your rain jacket when touring?

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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:38 am

Showerspass actually do make a helmet rain-cover that looks very much like............ a showercap :wink:
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Baalzamon » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:22 am

il padrone wrote:Showerspass actually do make a helmet rain-cover that looks very much like............ a showercap :wink:

That they do, but I prefer the colours of the Gore one. Black vs hi vis yellow.
Kept my head nice n toasty on my 2nd last day of Esperance to Perth tour. 12 degree day with a very cold SE wind dropping temps down to 7 or so. I had my showerpass jacket on all the zips up trying to keep my warm. It did the job, that is the 2nd time I've had to wear the showerpass to keep me warm, 1st time was on an Audax ride
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby elStado » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:20 pm

il padrone wrote:Showerspass actually do make a helmet rain-cover that looks very much like............ a showercap :wink:


yeah i saw that.. pity about the price ($40). They must be pretty keen.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby RonK » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:33 pm

elStado wrote:The hood is massive! I have an average sized noggin but the large design of the hood and the peak it has pushes forwards due to the excess and obscures your vision unless you are wearing a helmet or other head wear on top that will hold the hood in place properly. Without anything to hold it in place it isn't great and would be really annoying due to how oversized it is.

Too bad - I mentioned the utility of a helmet cap versus the showers pass hood way back in posts 18 and 20.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:55 pm

elStado wrote:
il padrone wrote:Showerspass actually do make a helmet rain-cover that looks very much like............ a showercap :wink:


yeah i saw that.. pity about the price ($40). They must be pretty keen.

Hence why I use the $2.50 (deluxe model) showercap :D
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:59 pm

Yeah, reading that first page, the last few posts here are almost a carbon copy of it :oops:
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Aushiker » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:08 pm

Hi

Here is another possible option; a Montane Pace Cap made of eVent.

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Pricey but.

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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Baalzamon » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:27 pm

elStado wrote:
il padrone wrote:Showerspass actually do make a helmet rain-cover that looks very much like............ a showercap :wink:


yeah i saw that.. pity about the price ($40). They must be pretty keen.


That is the same price as the gore lot on Wiggle
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby elStado » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:40 am

il padrone wrote:Yeah, reading that first page, the last few posts here are almost a carbon copy of it :oops:


True.

I wish I had gone back and read through this thread from the start before buying the hood. Main issue for me is that it is too large and bulky to use even off the bike and it obscures my vision.

Off to ebay it will be.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Uncle Just » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:46 pm

I've used my Showerspass jacket twice now in heavy cold rain with wind. It's not as good imo as my previous goretex jacket, a MD Tour de Force. I still feel cold with it on despite proper layers underneath. The MD jacket was fantastic, always feeling warm and snug in it and that was riding in freezing alpine conditions on the high plains and several times on the GOR in very bad conditions.

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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:58 pm

Uncle Just wrote:I've used my Showerspass jacket twice now in heavy cold rain with wind. It's not as good imo as my previous goretex jacket, a MD Tour de Force. I still feel cold with it on despite proper layers underneath.

That's because it has such good ventilation and breathability (much more breathable than Goretex). The purpose of a rain-shell is to keep you dry. Are you saying it does not do this well?

For warmth you need those extra layers underneath. Plan to dress a bit heavier than you have in the past for cold conditions. Personally I have not had huge problems with this.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby RonK » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:02 pm

il padrone wrote:
Uncle Just wrote:I've used my Showerspass jacket twice now in heavy cold rain with wind. It's not as good imo as my previous goretex jacket, a MD Tour de Force. I still feel cold with it on despite proper layers underneath.

That's because it has such good ventilation and breathability (much more breathable than Goretex). The purpose of a rain-shell is to keep you dry. Are you saying it does not do this well?

For warmth you need those extra layers underneath. Plan to dress a bit heavier than you have in the past for cold conditions. Personally I have not had huge problems with this.

Agreed - the problem with most rain jackets is overheating. As long as it keeps you dry, then you can layer up for warmth.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Uncle Just » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:03 am

Gentlemen I agree about wearing the proper stuff underneath hence the reference to that in my post..."I still feel cold with it on despite proper layers underneath" ie base layer of a s/s woollen undershirt, merino long sleeve top next, then a long sleeve jersey. My experience to yours is different it seems and yes it is waterproof but I find it not as good as the Mountain Designs jacket for staying both dry and warm. I also don't find it that breathable like most of these jackets. Unless wearing them in very cold conditions with low humidity, the build up of sweat when riding climbs etc is always a problem ime.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:32 am

Uncle Just wrote: I also don't find it that breathable like most of these jackets.

