Legal & effortless eBike?

Positive discussion on ebikes and pedal assist bicycles

Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby SteveAndBelle » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:37 am

No such thing I'm sure however my main aim is to custom build an eBike to get me to work without breaking a sweat even during a stinky sticky hot Brisbane Summer so I can avoid the whole showering hassle once I get there. The routes I can take on the 12.5km journey into the city include bursts of road but also some very decent runs of dedicated bike path so I'd like to keep the peace with the elite lycra set and just flow along with everyone else as much as possible. Problem is that which ever way I decide to go I have some large hills to climb and after recently building up a cheap & dodgy yet very capable prototype I quickly realised that even the most efficient & effective 200W motor setup will still result in me turning up to work drenched in sweat. Most people sweat standing still here in Summer so this may be an impossibility... but I'm willing to try.

Realising that the law is downright ridiculous for this scenario I'm willing to try to softly break it and just pay the concequences if caught. I see dozens of Lycra clad road cyclists on their 'look-at-me' fancy bikes run red lights on a daily basis (something I consider to be far more dangerous) and they never seem to care or get caught so I can't see why I shouldn't be able to break the law too. I really feel for the law abiding cyclists (Lycra clad or otherwise) who stop at all the red lights and shake their heads in disgust at those other red-light runners. Props to you guys BIG time!

My current cheap & dodgy prototype is based in a 350W Chinese mid-mount kit purchased off eBay. It's a heavy bike (pushing 30kgs) and I'm a heavy guy (93kgs) but I've managed to get it up to 47.5kph on the flat without pedalling at all. Pretty cool I thought but I obviously don't need or even want to do those speeds on my daily commute so apart from building up a fixie with an appropriate gear ratio is there any way I can limit the speed electronically? I've had a fair bit of experience with Radio Control electronics and have used USB programmable ESCs in some of my cars allowing the user to adjust acceleration curves & limit current and all sorts of crazy things. Is there anything similar in the eBike world? Does anyone else have any 'positive' suggestions to the dilemma??
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by BNA » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:40 am

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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby cachexian » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:40 am

Modest increase in voltage will increase the rotational speed of your motor.
Increase the size of the sprocket on the motor and decrease the size of the sprocket on the pedals to turn the increased motor speed into increased power.

If you've been into RC you've prob got some NiMH batteries lying around - you can parallel them to create a pack and then connect it in series to your controller. Just check the ratings of the capacitors in the controller to ensure that you don't take the voltage over their rated limit.

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and...
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby trailgumby » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:23 am

SteveAndBelle wrote:Realising that the law is downright ridiculous for this scenario I'm willing to try to softly break it and just pay the concequences if caught. I see dozens of Lycra clad road cyclists on their 'look-at-me' fancy bikes run red lights on a daily basis (something I consider to be far more dangerous) and they never seem to care or get caught so I can't see why I shouldn't be able to break the law too.

Congratulations. You've just started down a slippery slope. People shoplift all the time too. Why don't you have a crack at that while you're at it? "Oh, look he got away wth being stupid. Cool, I can be stupid too!" :roll:

If this is your thinking process, it is unsurprising that you are overweight.

The whole point of having a bike is to build exercise into daily activity, not get you out of it. Getting exercise necessarily involves getting sweaty, either a little or a lot. Even walking gets you sweaty. If you want to avoid that, get a motorbike... but don't complain that you look like the Michelin Man, your heart is weak and your arteries are clogged, because you made the choices that got you there.

Choices have consequences. You don't get to choose those consequences, that's not the way it works. So make your choices wisely.
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby Queestce » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:42 pm

Above post seems a bit harsh, but is a valid truth. Why do you want to buy a bike you don't have to pedal?... Buy a 50cc scooter... Electric bikes are silly, and breaking the (agreeably ridicules) laws in order to pump out that little bit more when you can just buy a vehicle purpose made for riding with an engine seems somewhat futile.
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby SteveAndBelle » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:51 am

Thanks for your positive input... but time for some of you to chill out a bit methinks, sheesh :)

I think I'll stick to my original plan and just figure it out myself.
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby wombatK » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:30 am

SteveAndBelle wrote: It's a heavy bike (pushing 30kgs) and I'm a heavy guy (93kgs) but I've managed to get it up to 47.5kph on the flat without pedalling at all. Pretty cool... ?

