Rim/Tire queries

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Rim/Tire queries

Postby reags » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:01 pm

Evening all,

Over the last month or so I've been trying to iron out a bug in my front rim as it would always give off a 'clicking' sound whenever the wheel rotated. After heading to a another LBS for a second opinion as my original purchase store was quite unhelpful (Trek Store unfortunately), I was educated and informed that they ran several tests on it and have diagnosed the rim where the weld/bolts meets as having a slight gap (so it's not dead flush) which is causing the clicks. According to them the spokes, etc. are all tight and fine in tension so there's no problem there, though the constant clicking remains and the rim on its own is fine but once an inflated tire is in, the pressure causes the welded spot to be 'pushed'.

I've attached a pic to show the issue -

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My query is in your opinions, will the constant pressure on this un-flush welded spot be an issue in the long run especially with constant hopping/jumping stressing out the rims? Should I need a replacement rim or just leave it, deal with the clicks and ride hard?

Thanks everyone
Last edited by reags on Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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by BNA » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:10 pm

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Re: Buggered rim?

Postby trailgumby » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:10 pm

If it's clicking, that means there are two parts rubbing against each other, and that is not good. Ultimately it will end with some kind of fatigue failure. :| The trick is to determine whether it is the rim weld or something else like a loose spoke, maybe something with the hub, the disc rotor, or even a bit of swarf that's fallen in and is rattling around.

Does it happen when that bit you've marked is closest to the ground?
Can you see movement when you grab and try to move each end against the other by hand? (Might need to take tyre off.)
Does it happen with a different wheel?
What happens if you take the disc off?
Does it happen with a different tyre?

Can you process a warranty claim through the store that's done the analysis?
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Re: Buggered rim?

Postby reags » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:54 pm

Bummer that sucks re: fatigue failure.

To answer your questions -

Does it happen when that bit you've marked is closest to the ground?
Yes - only happens when the wheel is rotated on that one spot (welded spot)

Can you see movement when you grab and try to move each end against the other by hand? (Might need to take tyre off.)
Just did this - have the rim beside me and looks like there's high pressure rim tape sealing it so I can't actually see the weld (not sure if this was added today by LBS or came stock with bike setup - assuming it came with it as the rear also has it). In saying that, I can't feel any movement when I forcefully move both sides away from each other

Does it happen with a different wheel?
Nope just this front one

What happens if you take the disc off?
Haven't tried this as yet...I'm a bit new when it comes to pulling bits apart as I don't have all the tools and knowledge to reassemble it properly. Pretty certain it's not a disc though as when the tire is on/inflated to about 50PSI, when you squeeze it in that one spot you can hear the click

Does it happen with a different tyre?
According to my helpful LBS, still does - he oiled it as part of the testing process and it reduced the clicks slightly...for a short while

Can you process a warranty claim through the store that's done the analysis?
Doubt it as they're not Trek dealers so I may return to the Trek Store and fill them in on advice given here and LBS if you all think I should (someone's got to educate them!)

Cheers mate
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Re: Buggered rim?

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:37 pm

On the off chance...

I don't suppose there is some debris stuck in the tyre that makes noise at the coincidentally right spot?

Methinks a second opinion is definitely warranted as Mr Gumby suggests.

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Re: Buggered rim?

Postby reags » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:16 pm

I've just rechecked it thoroughly and everything looks clean as a whistle.

Yeah I may seek a third opinion (already had 2!).

I've got a really newbie question which I'm almost certain I'm right but anyway -

When reading a floor pump's gauge for tire PSI, are you supposed to read it as you pump or when you release and it idles? Just that I've pumped them up to 35-40 for road use and it feels way stiffer than when the shops supposedly inflated them up for me to 50 PSI. Hoping the pump isn't faulty as it's a new one too (Bontrager so it's not a yumcha brand)...unless you guys use a pressure gauge instead for checking?
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Re: Buggered rim?

Postby trailgumby » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:39 pm

My floor pump does that on some valves, not others. Annoying. :x I'd suggest the rubber on the valve head adapter is not sufficiently tight and is leaking air. Maybe tighten the faceplate that keeps the guts of the head in place a bit and see if that improves things. And to be honest, they're not the most accurate anyway, on mine it's 4psi between minor marks on the dial face.

The tyres I run are quite sensitive to pressure. Too hard and they're scary, too little air and they squirm around too much for my liking. 2-3psi in it only. So for peace of mind I have a BBB digital pressure gauge that lives in my Camelbak. I think it was less than $30 and only weighs a few grams.
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Re: Buggered rim?

Postby reags » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:21 pm

Sheesh it's been a comedy of errors on my end...I've just released the pressure and gone by feel for now - thanks for the tip think it's time to invest in a gauge!

As for the clicking - I'm starting to think it's tire rubber in contact with the welded segment as when I gently squeeze that precise spot on the tyre it triggers the click - and it clicks in relation to the speed/frequently I squeeze it.
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Buggered rim?

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:46 pm

Sometimes the valve stem can click every revolution... Maybe try putting a nut on or a rubber band just to rule it out.
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Re: Buggered rim?

Postby reags » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:58 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Sometimes the valve stem can click every revolution... Maybe try putting a nut on or a rubber band just to rule it out.


