Gearing for climbs

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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby colaiacw » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:41 am

sogood wrote:
colaiacw wrote:I am rarely in the 39/25 combination for the climbs unless I am really stuffed.

then you are either super strong or don't have much of a climb. :p


Lots of climbs trust me, not much over 1km in length though. I am not really super strong, I have learnt to ride efficiently.
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by BNA » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:46 am

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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby sogood » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:46 am

colaiacw wrote:Lots of climbs trust me, not much over 1km in length though. I am not really super strong, I have learnt to ride efficiently.

There's precious little one can do to climb efficiently if one doesn't have the gearing to match power. To be efficient, one needs to spin. And if you can still keep a decent cadence with 39/23 or higher, then either you have the power or the gradient is insufficiently extreme.
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby Baldy » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:03 pm

sogood wrote:
colaiacw wrote:Lots of climbs trust me, not much over 1km in length though. I am not really super strong, I have learnt to ride efficiently.

There's precious little one can do to climb efficiently if one doesn't have the gearing to match power. To be efficient, one needs to spin. And if you can still keep a decent cadence with 39/23 or higher, then either you have the power or the gradient is insufficiently extreme.


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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby ausrandoman » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:17 pm

colaiacw wrote: Lots of climbs trust me, not much over 1km in length though.

What is the gradient?
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby colaiacw » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:53 pm

ausrandoman wrote:
colaiacw wrote: Lots of climbs trust me, not much over 1km in length though.

What is the gradient?


It varies, but the hardest section is around 900 meters that averages at 11% and peaks at 14%. There are not many flat sections on the 90 km route that i ride. They are just big hills not mountains.

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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby sogood » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:23 pm

colaiacw wrote:It varies, but the hardest section is around 900 meters that averages at 11% and peaks at 14%. There are not many flat sections on the 90 km route that i ride. They are just big hills not mountains.

I am satisfied that you have the power to not have to drop into 39/25 at 14%. :D
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:29 pm

I've found over the years that while I have got much quicker at climbing gears, that my preference is for lower gears so to use higher cadences. This year in the Grafton to Inverall, I was quicker climbing the 18k hill than last year. However I would of preferred a lower gear than I had available, even though it was the same gear I used the previous year with no issues at all
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby ausrandoman » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:41 pm

colaiacw:
You obviously have a much higher power to weight ratio than me. 8)

mikesbytes:
You are not alone. When I first took up cycling, in the days of five speed screw-on clusters, 28 tooth cogs were for touring and recreational bikes and no self-respecting racer would use anything bigger than 13-15-17-19-21. Nowadays, even elite road men sometimes use 32 tooth cogs on extreme climbs. I guess the availability of 10 or 11 cog cassettes instead of 5 cog clusters and better knowledge of physiology has led to greater use of lower gears.

I can't prove it but I think one reason that I can now ride as fast as I could 40 years ago* is that I have never slogged along in big gears. Another reason (for me) is better knowledge of training and cheap heart rate monitors.

*Which, I should point out, is not particularly fast and never was. :lol:
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby pawnii » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:43 am

does anyone climb out of the saddle at 90rpm?

I've been slowing down my cadence to about 70-75 when out of the saddle and i find can maintain speed/heart rate for longer on steep >10% sections.
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby AndrewBurns » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:05 pm

Rode akuna bay today, about 650m climbing over a few km and I think up to about 9% grade. Found it quite easy to be honest, sat on the 34 chainring and 29 rear cog and spun at between 80 and 90 rpm the whole time (doing about 15kph :P ) Passing a few people on the way up. I can stand and mash, but not for km at a time.
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby Daccordi Rider » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:57 pm

pawnii wrote:does anyone climb out of the saddle at 90rpm?

I've been slowing down my cadence to about 70-75 when out of the saddle and i find can maintain speed/heart rate for longer on steep >10% sections.


Hi Pawnii, that's very common. I find if I concentrate on my knee lift when out of the saddle it helps maintain a 90 climbing cadence on those tougher pinches. You will find this is where you can drop most people (if that is your pleasure :twisted: ), few people can maintain cadence out of the saddle without blowing quickly but it certainly takes practice.
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby ireland57 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:45 pm

Daccordi Rider wrote:
pawnii wrote:does anyone climb out of the saddle at 90rpm?

I've been slowing down my cadence to about 70-75 when out of the saddle and i find can maintain speed/heart rate for longer on steep >10% sections.


Hi Pawnii, that's very common. I find if I concentrate on my knee lift when out of the saddle it helps maintain a 90 climbing cadence on those tougher pinches. You will find this is where you can drop most people (if that is your pleasure :twisted: ), few people can maintain cadence out of the saddle without blowing quickly but it certainly takes practice.


Daccordi,

Could you be more specific about "knee lift"? Do you mean positioning, timing, (um, that's about it) or something else?