Yeah right, 123 kg x 47.5 kph hitting a 60 kg pedestrian. Have you thought about the consequences ? Frankly, I wouldn't want you to hit my car either. At the very least, you'll be blasting up hills behind other cyclists at speeds nobody else is expecting, and that too adds to the threats you present. And even on the road, motorists who have trouble seeing motor-cyclists will be more likely to miss the unusual behaviors you're e-biking presents.

The law is not ridiculous, it's intended to protect other road users from people who think of only their interests. Not sure what the fines are in Brisbane for riding an unlicensed, uninsured, unregistered motor vehicle (in NSW it totes up to around $1300), but if you were regularly commuting on one of my cycle routes, I'd be asking the local plods to deal with you.


edit: fixed quote
Last edited by wombatK on Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby SteveAndBelle » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:02 am

SteveAndBelle wrote:... but I obviously don't need or even want to do those speeds on my daily commute...

Seems like pretty plain English to me!

Not to worry, I've scrapped the project now and will continue to use my car. Thanks again for all your input, much appreciated.
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby trailgumby » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:55 am

wombatK wrote:The law is not ridiculous, it's intended to protect other road users from people who think of only their interests. Not sure what the fines are in Brisbane for riding an unlicensed, uninsured, unregistered motor vehicle (in NSW it totes up to around $1300), but if you were regularly commuting on one of my cycle routes, I'd be asking the local plods to deal with you.

+1.

If you prefer not to pedal, but still want to beat the traffic, do it properly: get licenced and insured and get a motorbike.

You got roasted because you wanted us to help you with taking illegal shortcuts that put other people at risk with no recourse.
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:11 pm

trailgumby wrote:
wombatK wrote:The law is not ridiculous, it's intended to protect other road users from people who think of only their interests. Not sure what the fines are in Brisbane for riding an unlicensed, uninsured, unregistered motor vehicle (in NSW it totes up to around $1300), but if you were regularly commuting on one of my cycle routes, I'd be asking the local plods to deal with you.

+1.

If you prefer not to pedal, but still want to beat the traffic, do it properly: get licenced and insured and get a motorbike.

You got roasted because you wanted us to help you with taking illegal shortcuts that put other people at risk with no recourse.


+1, the law is the law whether you like it or not.
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby toofat » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:32 pm

very harsh and unfriendly way to treat a new poster
Firstly just because he weighs 93 kg does not automatically mean that he is a fat overweight person with clogged arteries who is trying to avoid exercise
Secondly my impression is that he wanted more wattage to avoid excessive sweating, not become a lethal missile and endanger the holier than thou whippets who can cruise at 35kph without breaking a sweat.
I welcome anyone getting out of a petrol fueled vehicle and on to a bike, just because I can get by without battery assistance i dont think we should be discriminating against those who cant or dont want to, perhaps people who start cycling this way eventually become fit enough not to need assistance
perhaps the OP could buy a really light bike,put a 200w motor on it, loose a few kg and blow past a few negative posters :)
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby Joeblake » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:43 pm

Hmmm. I really think the thread title and the first few words of the OP say all that needs to be said.

Legal & effortless eBike
...

No such thing I'm sure ...


Just trolling around.

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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby toofat » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:34 pm

Hi Joe
having been in coms with him via pm, imo its not a Troll post

What is worth remembering is that when bicycles first appeared on Australian roads quite a few people wanted them banned on the grounds they would scare the horses
seems a bit quaint and foolish now :roll:
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby Joeblake » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:50 pm

I'm not sure how that's relevant. The difference as I see it as that whilst there may have been attempts to ban bicycles previously (regardless of the reasoning) this law is already in place, and the OP knows that and acknowledges it. And the point already made, there are already (effortless) alternatives currently available. If I wish to go someplace in a hurry without raising a sweat, I ride my (petrol fueled) motorcycle. When the appropriate time comes, I'll get rid of it and buy an electric motorcycle, paying the licences, registration, insurance etc, which I feel are quite justified on a number of levels, while still keeping my electrike(s).

