Cycling to Music - Against Etiquette?

[Baldy]

Not disputing that vision is the primary requirement, but if you're saying that hearing is unimportant I'm sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree. Especially for those riders who go without mirrors (the majority).

Now there's a hint!

Rather than taking a negative perspective (making music-player use a safety gaff) try for a positive initiative that boosts everybody's safety (set use of a mirror as a default norm). There is a wide range of suitable mirrors about on the market, if you choose to look.

I agree. Australia should have a mandatory mirror law.

I mean, bike riders having mirrors will make it safer for everybody!! So those urban 4wders with massive bullbars will finally be safe on our roads.

If someone playing music on a tiny set of speakers like a phone annoys you so much, you need to A: Drop them B:Drop back C:Dont leave your house because someone might annoy you

[sogood]

I agree. Australia should have a mandatory mirror law.

Those helmet mount models are very well liked by some riders. But for me, I always worry about it becoming a penetrating object come an accident.

[markusm]

The mirror idea is great but its not a replacement for our natural senses. I dont think using one negates the need to hear whats happening in your surrounds.

I think its downright dangerous and selfish to ride with headphones in, no matter how low the noise level is youre still taking away your awareness of whats going on around you.

I know ill get blasted by some for my comments but the broken arm, fractured collarbone and damage to my bike caused by the rider that zig zagged in front of me and didnt hear my warnings (bell and voice) and knocked me into the path of a car near the Royal National Park justify's my opinion (to myself in the least )

[il padrone]

The mirror idea is great but its not a replacement for our natural senses. I dont think using one negates the need to hear whats happening in your surrounds.

I think seeing a vehicle behind you and judging its distance, lane position and speed, more than replaces the powers of hearing. In many situations, in traffic, in windy conditions or at speed - by the time you can hear the car.... it's to late, it's passing safely or it's about to hit you

Just my experience from 30+ years of commuting (with a mirror mostly).

[sogood]

One fact is. We can have deaf drivers on the road, but not blind drivers.

[Aushiker]

The mirror idea is great but its not a replacement for our natural senses. I dont think using one negates the need to hear whats happening in your surrounds.

I think its downright dangerous and selfish to ride with headphones in, no matter how low the noise level is youre still taking away your awareness of whats going on around you.

Really? I hope you get off the road immediately there is anything reassembly a serious wind. Heck I wouldn't be able home ride most of the summer given I ride into 40 km/h + headwinds most days.

BTW I was riding this morning into a north-easterly wind only blowing around 20 km/h so no wind noise of note however I didn't hear the Nissan Xtrail that was trying its hardest from behind to take me out in a roundabout but I knew it was there and was on top of what was going on because of my mirror.

I personally rate my eyes (and hence my mirror) 100% more important than my hearing. Heck I could argue it is "downright dangerous and selfish to ride with[out a mirror]" but I will not

I presume you also have removed the radio from you car and you lock your phone in the boot when you are driving right?

Andrew

[markusm]

To the above 3 people, its just my opinion, it was asked for wasnt it by the person who started this thread?

I believe whether its right or wrong that your ears are more important than a mirror. In my daily commute (36kms each way) i see more people with ears than mirrors.

Aushiker, i dont touch my phone in the car, thanks for your concern though, and i dont have my music to a level where i have NO idea of the sounds going on around me. Besides all this we were asked about cycling etiquette werent we? Not driving.

Just because someone has a mirror doesnt mean they are using it as you are approaching, whereas if you have ears, without headphones in you'll be using them wont you? I'm also not saying mirrors are a bad thing either, I think theyre a great idea.

If MY opinion on the matter is wrong, i sincerely apologise.

To the forum newbies, welcome to BNA Forums, where your opinion is welcomed (as long as it is the same as everyone elses!)

[markusm]

One fact is. We can have deaf drivers on the road, but not blind drivers.

I thought the thread was about cyclists

[Aushiker]

To the above 3 people, its just my opinion, it was asked for wasnt it by the person who started this thread ...

No problems with that. Others also have the choice to express theirs to and to have them discussed, no?

