Older MTB Question/Project

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Older MTB Question/Project

Postby christophers94 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:34 pm

Hello fellow BNA members,

I have a question about steel MTB's. In the bellow picture is a repco skyline that i painted it's a Hi Tensile steel frame, it's original paint was shocking (yes worse than my paint job). Anyhow i'm in need of a MTB as i've outgrown my last one several years ago and haven't ever got around to getting a new one.

Firstly i was hoping that a few members could explain the difference between Hi Tensile Steel and Cro Mo or similar, i understand Cro Mo is better but why?
I'm in need of a project and soon will have some dollars to spend, i've compiled a ''wishlist'' on CRC that would cater for a complete Shimano Deore spec rebuild except for wheels, i have a 10 speed compatible 26" wheelset.

So another question, should i wait untill i find a better frame/fork? or go ahead with this build?
The bike would be used for Rail Trails, light touring maybe some more technical stuff.

I don't mind that it hasn't got suspension but is it possible to put a suspension fork in this type of frame? Ive measured across the headtube and it's 1 1/8 inch across but does that mean it'll take a suspension fork? Anyway thats less important as that would be a future upgrade.


Image picture

More pictures are here: http://s1115.photobucket.com/albums/k54 ... 20skyline/

Thanks for any advice Christopher.
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by BNA » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:30 pm

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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby Nobody » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:30 pm

christophers94 wrote:Firstly i was hoping that a few members could explain the difference between Hi Tensile Steel and Cro Mo or similar, i understand Cro Mo is better but why?

Wikipedia wrote:Cheaper steel bicycle frames are made of mild steel, such as might be used to manufacture automobiles or other common items. However, higher-quality bicycle frames are made of high strength steel alloys (generally chromium-molybdenum, or "chromoly" steel alloys) which can be made into lightweight tubing with very thin wall gauges

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_fr ... _materials

http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=29
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby trailgumby » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:28 pm

Was the 1 /18 head tube the external diameter or the internal diameter. I notice your bike in the photo has a quill stem instead of threadless, so it's unlikely to be the internal diameter. In that case you'll find it difficult.

If you really want a steel frame mtb (and I understand why, they're nice to ride) with a decent modern fork, there are options available albeit not cheap ones. Try Spot bikes. I tried one of their 29ers last year... niiiiice :D
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby christophers94 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:17 pm

Hey Trailgumby,

it was the diametre across the internal after i popped the headset out? i'm probably measuring it wrong :/ i'll post a pic when i can of what i'm measuring.
I'm not to concerned about not being able to fit a modern suspension fork, it would just be nice. Yeah it's just a quill stem but i'm going to use an adapter and a modern stem.

As for the spot bikes, i don't think i can afford one unfortunatly :P

And thanks to Nobody for the links.

Christopher.
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby Jean » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:21 am

On-one do good steel MTB frames (in various formats) for pretty good prices, as seen here. They have an Australian distributor too, but their range is pretty limted. Presumably you can buy direct from the UK still. They are very popular frames - I've been tempted by them quite frequently. I'm trying to resist the urge to start a project with one of their 29er frames at the moment.

It raises the fork question though. You could stick with a rigid for not too much money, but once you look at a suspension fork the costs will go up according to taste/ambition/budget.

For your original proposal, if you think the curent bike will do what you want it to do then there's no particular reason to not do it. There's no pretending the basic frame is anything to write home about, but if it suits your needs and budget, why not? It would be easy to over capitalise though, so I'd suggest you keep the upgrades as modest as you think you can. I'm doing something similar with an old steel MTB frame (of no notable pedigree) using bits I can scrape together so as to have a beater for riding with the kids.
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby trailgumby » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:29 am

Most forks have a 1 1/8" steerer as a minimum, although even those are going out of fashion and becoming runout models as the market leaders go to 1 9/16" to 1 1/8" tapered.

If your head tube is 1 1/8" ID, you might struggle to get the headset for a 1 1/8" steerer fork in place. Sounds like you need a 1" steerer fork, which if you're after a suspended fork, will be pretty much "vintage" in mountain bike terms.

Sticking with your rigid fork is probably the most cost-effective solution while you save up for something more modern.
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby christophers94 » Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:11 pm

I'm hearing all your suggestions and i particully like the look of the on one frames. not overly expensive either which is what we want.

As with headset it takes a 1 inch threaded so defiantly no hope of using modern forks, but that is okay.

I think i will buy a groupset and handlebars, seat and pretty much everything, as if i end up saving a bit more i can always tranfer this stuff to a newer frame or better frame. The wheels i have are also disc capable so if i do purchase a modern frame/fork combo i can update which is a plus.