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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby toofat » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:26 pm

the point i was trying to make was, at the time when most people had horses, it seemed sensible to ban bicycles if they would upset horses,
some want Ebikes banned now, yet in the future when everyone is whizzing around on all sorts of electric and other devices, limiting an ebike to 200w will seem archaic imo
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby Joeblake » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:54 pm

I actually agree with the reasoning, and put in its context, it did make limited sense. And in fact even today, when I'm riding my petrol motorcycle, and I come upon (as I sometimes do living in a semi rural area) a horse or horses, just to be on the safe side, wherever possible, I'll clutch in and throttle down to minimise any chance of spooking the horses. But in that case it's not the motorcycle that's the problem ... it's the horse.

However, here it's the over-powered e-bike causes the problems. As mentioned previously, one of those travelling at high speed on a cycle path is a recipe for disaster.

But more to the point, my initial comment brings me here. This e-bike sub-forum (at the time of my writing this post) has 64 threads. Of those, excluding THIS thread, three of them have titles which show they are discussing law in one form or another. (From personal experience, I know there is also discussion on law in several others, but I'll discount those.) However, these three threads between them contain 398 of the total of 968 postings in this forum (again, at the time of posting this). So that's roughly 40% of the sub-forum posts are about the law and e-bikes.

Again, from personal experience, I know there are many posts on exactly this topic, over powered ("illegal") e-bikes.

Now has the OP bothered to read any of those threads? It would seem not. Otherwise it would have been immediately obvious that this particular topic has been thrashed and thrashed and thrashed.

So what end does yet another thread on the same topic serve? None that I can see.

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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby Queestce » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:40 pm

toofat wrote:the point i was trying to make was, at the time when most people had horses, it seemed sensible to ban bicycles if they would upset horses,
some want Ebikes banned now, yet in the future when everyone is whizzing around on all sorts of electric and other devices, limiting an ebike to 200w will seem archaic imo


Even if that were to be true, if "everyone is whizzing around on all sorts of electric and other devices", they will be on the roads - not on bike paths...
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby blompod » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:31 pm

Amen toofat your way ahead of your time :)
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby Comedian » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:27 pm

Hmmm... an ebike that can do 47.5k on the flat without pedalling???? And people wonder why I like electric bikes to be limited. **sigh**

I hope the op realises that most 50cc petrol scooters are only good for that? I believe most of them are limited to 50. Personally if I saw that contraption being used I wouldn't wait till I got home to call the cops... I'd pop into the station on the way home! :twisted:
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby il padrone » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:42 pm

toofat wrote:when bicycles first appeared on Australian roads quite a few people wanted them banned on the grounds they would scare the horses
seems a bit quaint and foolish now :roll:

If you ride on quieter country roads or railtrails you'll soon realise that they often still do :idea: . Not so 'quaint' really.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby Hangdog98 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:25 pm

I think the best place for a question like this is on the electric bike forums at http://www.endless-sphere.com because there's far too many self righteous wanchors here who take pride in their place at the middle of the human powered totem pole.

What makes me really laugh are the comments on 'illegality'. How many of the pious pedallers here have reflectors on their wheels? How many have refelctors on their pedals, or a white reflector on the front of their bike and a red one on the rear,? How many use the appropriate hand signals when changing lanes or diverging? How many discard their helmet when it has reached its use-by-date? How many have a bell fitted to their bike? How many ride no more than two abreast on the road? How many have their front brake lever on the left? How many are over 93kgs (most of the 6'3"+ riders would be) and finally how many have ridden at speeds above 47.5 kph using the assistance of a tailwind, a slipstream, a hill or a Guarana energy gel?

A: about 95% of us. (Hypocrite much?). Are you a menace to society too or did you earn the right to be so pious by cycling to work in the rain when others took the car?