To the forum newbies, welcome to BNA Forums, where your opinion is welcomed (as long as it is the same as everyone elses!)

Not at all; your views are being challenged .... it is called discussion and is quite appropriate. Far smarter to question and learn. I would be most unimpressed with my students if they did not at times question and challenge what they are told/read and so on.

Andrew

[Aushiker]

From my perspective we are all drivers under the law, well in WA at least and last time I checked we share the road with operators of numerous types of vehicles so to me Sogood's comment is a valid one.

Also in my view the behaviour/medical state of drivers of motor vehicles is probably even more important than that of cyclists. Interesting here at work we now have posters up warning about the risks of being distracted whilst driving a motor vehicle (phone over the eyes posters).

There is even a court case (might still on as haven't heard the outcome?) in WA where a driver of a motor vehicle claims that they didn't hear that they had run over a driver of a scooter because of the level of music playing in their car.

So for me, I am far more concerned about drivers of motor vehicles attention and distractions than I am of cyclists (unless I am sharing a narrow "shared path" with them then it becomes much more critical and in this situation, where my chances of hearing a cyclist are pretty much zilch, eyes are even more critical). So for me I will continue to depend on my eyes far more than I do on my hearing.


Andrew

[markusm]

To the above 3 people, its just my opinion, it was asked for wasnt it by the person who started this thread ...

No problems with that. Others also have the choice to express theirs to and to have them discussed, no?

To the forum newbies, welcome to BNA Forums, where your opinion is welcomed (as long as it is the same as everyone elses!)

Not at all; your views are being challenged .... it is called discussion and is quite appropriate. Far smarter to question and learn. I would be most unimpressed with my students if they did not at times question and challenge what they are told/read and so on.

Andrew

So you're a teacher? It all makes sense now

Anyway, despite all of the above rubbish i dont agree with listening to music while im riding, if others want to listen to music, go for it, just make sure you use your mirrors cause you'll be totally oblivious to everything else around you.

The guy that got me tangled up and darted in front of me as i was warning him of my passing with a bell and verbal warning was wearing earphones and didnt have a mirror. I came off 3rd best, the car came off best and my bike 2nd. Anyway, lucky i'm here to still tell the story, the bike got fixed and a chiro is getting richer and richer off me too!

Sorry for not agreeing with a certain few.

[Schmenz]

again, i think it depends on sound level.

a lot of people (and i) have it pretty low. i would certainly hear you saying "passing right" and ringing your bell.

yes loud music where you cant hear anything else is not ideal but for at a low level background noise in one ear its fine

[sogood]

One fact is. We can have deaf drivers on the road, but not blind drivers.

I thought the thread was about cyclists

Cyclists drive pedal and cranks... Drivers.

[SteveF]

To the above 3 people, its just my opinion, it was asked for wasnt it by the person who started this thread ...

No problems with that. Others also have the choice to express theirs to and to have them discussed, no?

To the forum newbies, welcome to BNA Forums, where your opinion is welcomed (as long as it is the same as everyone elses!)

Not at all; your views are being challenged .... it is called discussion and is quite appropriate. Far smarter to question and learn. I would be most unimpressed with my students if they did not at times question and challenge what they are told/read and so on.

Andrew

So you're a teacher? It all makes sense now

Anyway, despite all of the above rubbish i dont agree with listening to music while im riding, if others want to listen to music, go for it, just make sure you use your mirrors cause you'll be totally oblivious to everything else around you.

The guy that got me tangled up and darted in front of me as i was warning him of my passing with a bell and verbal warning was wearing earphones and didnt have a mirror. I came off 3rd best, the car came off best and my bike 2nd. Anyway, lucky i'm here to still tell the story, the bike got fixed and a chiro is getting richer and richer off me too!

Sorry for not agreeing with a certain few.

Markusm. I agree 100% with your comments and views. On my 50klm commute each way I travel on bike paths shared with walkers, roads with bike lanes and many roads with no bike lanes and I need everyone of my senses to try and predict what others will do in and around the area I cycle. I also have a problem with walkers, pedestrians and other cyclists that are oblivious to what is behind them because they have earphones that restrict their hearing despite me ringing my bell.