Pretty sure that's ruled out as the clicking is on the opposite side of the wheel to the valve. When I squeeze the rest of the tire it's flawless as it should be except that one spot right where the weld is which makes it a pain to diagnose :(

Sorry I just have one more newbie question - If I plan to change out the current factory stock 26x2.2 tyres, should I be sticking with the 2.2 spec. or am I safe to veer away from that and go with whatever I choose (such as 2.0 for example)?


Thanks again for your patience everyone as I'm on a steep learning curve here which hopefully I can pay it forward and help others out in future :)
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Re: Rim/Tire queries

Postby silentbutdeadly » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:22 am

You'll find you can fit whatever tyre width you like depending on the ride conditions. You're only limitation will be the frame if you try and fit even wider tyres like 2.5.

Be warned though, narrow tyres (smaller than 2.0) might have less roll resistance (so you can go faster) but they provide less suspension value (less air volume) and a potentially smaller tyre footprint....so if the conditions get soft (sand, mud) the handling goes away and if the conditions get rocky....the handling goes away. The 2.2 size you have is a good compromise size...

As for the gappity click...warraty is your first port of call. If that fails then the second port of call is your local engineering shop for a bottle of Loctite 435 or 438 or similar. It's a low viscosity cyanoacrylate glue that will bond metal...and they tend to last too.
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Re: Rim/Tire queries

Postby reags » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:29 pm

Thanks for the tips mate, guess it's back to the Trek store (again) sometime. Regarding the Loctite, how does it hold up against varying weather conditions that rims normally go through? Does it react with the tire rubber?
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Re: Rim/Tire queries

Postby silentbutdeadly » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:15 am

reags wrote:Regarding the Loctite, how does it hold up against varying weather conditions that rims normally go through? Does it react with the tire rubber?


Don't know. Honestly I've never used it on rims. Have used it on brakes (U tube on V brakes). However I suspect it'll be fine. It won't react with tyre rubber once it is dry. This stuff is essentially a fancy kind of super glue
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Re: Rim/Tire queries

Postby trailgumby » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:49 pm

Loctite can react with certain types of plastic - I used it once on a Tamiya Wild Willy (who remembers? those :lol: ) and ... um ... the result wasn't good. :(

Should be OK with the butyl rubber used in tyres and tubes, but test first on an old tyre or tube you don't care about.
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Re: Rim/Tire queries

Postby reags » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:17 am

I ended up bringing it back to the Trek store for another checkup and even demo'd the clicking to them so there's no mistaking - it's there. The guy (Ben iirc) was adamant that in the MTB rim they add a piece of shim/spacer between the weld - not sure why and I didn't bother to ask. I haven't had a real chance to ride it since Wednesday but am hoping to. As far as I know he's added a bit of glue to those shims so the popping is muffled last I checked but unsure if it'll be a permanent fix as the first time he added glue it lasted a whole 10mins.
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Re: Rim/Tire queries

Postby orbeas » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:38 am

checked the magnet for the speedo transducer, if you have one?
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Re: Rim/Tire queries

Postby reags » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:21 am

orbeas wrote:checked the magnet for the speedo transducer, if you have one?


Yep it was the first thing I checked and is definitely not that as the sound comes from the tire/rim when squeezed gently (and subsequently worse on road with weight on it).
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Re: Rim/Tire queries

Postby trailgumby » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm

For all the faffing about, they could have just got you to leave the bike in the store a few days, got the Trek rep in to take a look, and have gotten a new wheel in for you.

Care to tell us which shop this is?
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Re: Rim/Tire queries

Postby reags » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:46 am

trailgumby wrote:For all the faffing about, they could have just got you to leave the bike in the store a few days, got the Trek rep in to take a look, and have gotten a new wheel in for you.

Care to tell us which shop this is?


Totally agree, though I've found their service post handing your hard earned dollars over is quite mediocre.

Ironically this was the Trek Store at Rouse Hill which many here would know Charles the boss. He was friendly and courteous up until the transaction. I informed him of the problem initially a few weeks ago, he had a quick look at it but could find nothing, then proceeded to tell me to just deal with it and 'think of the children starving as there's worse things in life' in front of his other customers. So I brought the bike back on Wednesday to avoid him as I know he's not in then and had Ben attempt to fix it a second time (first time was a few weeks ago). What I've found is that these guys aren't very keen on replacements but rather quick fixes.

It's alright so far, though the front brake is a little squishy/almost hits my knuckles when fully engaged and pads are rubbing like a madman so it's back to Bike Shop (AT) Castle Hill tomorrow if this lovely summer storm passes.
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Re: Rim/Tire queries

Postby trailgumby » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:12 pm

reags wrote:I informed him of the problem initially a few weeks ago, he had a quick look at it but could find nothing, then proceeded to tell me to just deal with it and 'think of the children starving as there's worse things in life' in front of his other customers.

Worse things like suffering a front wheel failure at speed on a technical descent? Or worse things like a complaint to the Department of Fair Trading?

Maybe he should "just deal with it" by making a phone call, and 'think of the bike shop owners who are hungry to provide better service' ... and who now are looking increasingly attractive for your future business?

Rim joints should not creak. Creaking noises indicate parts rubbing together that should not and are possibly cracked.
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Re: Rim/Tire queries

Postby reags » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:31 pm

Agreed on all fronts. Will definitely keep an eye on this over the coming days.
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