Talk about an elitist buch of hypocrite wanchors who cherry pick the laws they follow. Even so, these aren't the laws allegedly found by Moses etched into the stone tablets, they're usually ill conceived scribble made by people who won a popularity contest by lying and cheating and who have no idea what they're talking about in the first place. That's why you took the dodgy reflectors off your clipless pedals isn't it. Yes, hang your heads in shame and report to your local Police Station forthwith.

Cycling is a growing sport and most, if not all of the newer members of the cycling community can't match your V02 and can't ride to work for logistical reasons of clothing or time constraints until their fitness and skills are also up to speed. The OBVIOUS way to get commuters out of their cars and on to bicycles is to bridge the gap between the newbie's legs and the veterans legs. These people are turning to bicycles and away from cars for their commute. What they can't do yet is make the 30km journey in less than 2 hours (each way), arrive at work in time for a shower (if they're lucky enough to have such facilities) and leave for work an hour or an hour and a half earlier than they normally do. They need help and that help is in the form of an efficient e-bike.

I weigh 93kg and I can ride the 72km return journey to work with my legs alone and I'll zoom past you on your hybrid commuter bicycle with the one pannier bag and suck the fluoro vest off your back in my wake without so much as a ding from my non-existant bell. Am I a menace to society too or am I excempt because I can do this under my own power? I'd be happy for SteveAndBelle to join me on my commute and I would recommend that he gets a 350W cyclone motor to help him keep up. In time he'll get fitter, lighter and faster under his own steam... well he would have if it wasn't for the cyclo-elite demonstrating what wanchors we cyclists are. No wonder he went back to the car. Good job everyone. :roll:
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby Joeblake » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:29 pm

Hangdog98 wrote:I think the best place for a question like this is on the electric bike forums at http://www.endless-sphere.com



I'm glad to see that you agree with me.

this particular topic has been thrashed and thrashed and thrashed.

So what end does yet another thread on the same topic serve? None that I can see.



What makes me really laugh are the comments on 'illegality'.


Well, the OP acknowledged him/herself the "illegality" in their very first words.


No wonder he went back to the car. Good job everyone. :roll:


So why is that a problem? S/he simply said
I've scrapped the project now and will continue to use my car.
Nowhere has there been any indication that s/he (a) ever stopped using their or car or (b) is never going to ride a bicycle ever again for all of eternity.

I've got 5 pedallies, only two of which are electric, but I ride all of them at some time or other, but still average about 9,000 km a year on my petrol powered pony. I can't see why not having an "illegal" machine should be a reason for not riding a bicycle at all. That would sound rather like a dummy spit. :lol:

I think you're making a mountain out of a non-existent molehill.

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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby Comedian » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:19 pm

Hangdog98 wrote:I think the best place for a question like this is on the electric bike forums at http://www.endless-sphere.com because there's far too many self righteous wanchors here who take pride in their place at the middle of the human powered totem pole.

What makes me really laugh are the comments on 'illegality'. How many of the pious pedallers here have reflectors on their wheels? How many have refelctors on their pedals, or a white reflector on the front of their bike and a red one on the rear,? How many use the appropriate hand signals when changing lanes or diverging? How many discard their helmet when it has reached its use-by-date? How many have a bell fitted to their bike? How many ride no more than two abreast on the road? How many have their front brake lever on the left? How many are over 93kgs (most of the 6'3"+ riders would be) and finally how many have ridden at speeds above 47.5 kph using the assistance of a tailwind, a slipstream, a hill or a Guarana energy gel?

A: about 95% of us. (Hypocrite much?). Are you a menace to society too or did you earn the right to be so pious by cycling to work in the rain when others took the car?

Talk about an elitist buch of hypocrite wanchors who cherry pick the laws they follow. Even so, these aren't the laws allegedly found by Moses etched into the stone tablets, they're usually ill conceived scribble made by people who won a popularity contest by lying and cheating and who have no idea what they're talking about in the first place. That's why you took the dodgy reflectors off your clipless pedals isn't it. Yes, hang your heads in shame and report to your local Police Station forthwith.