[sogood]

Markusm. I agree 100% with your comments and views. On my 50klm commute each way I travel on bike paths... I also have a problem with walkers, pedestrians and other cyclists that are oblivious to what is behind them because they have earphones that restrict their hearing despite me ringing my bell.

We are talking about cyclists using earphones, and many have specified their use limited to one ear at low to medium volume. And you are complaining about walkers and pedestrians first.

[SteveF]

Markusm. I agree 100% with your comments and views. On my 50klm commute each way I travel on bike paths... I also have a problem with walkers, pedestrians and other cyclists that are oblivious to what is behind them because they have earphones that restrict their hearing despite me ringing my bell.

We are talking about cyclists using earphones, and many have specified their use limited to one ear at low to medium volume. And you are complaining about walkers and pedestrians first.

Not complaining making a statement of fact that anyone whether they be walking, cycling or driving limits their hearing capabilities by having earphones listening to music and presents a risk to other users. IMO we all need all our senses 100% functioning to minimise risk to ourselves and others.

[goneriding]

One of the guys in our bunch has started playing music on the climbs during our bunch rides. Much more entertaining than the grunting and panting! We're trying to get him to play Ride of the Valkyrie when we catch up with "serious bunches"

I ride with headphones when I ride solo but not with the ear buds. On bunch rides it's a no no.

[sogood]

On bunch rides it's a no no.

The basis of this statement is on lose ground I think.

Bear in mind that pro riders wear earphone/buds (in one ear) all the time in massive bunches with instructions and abuses coming down the line constantly, so it'd be hard to argue that the use of one earphone/bud in bunches is a no no on technical grounds. The key issue here is how it's used.

[Aushiker]

again, i think it depends on sound level.

and/or type of headphones used. For example I use (mostly running but sometimes on the bike) a Sennheiser PMX 680i which due to its design allows for good hearing of other sounds.

Andrew

[sogood]

again, i think it depends on sound level.

and/or type of headphones used. For example I use (mostly running but sometimes on the bike) a Sennheiser PMX 680i which due to its design allows for good hearing of other sounds.

+1. Sound isolating ear buds would most likely be a bad idea while cheap and common traditional ear buds invariably are fine when used on appropriate volume. They simply don't exclude ambient sound.

[sogood]

I know every bunch I've ever ridden in frowns upon ear buds in the group because it is just unnecessary. try doing it at a club crit', you will be asked to leave the course very quickly.

Yes, I know what you are talking about. But I would put forward that's a draconian directive to exclude those who use audio gears inappropriately. Fact is, one can ride safely with single earphone on low/moderate volume. There are far more relevant factors to bunch safety than those who use audio gears appropriately.

[il padrone]

yes loud music where you cant hear anything else is not ideal but for at a low level background noise in one ear its fine

I spent a year commuting with 'in-ear' buds - they are the ones audiologists recommend as far better for your hearing because the external sound is blocked out and you don't need to crank up the volume nearly so much. I would not hear anything much from the surrounding traffic. I never had any rude surprises nor safety scares. I use the rear view mirror and keep alert to my suroundings.

Haven't used the music player much in the past few years - just got sick of faffing about with the lead setting it up etc.

[il padrone]

Not complaining making a statement of fact that anyone whether they be walking, cycling or driving limits their hearing capabilities by having earphones listening to music and presents a risk to other users. IMO we all need all our senses 100% functioning to minimise risk to ourselves and others.

Hmmm....

Sure hope you don't drive a car with the radio blaring away..... and you'd better keep the windows open so you can hear the surrounding traffic. Oh, and I assume you always use a rear-view mirror on the bike - can't diminish that critical sense, your vision.

[sogood]

Haven't used the music player much in the past few years - just got sick of faffing about with the lead setting it up etc.

That's where iPod shuffle (or similar MP3 player) comes in. Simple, no set up, just clip it to the jersey. I find having some background music is good for those long rides and the rhythm helps me keeping the cadence. I turn it on or off as circumstance dictates.

[markusm]

So then...... tri ing hard..... hope we have helped

Looks like the etiquette is............. neither here nor there!