This is a study of a wide range of fabrics by the US Army to compare breathability. eVent performed a lot better than many other fabrics, notably more than Goretex, and its performance does not vary depending on the relative humidity. Goretex works very well in this regard in a humid environment. But still not as good as eVent.

Image

The reason for doing the testing this way is that some materials like Gore-Tex, Sympatex, etc., have much better water vapor transport properties when they are in a humid environment than when they are in a dry environment, relatively speaking. Other materials, such as most textiles or microporous membranes, have a nearly constant water vapor diffusion resistance regardless of the environmental conditions



A pretty impressive visual demonstration of how well eVent works with a pressure difference (what vapour-permeability is all about)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXLPnD2w0P8&feature=related[/youtube]


Uncle Just wrote:Unless wearing them in very cold conditions with low humidity, the build up of sweat when riding climbs etc is always a problem ime.

Surprising. My experience is the Showerspass Elite 2.0 has been much better ventilated than other jackets eg. Mont Hammerhead, GE Stormtrooper. It's probably as good as the old WE Cyclecag, but that had huge full-length side zips.

Regarding breathability, there is some confusion here. Breathability is not the same as ventilation. One thing may people get misguided about is the issue of sweating when working hard. No jacket will keep you dry when you are working really hard on a climb - you will get sweaty. Vents on the jacket will help to minimize the build-up of sweat, by allowing it to evaporate quicker with air flow. Normally, evaporation takes time. What 'breathable' refers to is what happens when you later stop and some time passes - do you dry off and stay warm, or do you stay wet and get chilled (like using the old nylon jackets). Breathable fabrics allow you to dry off as your body cools down, and stay warmer in the long term.

Uncle Jst wrote:Unless wearing them in very cold conditions with low humidity, the build up of sweat when riding climbs etc is always a problem ime.

In very humid conditions you will be getting sweaty because the air is very humd. There is low evaporation from your skin, period. The choice of rainjacket fabric is not going to change this. When it is damp all round (including the air) you are just going to get damp as well, sorry :( . But eVent has a better chance than Goretex at helping you dry off.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby elStado » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:18 pm

Just took my Elite 2.0 for its maiden ride. I only rode 8km to the shops and back. Jacket was very comfortable and had good ventilation, especially with the pit zips down. Encountered a bit of light rain which, as expected, the jacket handled perfectly. Much better than my stuffy old spray jacket. I was still a bit sweaty when I got home, especially on my arms as there's no ventilation, but considering it is 23 degrees and about 66% relative humidity here in Perth this morning that was acceptable.

I got the orange-red jacket and it's a really good colour, it's visible (especially with the extra 3M reflective tape) without being obnoxious, and looks like something a coastguard officer or similar would wear on duty.

All up I give the jacket my official seal of endorsement, there's really not much I would change about it except maybe a better designed hood that comes with the jacket at no extra cost.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Aushiker » Wed May 02, 2012 12:04 pm

My replacement Showers Pass Elite 2.0 arrived today from BicyclingHub.com. I lost my first Showers Pass Elite 2 on my July 2011 ride of the Munda Biddi Trail.

Excellent service with delivery being quite quick from the US, which is a change from the pass. Oh for those interested the XL weighs in at 525 grams according to my digital scales and I got the Chilli Red this time which looks much better IMO than the Golden Rod colour.

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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby elStado » Wed May 02, 2012 1:33 pm

Aushiker wrote:I got the Chilli Red this time which looks much better IMO than the Golden Rod colour.


+1

I love the colour of mine. Goes perfectly with my red/black Ortlieb panniers hahaha. :) Plus it looks like some sort of emergency services jacket with the colour and reflective sections.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed May 02, 2012 5:16 pm

il padrone wrote:
Uncle Just wrote: Goretex works very well in this regard in a humid environment. But still not as good as eVent.


My understanding (and experience which is limited as I formed the opinion many years ago that it is grossly over-rated for a number of reasons) is that humidity is the killer when it comes to Goretex and it's much vaunted "breathability". So is rain which largely kills any reason for it.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Wed May 02, 2012 6:03 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote: humidity is the killer when it comes to Goretex and it's much vaunted "breathability". So is rain which largely kills any reason for it.