Cycling is a growing sport and most, if not all of the newer members of the cycling community can't match your V02 and can't ride to work for logistical reasons of clothing or time constraints until their fitness and skills are also up to speed. The OBVIOUS way to get commuters out of their cars and on to bicycles is to bridge the gap between the newbie's legs and the veterans legs. These people are turning to bicycles and away from cars for their commute. What they can't do yet is make the 30km journey in less than 2 hours (each way), arrive at work in time for a shower (if they're lucky enough to have such facilities) and leave for work an hour or an hour and a half earlier than they normally do. They need help and that help is in the form of an efficient e-bike.

I weigh 93kg and I can ride the 72km return journey to work with my legs alone and I'll zoom past you on your hybrid commuter bicycle with the one pannier bag and suck the fluoro vest off your back in my wake without so much as a ding from my non-existant bell. Am I a menace to society too or am I excempt because I can do this under my own power? I'd be happy for SteveAndBelle to join me on my commute and I would recommend that he gets a 350W cyclone motor to help him keep up. In time he'll get fitter, lighter and faster under his own steam... well he would have if it wasn't for the cyclo-elite demonstrating what wanchors we cyclists are. No wonder he went back to the car. Good job everyone. :roll:


Well I'm pretty sure you are the goose, mate. In queensland the only stipulation as to the legality of a non powered push bike is...

QLD ROAD RULES wrote:Equipment on a bicycle (s258)

Your bicycle must:

have at least one effective brake
have a bell, horn or similar warning device in working order.
Riding at night (s259)

When riding at night, or in weather conditions with reduced visibility, you must display on your bicycle or yourself:

a flashing or steady white light on the front of the bicycle that can be seen for at least 200 m
a flashing or steady red light on the rear of the bicycle that can be seen for at least 200 m
a reflector on the rear of the bicycle that can be seen for at least 50 m when a vehicle's headlights shine on it.


I can tell you with complete honesty that all my bikes comply with all of these rules and are completely legal. Also, I ride on average about 1100-1200 k on my bikes a month. I commute, I ride places etc. Yes, sometimes I even ride in the rain although usually only to get to or from work, or to pick my kids up from school.

I also take my safety reasonably seriously. If my objection to sharing our tiny little cycle paths and routes with a bicycle and passenger unit likely weighing 13-150kg not pedalling but doing 47kph makes me a "self righteous wanchors/Hypocrite/cyclo-elite wanchors" then so be it. :roll:

If I see him, I'll call the cops. :)
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby Hangdog98 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:17 pm

Comedian wrote:If I see him, I'll call the cops. :)

I love it when Queenslanders make comments about technical things.
And you're worried sick about some dubious Wattage output that the Police will never be able to calculate, let alone enforce.

Here's some more things to consider when you're busy claiming not to be breaking any rules and throwing stones in your glass house:

**************************************

Riding two abreast, no more than 1.5 m apart

Travelling to the front of a line of traffic on the left hand side of the stopped vehicles

Travelling in Bus Lanes and Transit Lanes. However, cyclists cannot travel in Bus Only Lanes

Travelling on the footpath where indicated by signage

Cycling on the footpath if the cyclist is less than 12 years old. An adult, who is riding in a supervisory capacity of a cyclist less than 12 years old, may also ride with the young cyclist on the footpath

Turning right from the left hand lane of a multi-lane roundabout with the proviso the cyclists must give way to exiting traffic
To be a legal road vehicle during the day, a bicycle must have:


At least one working brake

Either a bell or horn fitted to the bike, within easy reach and in working order
To be a legal road vehicle at night, a bicycle must also have :


Lights fitted and in use when riding at night - a steady or flashing white light that is clearly visible for at least 200 metres and a flashing or steady red light that is clearly visible for at least 200 metres from the rear of the bike

red rear reflector that is clearly visible for 50 metres when light is projected onto it by a vehicle's headlight on low beam
It is compulsory to wear an approved helmet correctly when riding a bike. This applies to all cyclists, regardless of age, including children on bicycles with training wheels and any child being carried as a passenger on a bike or in a trailer.

