New 29er MTB which one?

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New 29er MTB which one?

Postby bosvit » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:26 pm

Hey Dirty Dudes

I am thinking about crossing over to the dirty side.

Looking at getting a 29er and I am going to buy from my lbs due to such a good track record in the past.

Giant's are not offering enough for the money IMO

Bianchi?

Cannondale, well my money pit it not full enough

Apollo seem to offer the best deals atm.

$1000 for this one. xpert290 mostly sram x7, alex rims
http://www.apollobikes.com/bikes12/29er/xpert290

or $1500 for this one. xpert291 mostly slx, easton povo rims, better forks
http://www.apollobikes.com/bikes12/29er/xpert291

I've basically got $1300 in the kitty so is the 291 $500 better value?

Cheers ya dirty buggers!
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by BNA » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:27 pm

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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby Mugglechops » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:27 pm

I would get the 291. It has a better frame, fork and wheels so I would say its worth the extra.
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby trailgumby » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:53 pm

Definitely the 291. Dramatically better spec... although I would prefer a 100mm fork, but that's just me and probably my local terrain.
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby bosvit » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:58 pm

trailgumby wrote:Definitely the 291. Dramatically better spec... although I would prefer a 100mm fork, but that's just me and probably my local terrain.

Thanks guys.

trailgumby locally I did notice a 100mm rock.......

If mountain biking in Pt Lincoln was graded the same as skiing there would be a hell of a lot of green beginner circles.... 8)
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby mitzikatzi » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:20 pm

The 291 has low spoke count wheels.
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trailgumby wrote:29ers are awesome.
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby A_P » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:41 pm

If you are a featherweight, then the 291 would probably suit you well. If not, then a 100mm fork ( w/15QR axle if possible) higher spoke count wheels and larger front disk rotor would be an advantage.
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby silentbutdeadly » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:51 am

+1 for the 291...especially for the Port Lincoln area. The stiffer front end as a result of the tapered head tube will help control on the sand and give you a fine upgrade path for forks and wheels - which should have a QR15 to be really stiff. The rest of the package is fine enough for a few thousand kays.

Tyres should be fine round there though I'd think about going to a Maxxis Crossmark style pattern in the rear as the small block Kenda type patterns don't fancy cornering on fine loose gravel over hard pack
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby sblack » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:27 am

I bought the 290 after also considering the 291. There where a few reasons for the decision:

1. I didn't have the extra money so it was either save longer or go interest free for the 291 (interest free means paying sticker price so it would be $600 more than the discounted 290)

2. The 290 was in stock, I'd have to wait around a month for the 291 which meant I wouldn't have had it until after my holidays.

3. The primary role would be for towing my son with some added options for the commute and trying out some off roading being bonuses to that. I reasoned if the off roading took off then neither bike would satisfy me for long and I'd be looking to upgrade anway. The money saved in going for the 290 means the upgrade will be affordable that bit sooner.

So now onto the bike, I've been happy with it as an entry into the off road world. As you've said in terms of value the Apollos are hard to go past with others in the same price range that I looked at all having lower spec components and 9 speed drivetrains. My skills need a lot of improvement before I feel it's worth considering what makes a better bike and my guess is the only difference I'd notice in the 291 is that the Shimano shifters aren't the same as the SRAM. The one thing I'd be interested in seeing is whether the different fork and wheels have less flex. This is not something I notice in the feel of the ride but when braking hard the top of the wheel visably moves closer to the left fork arm. I've only noticed it on road so far but I'm not sure if that's because it doesn't happen off road because traction becomes and issue first or because I'm too busy concentrating on the trail ahead to see it.
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby bosvit » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:27 pm

Thanks guys good points to think about there.

It is mostly going to be used on firetrails and dirt roads as there are quite a few good rides around here that are dirt road only and not in good enough condition for my roadie.

But hopefully I will get to go to Melrose occasionally where there is much better MTB riding.

I suffer from a severe case of Co-ordination Deficiency Syndrome, commonly known as CODS, and I was always the worst rider eg slowest and the most stacks when I used to ride my XR250 with my mates. So I can't see the point in buying anything better than this level of bike, plus the pain inflicted by the wife would not be worth it IMO LOL
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby Mugglechops » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:31 pm

Now days you get a lot of bike for not much money. I bought an alomost top of the range hardtail back in 1996 that cost $2500 and had cantilever brakes and a fork sprung with marshmellows.
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby gcouyant » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:55 pm

bosvit wrote:Thanks guys good points to think about there.

It is mostly going to be used on firetrails and dirt roads as there are quite a few good rides around here that are dirt road only and not in good enough condition for my roadie.

But hopefully I will get to go to Melrose occasionally where there is much better MTB riding.

I suffer from a severe case of Co-ordination Deficiency Syndrome, commonly known as CODS, and I was always the worst rider eg slowest and the most stacks when I used to ride my XR250 with my mates. So I can't see the point in buying anything better than this level of bike, plus the pain inflicted by the wife would not be worth it IMO LOL


Bosvit, if I were you I'd be looking past the spec level and looking for a bike that isn't going to try to kill you if you have a bit of a moment. CODS and mountain biking isn't a loving combination but good on you for giving it a red hot go.

Both of those bikes have pretty steep steerer angles and I doubt that either will have the balls to keep your face out of the dirt. Why a 29er? At that price point, would you consider a 26" bike with stiffer wheelset and tapered steerer? I reckon that you may be better off and spend more time on the trails and less time moaning. Mind you, if you survived an XR250s nervousness and you're here to talk about it, you've done very well.