Not at all the case. I can speak from experience over 25 years with Goretex and other breathable fabrics.

In the cooler climes of southern Australia and especially in winter, the air outside your breathable rain jacket is drier than the air within. Called a vapour pressure gradient, this is what causes the water vapour to want to move out of the jacket. Your body working hard creates vapour from perspiration that becomes more humid than the outside air (even when raining). However in more tropical northern Australia the humidity when raining is generally much higher - the vapour pressure gradient is less steep. Breathable fabrics are less effective - but still will work. Then they are less essential as the hypothermia risk is low in the warmer clime.

It is essential to keep the surface of the fabric dry in large proprtion to allow this vapour permeation - why these jackets have a durable water repellant (DWR) treatment. If the surface is totally wetted out the vapour cannot pass through. DWR keeps the rain beaded on the surface of the jacket. Over time the DWR can get rubbed off and reduced in efectiveness. This is possibly why some people face difficulties with their jackets - you need to wash them frequently, and use a tumble dryer or warm iron occasionally to reactivate the DWR. Many people probably don't do this.

As I posted earlier, the thing that trips up many people with Goretex and other breathable laminate fabrics is the expectation that you will not get sweaty. This is incorrect - when working hard you are always going to get sweaty. Always. The difference between breathable fabrics and a plastic mac is what happens when you are damp from exertion and you stop somewhere (for lunch, at a wayside shelter etc). With the plastic mac you stay wet and get increasingly colder - hello hypothermia! With breathable fabrics you will dry off under the jacket - even in rain. Then depending on your clothing, you will be able to warm up and survive without the chills. Over the years, with various jackets, I have experienced both of these events happening to me. I know which type of rainjacket I would rather wear to stay dry and warm in an 'all day' situation.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby elStado » Thu May 03, 2012 9:56 pm

The forecast today was for rain, so I rolled up and packed my SP Elite 2.0 jacket* just in case. One thing I noticed was how it is quite bulky and heavy for a rain jacket. Not a deal breaker by any length, but certainly something to be aware of if you are touring light.

*My jacket also has a Showers Pass hood in the rear pocket.. which no doubt adds to overall the bulk & weight I noticed.
Last edited by elStado on Fri May 04, 2012 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Thu May 03, 2012 11:42 pm

Hmm, maybe bulky in comparison to light cycling jackets (nylon, Entrant and other less suitable fabrics). In comparison to Goretex and similar breathable laminate cycling jackets I have had (WE Cyclecag, Mont Hammerhead) it is noticably more compact.

Sort of like comparing two bikes for weight - carbon roadie and DH MTB - and criticising the MTB for weighing over 10kg.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby elStado » Thu May 03, 2012 11:46 pm

il padrone wrote:Hmm, maybe bulky in comparison to light cycling jackets (nylon, Entrant and other less suitable fabrics). In comparison to Goretex and similar breathable laminate cycling jackets I have had (WE Cyclecag, Mont Hammerhead) it is noticably more compact.

Sort of like comparing two bikes for weight - carbon roadie and DH MTB - and criticising the MTB for weighing over 10kg.


Sure enough. If you're going on an extended tour or somewhere where rain is highly likely, suck it up and bring the better quality jacket. However if you're going to go somewhere where rain is not expected or usual for that area/time of year then maybe consider a lighter option for emergencies.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Aushiker » Thu May 03, 2012 11:53 pm

elStado wrote:One thing I noticed was how it is quite bulky and heavy for a rain jacket. Not a deal breaker by any length, but certainly something to be aware of if you are touring light.


I agree. It is a bulky package for sure; not exactly a jacket for the jersey pocket. My XL Showers Pass Elite 2.0 weighs in at a hefty 535 grams or thereabouts. About 200 grams more than my Gore-tex Pac-lite jacket.

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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Thu May 03, 2012 11:57 pm

elStado wrote:However if you're going to go somewhere where rain is not expected or usual for that area/time of year then maybe consider a lighter option for emergencies.

Nup. On touring and Audax rides, even in dry conditions, I always take the Showerspass. Even on the road bike I carry a seat bag that is easily big enough to fit it. I've been caught out once too often :|
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby baghwan » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:47 pm

How did some of the earlier people find their Showers Pass Elite mediums fit? All the measurements say I should be taking a small, I'm 183cm/6ft, 62kg, hips 32" chest 34" but I think someone suggested sizing up?
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