I have looked at buying new bikes in the $1000-$1600 price range but then it's not a project and it's less personal.

Another plus is i have most or all of the tools needed to fit everything/ take off and i've got time, if i find a nicer steel frame i'd love to give it a paint job too, which makes it even more original/ personal.

Should i post a wanted to buy for a nicer steel framed MTB or save some coin and invest in an On One frame / modern fork or similar? I'm quite happy to use the older frame untill i can get a better frame or who knows i might just like it. I've decided to cap the budget at whatever money i earn these holidays then it'll be saved for buying a car and uni.

Once i've got a MTB i'll be sorted for a while.

Thanks for your input again Christopher.
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby drubie » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:59 am

Steel frames with 1 1/8" steerers aren't uncommon - I have two (a Giant ATX and a Learsport Fuji frame I just gave away).

If you wanted a small (and I mean small) giant ATX with a 1 1/8" steerer I can help you out - would build up nicely, has the odd dent in it and the bottom bracket needs replacing but I have the matching rigid fork but no headset. If you want it and it'll fit you, I can post it. PM for info and photos.
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby christophers94 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:54 pm

Hey Drubie,

Thanks for your offer of the frame unfortunatly i'm on the larger variety, 6 foot and growing. However thankyou for your offer.

Chrstopher
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby silentbutdeadly » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:10 pm

Check out the Fitzroy Revolution in Melbourne as they have a few old stock KHS 29er frames that might suit you for around $200 with a Surly fork. http://www.fitzroyrevolution.com.au/hom ... rames.html
Failing that...keep an eye on CRC as I scored a NOS Scott cyclocross frame for $180 delivered and something similar in MTB does pop up from time to time
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby jbchybridrider » Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:12 am

Thats a good link there. I was tempted by the KHS solo one for $150 but there a bit too big.
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby christophers94 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:18 pm

Thanks for that link they look like nice bikes.

However i've lined up a nice tange prestige frame which i'll use.

Now i have another question should i go deore 9 speed or deore 10 speed? Is there any great improvement thats worth the extra $100? With the extra hundred i could probably get the frame powdercoated in town, they do a nice job. Or should i be patient and save up that extra bit and go modern 10 speed and powdercoat?

I'm keen for the 10 speed as it offers more range on the cassette, plus it's newer.

Thanks Christopher.
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:12 pm

Firstly i reckon the paint job actually looks ok, especially if you haven't got much experience, my first attempt looked a LOT worse.

The posts above have explained everything pretty well, but my two bobs worth is that i really enjoy riding my early 90s Graecross (which is very heavy Hi-Ten, and no suspension), and i ride it on some pretty technical stuff. I'm only doing that to force myself to ride more smoothly, a lighter, smoother bike is always more fun but don't discount the mouldy oldies :) .
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby christophers94 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:25 pm

Haha thanks idrecycles,

That bike i'm not actually going to use anymore, however i do agree the "mouldy oldies" have a nice feel and are very capable.

The new frame i'm going to use pending sale, will need a paint and the guy in at bairnsdale powdercoaters does a really nice job.

oh and that was my first painting experience using good quality spray paint, i'd probably not do it again unless i wanted a really specific look.

Thanks Christopher.
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby silentbutdeadly » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:02 pm

christophers94 wrote:Now i have another question should i go deore 9 speed or deore 10 speed? Is there any great improvement thats worth the extra $100? With the extra hundred i could probably get the frame powdercoated in town, they do a nice job. Or should i be patient and save up that extra bit and go modern 10 speed and powdercoat?

I'm keen for the 10 speed as it offers more range on the cassette, plus it's newer.


Good score with the frame.

I wouldn't bother with Deore 10spd. The 9 spd is fine but if you want 10spd then you'd be better off moving up the range to XT especially with the shifters. I run the 9 spd Deore group on the daily thresher because it was cheap enough and very durable - and it works very well. But the shifters are merely adequate compared to the 10 spd XT on my 29er. That said...in my experience the 9spd chains last longer than the 10 spd...

If thee were me then...9spd. Flexible, durable, affordable and nearly always suitable.
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby christophers94 » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:13 pm

Thanks for your opinions and comments Silent but deadly.

I've read and seen different opinions of the new and old deore components, i feel that for my needs either would suffice, however the suggestion of xt is interesting. I'm limited by a budget, so would there be areas that would be better being the higher spec? For instense using deore cranks and front derailer with XT shifters and rear derailer with a slx cassete?

So in short what areas would be better being the higher spec either 9 or 10? I'm fairly light weight, and like to think i care for my bikes, so if ten speed needs more care thats all good.

