.

i never saw any fights though.


Sounds like we used to race at about the same time with the same club Jules. VFL park, Dunlop Road, Pakenham Handicaps. Hard but tough racing. They used to get massive fields of quality guys at VFL park, but I never remember seeing any trouble.
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby dobby » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:50 am

There was nothing "wrong" with how Von Hoff rode in the JHSun crit - it was no different to Cadel getting admonished in the mtn stages of this years TdF - there is no obligation for Von Hoff to "pull" as was there no compulson for Evans to pull for Brothers Schleck.

Von Hoff was in the break away to protect his team members overall hold on the GC classification - I think the "abuse" from the other members in the breakaway shows that Von Hoff was doing exactly as he should have been at that time - riding for his team.

Taking turns in a race situation is different to taking turns in a club training ride - if you don't take your turns in a club training ride you are being lazy - if you don't take turns in a race (where you specifically don't need to) - you are riding smart.
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby skull » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:12 pm

never said he was doing anything wrong you race your own race. I was commenting on how the others gave him a talking too.
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby skull » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:00 pm

twizzle wrote: get them to read the riot act.

Someone made mention of the riot act on a ride this weekend in regard to bunch etiquette. I have never heard of it before in relation to cycling
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Re: Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:00 pm

dobby wrote:There was nothing "wrong" with how Von Hoff rode in the JHSun crit - it was no different to Cadel getting admonished in the mtn stages of this years TdF - there is no obligation for Von Hoff to "pull" as was there no compulson for Evans to pull for Brothers Schleck.

Von Hoff was in the break away to protect his team members overall hold on the GC classification - I think the "abuse" from the other members in the breakaway shows that Von Hoff was doing exactly as he should have been at that time - riding for his team.

Taking turns in a race situation is different to taking turns in a club training ride - if you don't take your turns in a club training ride you are being lazy - if you don't take turns in a race (where you specifically don't need to) - you are riding smart.


I agree with you here Dobby, whole heartedly. :)

If you don't pull your weight in training, then you're just a lazy sod and won't get much out of it! :wink:

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Dangerous Riding - definition

Postby toolonglegs » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:05 pm

I wouldn't know where to start looking here for rules... French are a pretty vocal lot and you get put in your place very quickly if you put a foot wrong somewhere.
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