The fine for any bicycle offence is $45.


Part 15 Additional rules for bicycle riders

Note 1 This Part contains rules that apply only to bicycle riders. Most rules
in the Australian Road Rules apply to bicycle riders in the same way as they
apply to drivers — see rule 19. There are some other rules that are for
bicycle riders only, or that have exceptions for bicycle riders. These include:


optional hook turn by bicycle riders — rule 35

bicycle riders making a hook turn contrary to a no hook turn by bicycles sign — rule 36

bicycle riders excepted from giving stop signals — rule 52

exception for bicycle riders riding in emergency stopping lanes — rule 95

bicycle riders entering and leaving roundabouts — rules 111 and 119

bicycle riders overtaking on the left — rule 141

riding alongside other riders — rule 151

bicycle lanes — rule 153

parking at a bicycle rail or in a bicycle rack — rule 166

stopping on footpaths — rule 197

stopping on a road with a bicycle parking sign — rule 201.
Note 2 Bicycle is defined in the dictionary.

245 Riding a bicycle

The rider of a bicycle must:
(a) sit astride the rider’s seat facing forwards (except if the
bicycle is not built to be ridden astride); and
(b) ride with at least 1 hand on the handlebars; and
(c) if the bicycle is equipped with a seat — not ride the
bicycle seated in any other position on the bicycle.
Offence provision.

246 Carrying people on a bicycle

The rider of a bicycle must not carry more persons on the
bicycle than the bicycle is designed to carry.
Offence provision.
Additional rules for bicycle riders Part 15

247 Riding in a bicycle lane on a road

(1) The rider of a bicycle riding on a length of road with a bicycle
lane designed for bicycles travelling in the same direction as
the rider must ride in the bicycle lane unless it is impracticable
to do so.
Offence provision.
Note Rule 153 defines a bicycle lane and deals with the use of bicycle
lanes by other vehicles.
(2) In this rule:
road does not include a road-related area.
Note Road-related area includes the shoulder of a road — see rule 13.

248 No riding across a road on a crossing

The rider of a bicycle must not ride across a road, or part of a
road, on a children’s crossing, marked foot crossing or
pedestrian crossing.
Offence provision.
Note Children’s crossing is defined in rule 80, marked foot crossing is
defined in the dictionary, and pedestrian crossing is defined in rule 81.

249 Riding on a separated footpath

The rider of a bicycle must not ride on a part of a separated
footpath designated for the use of pedestrians.
Offence provision.
Note 1 Separated footpath is defined in rule 239, and pedestrian is defined
in rule 18.
Note 2 Rule 336 deals with how parts of a separated footpath are
designated for bicycle riders and pedestrians.

250 Riding on a footpath or shared path

(1) The rider of a bicycle who is 12 years old or older must not ride
on a footpath if another law of this jurisdiction prohibits the
rider from riding on the footpath.
Offence provision.
Example of another law of this jurisdiction
Another law of this jurisdiction may provide that a commercial courier must
not ride a bicycle on any footpath or any footpath in a particular area, or that
an adult must not ride a bicycle on a footpath unless the adult is
accompanying a child under 12 years who is also riding on the footpath.
Note Footpath is defined in the dictionary.
(2) The rider of a bicycle riding on a footpath or shared path must:
(a) keep to the left of the footpath or shared path unless it is
impracticable to do so; and
(b) give way to any pedestrian on the footpath or shared path.
Offence provision.
Note 1 Pedestrian is defined in rule 18, and shared path is defined in
rule 242.
Note 2 For subrule (2), give way means the rider must slow down and, if
necessary, stop to avoid a collision — see the definition in the dictionary.
(3) In this rule:
footpath does not include a separated footpath.
Note Separated footpath is defined in rule 239.