Loving everyone's opions thanks Christopher.
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby christophers94 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:44 pm

Hey again just put together a little spec list that i'm thinking of ordering for the new frame,
It's not final so if i'm missing something vital please say.

-Shimano Deore V-Brake Levers M591
-Deore V Brakes M590
-Shimano SLX Cassette 10 Speed HG62
-SRAM Powerlink Connector
2 Pack - 10sp Powerlock
-Funn XC Stem 2012
-Brand-X Quill Adaptor Alloy
-Funn XC Flat Bar 2012
-Shimano Bottom Bracket Gear Cable Guide
-Shimano XT Front Mech Conventional 10sp M786
-Shimano XT Shifters 10sp M770
-Shimano XT Shifters 10sp M770
-Shimano Deore XT Rear Derailleur 10sp M780
-Shimano HG94 Chain 10 Speed
-Selle Italia X0 Flow Saddle 2011
-Shimano SLX Chainset Triple M660

All Up the above is around $650 so i think thats pretty good for a build it's only about 60 or so more than the 10 speed deore i had planned out, and i think this is worth the extra :).

Thanks Christopher
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby silentbutdeadly » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:36 am

Not a bad list of gear. I'd bin the SRAM Powerlink and the Shimano chain though. Just get a KMC X10 chain which comes with a reusable link and is better (IMO) than either SRAM or Shimano chains...plus they are cheaper.
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby christophers94 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:14 pm

Long time no post ;P tis time for an update.

silentbutdeadly wrote:
I'd bin the SRAM Powerlink and the Shimano chain though. Just get a KMC X10 chain which comes with a reusable link and is better (IMO) than either SRAM or Shimano chains


I have noted this however on advice from the local bike shop and from his experience he thinks the shimano chain will just work better, plus apparently kmc make shimano chains anyway.

Now on the more important much juicier info, parts have been ordered and expected this week, wheels have been delivered and frame is due back from the powdercoaters tomorrow or tuesday! Yes ladies and Gents it is Delivery week!

Changes had to be made to the spec list and with great pleasure i can say it is a full xt groupo including v brakes, excluding wheels. It came about through a sequance of events that i got a higher pay day one week and could splash out on full XT and when ordering the group set off the LBS, well lets just say the cranks are cheaper than what you would be able to find Deore online. Lucky me! Right place right time.

Other items i am yet to purchase include XT Trail pedals and some sort of shoes, also some bike kit stuff like saddle bag, mini pump and a multi tool.

Am very keen to start buillding the beast and keen to show it off, but keener to start riding it!
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby christophers94 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:36 pm

Image

It's not yet finished, but just to show everyone it's real :D i'm so excited to start riding it.
The Colour is French blue and the only original equipment is the frame/forks, headset and rear Deore (XT?) U Brake.
Just waiting for the right hand gear changer, rear brake pads and shoes, Crank brothers clipless pedals and Shimano XC50 shoes.
Got to love the local bike store who had Deore XT cranks going for $110.
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby trailgumby » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:48 pm

Larsen TT on the front... that's adventurous :D
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby christophers94 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:56 pm

And why would that be Mr Trailgumby?
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby trailgumby » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:13 pm

Not known for great cornering grip, especially as you crank the bike over. Outstanding as a rear tyre, though: great low rolling resistance, excellent braking traction, and when they break loose they do so progressively.

Maybe go a 2.35 Ignitor or Crossmark on the front? Your front is your control tyre, you don't want it to break traction, 'cause it hurts when you hit the deck. :x :oops:

The extra Larsen wo'lt be wasted - you'll replace your rear tyre a lot more frequently than the front, which usually lasts for ages.
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby gururug » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:18 pm

christophers94 wrote:Image


WIsh I could get two cages on the downtube! looking sweet 8)
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Re: Older MTB Question/Project

Postby christophers94 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:40 pm

Thanks Gururug the double bottle holder thing is completely original, at first i didn't think it'd really work, but two bottles fit fine. :D

Thanks Trailgumby, i'll see how i go, however i defiantly won't hesitate to buy a new front tyre if i find i'm sliding. I previously had some ignitors, however they never saw a good proper fair dinkum MTB track just the gravel rail trails and dirt roads, so i don't have an opinion about there cornering abilities but i might give them a go. would your recomendation change if they were to be used in a muddy/ loose environment? I noticed my boss and owner of the LBS uses schwalbe on all of his bikes, however just for the looks thing i'd like to keep maxxis. (Just realising that Schwalbe has blue font on their tyres :P)

Super keen for the right hand gear changer to arrive so i can put on the chain!!!

Thanks Christopher
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