Cheers
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Gearing for climbs

Postby pawnii » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:54 pm

Hmmm knee lift aye? Fantastic idea! I'll give it a go. I see the pro dudes on tv off the saddle for ages when they climb. Wish I looked that comfortable :)

Ireland... I assume it's timing. Getting a feel for and maintaining cadence.
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby sogood » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:13 am

pawnii wrote:Hmmm knee lift aye? Fantastic idea! I'll give it a go. I see the pro dudes on tv off the saddle for ages when they climb. Wish I looked that comfortable :)

You just have to train that's all, and so do the pros to achieve that. Find a long hill and repeat. Over a period of weeks to months, aim to extend the point by which you must sit down.
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby Daccordi Rider » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:11 pm

ireland57 wrote:
Daccordi Rider wrote:
pawnii wrote:does anyone climb out of the saddle at 90rpm?

I've been slowing down my cadence to about 70-75 when out of the saddle and i find can maintain speed/heart rate for longer on steep >10% sections.


Hi Pawnii, that's very common. I find if I concentrate on my knee lift when out of the saddle it helps maintain a 90 climbing cadence on those tougher pinches. You will find this is where you can drop most people (if that is your pleasure :twisted: ), few people can maintain cadence out of the saddle without blowing quickly but it certainly takes practice.


Daccordi,

Could you be more specific about "knee lift"? Do you mean positioning, timing, (um, that's about it) or something else?

Cheers


Sure, what I mean is when out of the saddle concentrate on the pull part of the pedal stroke by focussing on pulling the knee up towards the handlebars. I reckon most people when standing only push down and hence the cadence slows a lot and they lose the effeciency of the pedalling action (push/pull). You also will generate more power and help with those steeper pinches whilst maintaining speed.

So Good is right about the training bit, find a nice long hill, get out of the saddle and go as far as possible. Keep repeating, this is a neglected part of cycling I think and one that is reasonably easy to get significant gains in. Hope this is of some help.
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby sogood » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:29 pm

Just follow this guy's training method for standing climbs (repeat and repeat and repeat) and you'll soon conquer Alp d'Huez amongst the best! :wink:


Then when you are back down in your saddle...
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby sumgy » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:47 pm

I have watched that Carmichael video a couple of times now.
His 90RPM looks more like 70RPM to me(unless he has cadence sensors on both cranks).
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby sogood » Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:02 pm

sumgy wrote:I have watched that Carmichael video a couple of times now.
His 90RPM looks more like 70RPM to me(unless he has cadence sensors on both cranks).

Yes, noted that. But he is the coach, Lance is his star pupil with the abilities. :mrgreen:
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby sumgy » Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:06 pm

Yep.
I have had coaches like that.
"Do as I say, not as I do". :mrgreen:
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby sogood » Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:14 pm

In any case, CC wouldn't have been able to instruct in the video if he had been spinning at 90-100. :wink:
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:30 pm

CC was just a cover for an Italian Ferrari...they always have ways of getting up hills fast.
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby ireland57 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:46 pm

[quote="Daccordi Rider
Sure, what I mean is when out of the saddle concentrate on the pull part of the pedal stroke by focussing on pulling the knee up towards the handlebars. I reckon most people when standing only push down and hence the cadence slows a lot and they lose the effeciency of the pedalling action (push/pull). You also will generate more power and help with those steeper pinches whilst maintaining speed.

So Good is right about the training bit, find a nice long hill, get out of the saddle and go as far as possible. Keep repeating, this is a neglected part of cycling I think and one that is reasonably easy to get significant gains in. Hope this is of some help.[/quote]

Cheers.

I'll hit it in the morning and see what happens.
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby ireland57 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:44 pm

I spent all last year learning how to pedal and training my legs and crook knees to do as they're asked.
I've also been concentrating on good form on the bike. I did very few hills, efforts or long distance (over 80kms) during this time.
There is a price to pay for that but it was worth it.

Just now have I been able to focus on pulling up pedals while standing; man does that work a treat?
Instant easiness/power/increase in speed when I do it properly.

All in all it was the best thing I could've done for myself.

The changes it's made are basically: -

2 mins quicker up a 10% 4km climb;
using a compact, not the triple I had 16 mths ago;
using a 25 cassette in lieu of the 28; sitting better on the bike as well.
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby doggatas » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:09 am

What VAM are you achieving on the climbs?
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Re: Gearing for climbs

Postby SquareWheels » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:14 pm

Drunkmonkey wrote:Most people dont know how to climb properly, they just do what is needed to get over the hill......or slight incline in some cases!!


sigh...that's me unfortunately. Hate hills/inclines but trying to get better by getting my gearing sorted at the base first. Sorta works. Still lots to learn. At least I am not actively looking for ways to avoid hills anymore so that's an improvement right? :?
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