251 Riding to the left of oncoming bicycle riders on a path

The rider of a bicycle riding on a bicycle path, footpath,
separated footpath or shared path must keep to the left of any
oncoming bicycle rider on the path.
Offence provision.
Note Bicycle path and separated footpath are defined in rule 239, footpath
is defined in the dictionary, and shared path is defined in rule 242.
Additional rules for bicycle riders Part 15

252 No bicycles signs and markings

(1) The rider of a bicycle must not ride on a length of road or
footpath to which a no bicycles sign, or a no bicycles road
marking, applies.
Offence provision.
Note Footpath, length of road and no bicycles road marking are defined
in the dictionary.
(2) A no bicycles sign, or a no bicycles road marking, applies to a
length of road or footpath beginning at the sign or marking and
ending at the nearest of the following:
(a) a bicycle path sign or bicycle path road marking;
(b) a bicycle lane sign;
(c) a separated footpath sign or separated footpath road
marking;
(d) a shared path sign;
(e) an end no bicycles sign;
(f) the next intersection.
Note Intersection is defined in the dictionary, and bicycle path road
marking and separated footpath road marking are defined in rule 239.
No bicycles sign Bicycle path sign
Bicycle lane sign Separated footpath sign
Part 15 Additional rules for bicycle riders
Note 1 for diagrams There are a number of other permitted versions of the
bicycle path sign and bicycle lane sign, and another permitted version of the
no bicycles sign, separated footpath sign and shared path sign — see the
diagrams in Schedule 3.
Note 2 for diagrams A separated footpath sign may have the pedestrian
symbol and the bicycle symbol reversed — see rule 316 (4).

253 Bicycle riders not to cause a traffic hazard

The rider of a bicycle must not cause a traffic hazard by
moving into the path of a driver or pedestrian.
Offence provision.

254 Bicycles being towed etc

(1) A person must not ride on a bicycle that is being towed by
another vehicle.
Offence provision.
Note Vehicle is defined in rule 15.
(2) The rider of a bicycle must not hold onto another vehicle while
the vehicle is moving.
Offence provision.

255 Riding too close to the rear of a motor vehicle

The rider of a bicycle must not ride within 2 metres of the rear
of a moving motor vehicle continuously for more than
200 metres.
Offence provision.
Note Motor vehicle is defined in the dictionary.


256 Bicycle helmets

(1) The rider of a bicycle must wear an approved bicycle helmet
securely fitted and fastened on the rider’s head, unless the rider
is exempt from wearing a bicycle helmet under another law of
this jurisdiction.
Offence provision.
Note Approved bicycle helmet is defined in the dictionary.
(2) The rider of a bicycle must not carry a passenger on the bicycle
unless:
(a) the passenger is wearing an approved bicycle helmet
securely fitted and fastened on the passenger’s head; or
(b) the passenger is exempt from wearing a bicycle helmet
under another law of this jurisdiction.
Offence provision.
(3) Subrule (2) does not apply to the rider of a three or
four-wheeled bicycle who is carrying a paying passenger.

257 Riding with a person on a bicycle trailer

(1) The rider of a bicycle must not tow a bicycle trailer with a
person in or on the bicycle trailer, unless:
(a) the rider is 16 years old, or older; and
(b) the person in or on the bicycle trailer is under 10 years old,
or as otherwise provided under another law of this
jurisdiction; and
(c) the bicycle trailer can safely carry the person; and
(d) the person in or on the bicycle trailer is wearing an
approved bicycle helmet securely fitted and fastened on
the person’s head, unless the person is exempt from
wearing a bicycle helmet under another law of this
jurisdiction.
Offence provision.
Note Approved bicycle helmet is defined in the dictionary.
(2) In this rule:
bicycle trailer means a vehicle that is built to be towed, or is
towed, by a bicycle.
Note Vehicle is defined in rule 15.

258 Equipment on a bicycle

A person must not ride a bicycle that does not have:
(a) at least 1 effective brake; and
(b) a bell, horn, or similar warning device, in working order.
Offence provision.

259 Riding at night

The rider of a bicycle must not ride at night, or in hazardous
weather conditions causing reduced visibility, unless the
bicycle, or the rider, displays:
(a) a flashing or steady white light that is clearly visible for at
least 200 metres from the front of the bicycle; and
(b) a flashing or steady red light that is clearly visible for at
least 200 metres from the rear of the bicycle; and
(c) a red reflector that is clearly visible for at least 50 metres
from the rear of the bicycle when light is projected onto it
by a vehicle’s headlight on low-beam.
Offence provision.
Note Low-beam and night are defined in the dictionary.