I reckon that the pick of the bikes for someone with coordination issues is a fat bike like a Mukluk or a Pugsly. A bit out of the price range though, but not by much. You'd ride around with a big grin like a king d!#k and have nothing to prove :wink:
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby sblack » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:12 pm

gcouyant wrote:Both of those bikes have pretty steep steerer angles
I wasn't convinced the geometry charts where correct in this regard. Getting my seat right seamed to take far too much setback for the indicated 68.4 degree seat angle and visually I would have said the head angle looks to be less than the seat angle. So I just went and measured using my phone and got the seat tube as 19 degrees off vertical and the head tube as 22 degrees off vertical which works out as a seat angle of 71 and head angle of 68, I only had measurement to the nearest degree so I'm happy to call that 68.4 and say the chart has them the wrong way around.
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby antipodean » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:11 pm

I ordered this today, looks like a bargain to me. :D

http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/KHB ... h-mtb-2012

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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby trailgumby » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:20 pm

You're right, that's outstanding. Well done :D
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby Mapomatic » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:32 pm

I suffer from a severe case of Co-ordination Deficiency Syndrome, commonly known as CODS, and I was always the worst rider eg slowest and the most stacks when I used to ride my XR250 with my mates.


Why not try a dually with 120mm + of travel? They are a lot more forgiving than hardtails,, let you choose bad lines and generally ride pretty sloppily and still not through you off. Plenty of bikes fitting this bill 2nd hand on rotorburn.
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby DaveOZ » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:47 pm

antipodean wrote:I ordered this today, looks like a bargain to me. :D

http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/KHB ... h-mtb-2012


Wow that is cheap. Tempted.
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby silentbutdeadly » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:59 am

DaveOZ wrote:
antipodean wrote:I ordered this today, looks like a bargain to me. :D

http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/KHB ... h-mtb-2012


Wow that is cheap. Tempted.


Could do a lot worse. That's a heck of a lot of gear and a free frame at that price. However, I'd be looking at bigger chainrings. 38/24 is too small for the flatness that I am surrounded with...
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby sblack » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:36 pm

DaveOZ wrote:
antipodean wrote:I ordered this today, looks like a bargain to me. :D

http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/KHB ... h-mtb-2012


Wow that is cheap. Tempted.

At that price is probably cheaper than converting the Lynskey
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby bosvit » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:51 pm

silentbutdeadly wrote:
DaveOZ wrote:
antipodean wrote:I ordered this today, looks like a bargain to me. :D

http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/KHB ... h-mtb-2012


Wow that is cheap. Tempted.


Could do a lot worse. That's a heck of a lot of gear and a free frame at that price. However, I'd be looking at bigger chainrings. 38/24 is too small for the flatness that I am surrounded with...

+1

That's the first thing I noticed when I looked at it.

It's going to do a lot of road work so 38/11 is just not a tall enough gear.

Same with a dually, really I am only going to see decent tracks/trails maybe once or twice a year if I am lucky the rest of the time it's pretty tame stuff over here.

After closer inspection of specs I am very much leaning towards the 291 even though it has pretty low spoke count wheels. If they start getting out of shape at all I will get a second set (which is my preference anyway) and keep the Eastons for slicks that I will use on all the dirt roads over here.

Thanks for all the replies peoples :wink:
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby mitzikatzi » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:58 am

bosvit wrote:...snip...It's going to do a lot of road work so 38/11 is just not a tall enough gear....snip...:


:roll: :roll:

38/11, 29 inch wheels, 100 rpm Pedalling cadence

gives 48 kmh or close enough tp 30 mph

bicycle-gear-inch-calculator

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trailgumby wrote:29ers are awesome.
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby DaveOZ » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:26 am

sblack wrote:At that price is probably cheaper than converting the Lynskey


Too late, the parts are already at the bike shop. I'm keen to see how it works out.
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby ndc » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:09 am

antipodean wrote:I ordered this today, looks like a bargain to me. :D

http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/KHB ... h-mtb-2012



I currently ride a 54 road frame http://www.somafab.com/archives/product/es

What size KHS (S, M, L) do you guys reckon would suit me? http://www.khsbicycles.com/Images/Geometry/12-geo-yuma-tucson.jpg
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby antipodean » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:16 am

I ordered the M and I am 5'8".
Had to email KHS for the sizing of the small which is as follows,

Seat tube 15”

Head angle 71

Seat angle 75

Top tube 22.8”

Stand over 29.7”

Head tube 3.9”

This is the link to the geometry of the 2012 Yuma slightly different to your link.

http://www.khsbicycles.com/Images/Geome ... tucson.jpg
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby silentbutdeadly » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:02 am

mitzikatzi wrote:
bosvit wrote:...snip...It's going to do a lot of road work so 38/11 is just not a tall enough gear....snip...:


:roll: :roll:

38/11, 29 inch wheels, 100 rpm Pedalling cadence

gives 48 kmh or close enough tp 30 mph

bicycle-gear-inch-calculator

Rabbit, a singlespeed and fixed-gear cycling calculator.



You may roll your eyes but a calculator is one thing and the perception of the real world experience is yet another. The chance of hitting 45 whilst doing 100 rpm on a 29x2.1 tyre is minimal and the prospect of staying there for any length of time is unlikely unless you are a cycling superhero. 38/24 is probably an ideal 2x10 setup for a 29er on the tracks and trails of the Great Divide but if it is going to be used as a multipurpose job or in the flat country....not my cup of Bonox.
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Re: New 29er MTB which one?

Postby antipodean » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:13 am

After several emails to KHS I finally have the geometry for the 2012 Yuma taken from their catalog.

http://www.khsbicycles.com/PDF/2012_khs ... atalog.pdf

Page 63
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