Knee banging top tube
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Knee banging top tube
Postby AndrewBurns » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:34 pm
Any ideas? Should I just adjust my right cleat to point my toe outwards slightly or is it a more fundamental problem? It's only a glancing blow on the bony inside of my knee but I have quite a bruise there now.
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby sogood » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:41 pm
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby rkelsen » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:54 pm
But, as per above, definitely a fit issue.
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby Percrime » Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:40 am
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby trailgumby » Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:09 pm
I've recently come to the conclusion that it is in part driven by my having a varus forefoot... the joint at the base of my big toe sits naturally higher than my little toe, causing my ankle to want to roll inwards slightly, turning my lower leg in slightly, and pulling my knee in to the top tube. I have to concentrate on keeping my knees above the pedal, but inevitably that lapses and I revert to my knees-inward stroke.
How do I fix that? Well, trying to adjust myself to the bike with physio is having limited success. I am looking at getting Specialised BG insoles, which come with forefoot shims which go under the insole to allow you to adjust the angle at which your foot sits on the pedal: 2 x 1.5mm varus and 1 x 1.5mm valgus shims.
I'm expecting that by fitting either 1 x 1.5 or 2 x 1.5mm varus shims, it should be much easier to get my knees to naturally track straight over my second toe without having to think about it.
The other option is that recommended by Steve Hogg: eSoles
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby Apple » Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:47 pm
It does sound strange.
Speak your mind,Those that mind dont matter, Those that matter dont mind!!
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby AndrewBurns » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:17 pm
I went for a 67km ride today (my longest yet) and I had minimal knee banging so perhaps putting my seat back up has made a difference (before when I was having the issue I noticed my carbon seat post was also slipping down during the ride, as much as 5mm, Richeys liquid torque has worked wonders with that).
Thanks for the help everyone, I'd love to get a pro bike fit like from Steve Hogg but I'm still such an amateur at the road cycling thing I don't feel like I could justify the expense Perhaps when I start racing and if I do it enough to really get some value out of it I will.
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby trailgumby » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:21 pm
That guy is uncanny.
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby Apple » Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:03 pm
Even more why you should get a bike fit with Steve, get you set up before you get injuries, Steve set me up. He sets up anyone even your grandma or the senile lady next door if she rides. It’s all about comfort, power efficiency and prevention of injuryAndrewBurns wrote:I I'd love to get a pro bike fit like from Steve Hogg but I'm still such an amateur at the road cycling thing I don't feel like I could justify the expense Perhaps when I start racing and if I do it enough to really get some value out of it I will.
Speak your mind,Those that mind dont matter, Those that matter dont mind!!
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby trailgumby » Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:56 pm
+1. An ouce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.Apple wrote:Even more why you should get a bike fit with Steve, get you set up before you get injuries, Steve set me up. He sets up anyone even your grandma or the senile lady next door if she rides. It’s all about comfort, power efficiency and prevention of injuryAndrewBurns wrote:I I'd love to get a pro bike fit like from Steve Hogg but I'm still such an amateur at the road cycling thing I don't feel like I could justify the expense Perhaps when I start racing and if I do it enough to really get some value out of it I will.
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby Baldy » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:19 pm
You cant discount technique either, it takes practice but you do need to rule out the bike fit first.
Good luck with it
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Knee banging top tube
Postby Dr_Mutley » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:01 am
Or better still, a proper bike fit
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby sumgy » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:41 am
Not necessarily true. According to Steve Hogg most fit issues he sees are due to a seat height that is too high.Percrime wrote:foots not tracking true. Possibly the seats too low and thats contributing. Tweak it up a tad.. see what that does
I would agree that it is a tracking problem which could be due to many things.
As always I recommend that you take a look at Steve Hogg's website .
Read these topics in this order:
The right side bias
Seat Height, how hard can it be
Seat set back for road bikes
Addendum to road pedals, which are best
Power to the Pedal - Cleat Position
Foot Correction Part 1
Also read "Perspectives on Fitting".[/quote]
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby sumgy » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:48 am
Having used both, I will say that the 2 options are very different.trailgumby wrote:
The other option is that recommended by Steve Hogg: eSoles
The e-Soles have much greater flexibility of fit than the BG's so that you can swap out the arch support to suit each foot seperately.