260 Stopping for a red bicycle crossing light

(1) The rider of a bicycle approaching or at bicycle crossing lights
showing a red bicycle crossing light must stop before reaching
the bicycle crossing lights.
Offence provision.
Note Bicycle crossing lights and red bicycle crossing light are defined in
the dictionary.
(2) The rider must not proceed until:
(a) the bicycle crossing lights change to green; or
(b) there is no red bicycle crossing light showing.
Offence provision.
Note Green bicycle crossing light is defined in the dictionary.
Example
Red bicycle crossing light Green bicycle crossing light

261 Stopping for a yellow bicycle crossing light

(1) The rider of a bicycle approaching bicycle crossing lights
showing a yellow bicycle crossing light must comply with this
rule.
Offence provision.
Note Bicycle crossing lights and yellow bicycle crossing light are defined
in the dictionary.
(2) If the rider can stop safely before reaching the bicycle crossing
lights, the bicycle rider must stop before reaching the lights.
(3) If the rider stops before reaching the bicycle crossing lights,
and the lights change to red, the bicycle rider must not proceed
until:
(a) the bicycle crossing lights change to green; or
(b) there is no red or yellow bicycle crossing light showing.
Note Green bicycle crossing light and red bicycle crossing light are
defined in the dictionary.
Yellow bicycle crossing light

262 Proceeding when bicycle crossing lights change to yellow or red

(1) If bicycle crossing lights at an intersection change from green
to yellow or red while the rider of a bicycle is in the
intersection, the rider must finish crossing the intersection as
soon as the rider can do so safely.
Offence provision.
Note 1 Bicycle crossing lights is defined in the dictionary.
Note 2 Intersection does not include a road-related area — see the
definition in the dictionary.
(2) If bicycle crossing lights at a place on a road where the rider of
a bicycle is crossing the road change from green to yellow or
red while the rider is on the road, the rider must cross the road
as soon as the rider can do so safely.
Offence provision.
(3) In this rule:
road does not include a road-related area.
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Hangdog98
 
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Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby Joeblake » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:35 pm

As I've mentioned, the problem is very clearly and simply stated. The OP has stated s/he wants to know how to do something which s/he acknowledges is illegal.

What that "something" is ... is of absolutely no relevance.

What s/he is doing is in no way different from all the "illegalities" you allege other people (who??) are doing.

A: about 95% of us. (Hypocrite much?).


You've said "us", which therefore includes yourself. You've admitted you've committed illegal acts, so what are you arguing about?

Joe
To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell
Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Joeblake
 
Posts: 12701
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: Lesmurdie WA

Re: Legal & effortless eBike?

Postby Comedian » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:19 am

I could link to the rules section too if that makes it better for you???

Anyway, the problem remains - We've got a guy here who has an unregistered electric motorbike who is intending to ride it illegally on paths intended for bicycles or pedestrians. So, we will have a 130-150kg lump doing 50kph down our tiny and inadequate bike paths. I will say it again - if I saw this happening I'll report it.

If I'm doing something wrong you're welcome to report it. I'm pretty sure they will take my report of a electric motorbike doing an estimated 50kph down Kedron Brook Bikeway more seriously than yours. That could be on an absolute scale though. :shock:

I guess the thing that the OP and Handog has to live with is that whatever alleged infractions your fellow bicycle users may or may not commit - if there is an accident the police will have your bike sitting there in front of them. Like say the OP nails some poor kid at 50kph on a bike path and does grave injuries to both of them then the police will have a beast of a bike wreck in front of them with a huge motor and a very large battery. They will likely have a whitness or two saying "he wasn't even pedalling". I mean you work it out. There is going to be trouble. It's like a car crash where the vehicle involved is unroadworthy... like you're starting out on the wrong foot! Is it worth it?
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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