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Knee banging top tube
Postby sogood » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:43 pm
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby mikesbytes » Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:44 pm
Are you around this arvo/evening? if so, you could drop by my place in Tempe and I could have a look while you ride on a trainer.
If that turns out to be the problem, I'll correct you cleat if its the cause, otherwise there's other adjustments I can look at
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby AndrewBurns » Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:36 am
Any ideas? I know at this point I should probably go get a fit done by somebody, it's just a fair bit of money to drop when I've only been cycling for a few months. If I had to guess I'd say it's a combination of leg asymmetry and my flat feet/pronating ankles but I don't know enough myself to attempt to fix it.
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby Nobody » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:16 pm
I see a lot of people that are out riding recreationally with at least one knee (usually the right) pointing out and sometimes both knees out. I was told I used to do this too (both knees out) in my 20s. I don't appear to do it anymore (in my 40s). Although my fit has changed, I may have also trained myself out of it. At times I try to be conscious of my knee tracking.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/pain.html#kneesSheldon Brown wrote:Something the doctors don't seem to think of suggesting, but which really helped me a lot, is to make a concious effort to avoid lateral knee movement during the pedal stroke. Watch your knees as you ride (in a low-traffic setting!) They should move up and down as you pedal, with no sideward motion. Many cyclists have a sideways hitch in their pedaling motion, which I believe is a major contributor to chondromalacia. If you pay occasional attention to this, it doesn't take long to train yourself to keep the knees in line.
Maybe a visit to a physio may help.
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Re: Knee banging top tube
Postby trailgumby » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:38 pm
Stood on their foot-o-meter to determine whether I needed a low, medium or high arch - a very cool device using body heat to take a footprint. High it was. Worked out size next. 45 was too big, 44 was perfect - no trimming required.
Pedalled briefly on a roadie fitted to a Greg Lemond trainer. The footbed with the metatarsal button felt distinctly weird, but I noticed an immediate improvement in knee alignment through the pedal stroke.
Will go for an extended ride tomorrow (have a cold today ) and take the varus shims with me in my pocket to do a bit of fine tuning on the way. Report to follow
They also have an arse-o-meter to measure your sit bones width
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Knee banging top tube
Postby Dr_Mutley » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:40 pm
Yr right, what u describe is a pretty common symptom of a pronating foot +\- collapsing arch. If u have a good arch supporting innersole in a pair of runners, stick them in yr road shoes an see if that reduces your tendency to drift into the top tube. Specialized sell a BG fit footbed which comes with varus and valgus wedges to correct forefoot and arch biomechanics.AndrewBurns wrote:Thanks to Mike for giving me a hand on his trainer and trying a few different shoes with different cleat setups. Turns out there's definitely something wrong with me, my right knee tracks an off-axis circle when I pedal. Basically my right knee moves outward during the 'up' part of the stroke and then pushes back inwards during the 'down' part of the stroke (at which point it hits the top tube sometimes). The lateral movement of the knee is probably 20 or 30mm, using pedals and cleats with 0 float helps a bit but only by restraining my foot and reducing the motion of the knee, the knee still wants to move side to side when pedalling.
Any ideas? I know at this point I should probably go get a fit done by somebody, it's just a fair bit of money to drop when I've only been cycling for a few months. If I had to guess I'd say it's a combination of leg asymmetry and my flat feet/pronating ankles but I don't know enough myself to attempt to fix it.
A quick n crude indicator of seeing if u need some correction, is stand in yr normal stance (in bare feet) move your weight lateral a little over one foot and do a 1/4 to 1/2 squat. If yr knee bends over your 2nd toe then u need no correction. If your knee tracks to the midline then u need a degree of varus correction u til your knee tracks over your second toe. If it tracks laterally (outside your foot) then u need sore valgus correction. Hope that helps a little.
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBC ... spid=57994
*Diclaimer: I am the CEO of specialized so buy lots of them (just kidding - they just work well for me)
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