briztoon wrote:Interesting that you're after quality eg. Ultegra group set, and ask for the SRAM equivalent, but not Campagnolos.
I briefly rode a Wilier with either Veloce or Centaur back in 2007 and thought the shifters were absolute garbage. Not only from an ergonomic viewpoint, but also from the sloppyness in the mechanism and the fragility of the shifter. Now, perhaps higher-end Campagnolo is superior (I've heard top-end Campagnolo is superior to the lower-range equipment)...but is it worth the extra $$$?
Ultegra sells for just under $1000 these days. Centaur is at a similar price, Athena is a bit more, Chorus is a lot more. Is it 'better'? I had a riding friend in Australia who switched to Campag (high-end) and used to rave about it, until he moved to Europe. After riding during a few European winters, he moved back to Dura-Ace, because he said that 'Shimano just works'.
I understand that Campagnolo may be better from the point that it is fully servicable and can be rebuilt relatively easy, but my Shimano groupset is nudging 17 years old and it still working well. The shifters still work, the rear derailleur is about the give up the ghost (the pivot hinges are worn and there is a lot of play in the mechanism) but overall I've been very happy with the longevity of it.
Especially as the bike was left outside in an undercover bike shelter at my old work during an English winter. Whilst the bike frame developed a bit of rust (and the chain disintegrated) the components themselves were no worse for wear.
ausrandom wrote:Amost all the bikes people talk about on BNA are a luxury. An objective definition of luxury is simple but objective evaluations of luxury goods are hard to find

One thing's for sure: we engineers are a hard sell!
As alluded to in the initial post, previous encounters with 'luxury' items has me running to the hills. 'Luxury' IMO is just a euphemism for 'standard stuff with a huge mark-up to create artificial scarcity to promote perceptions of exclusivity amongst consumers'.
Rockford wrote:Why not go with a bespoke design? Baum, Lynskey et al There was a thread not long ago asking about hand made bikes in Oz with quite a few recommendations. That way you can spec the tubing, style, geometry of the bike.
Tempting but at this stage of my life (wife, mortgage, two young kids) blowing 5+ on a bike is a bit of an extravagance. Carbon still gives the best 'bang for your buck'.
Although its interesting to put things back in a historical perspective. My custom steel bike in 1994 cost $2,200. That's pretty much equivalent to a 5K-ish custom titanium bike today. When you look at some of the specials on now (e.g. Oppy C6 with Ultegra for 2K, 2011 Wilier Izoard XP for just a little bit more) you can see how much more affordable high-performance bikes have become. Back in 1994 carbon bikes cost $5,000.
stevecassidy wrote:In touring the local shops, it's somewhat hard to find anything but the major brands, Giant, Trek are everywhere and most shops seem to recommend them. They'll often have another brand which they might talk about as an alternative but it's hard to get a really balanced opinion.
In the case of Wilier (which is now heavily discounted) I get the feeling the bike shops don't actually want to sell it to me. They'd rather put me on another brand which will give them a bigger margin.
simonsausage wrote:My advice, for what its worth, is to forget about the Ultegra. Shifters and derailleurs won't make you go any faster.
105 or even, dare I say it, Tiagra work very well and are equally reliable. (same prob goes for the Campag or Sram equivallent).
Buy a bike with a good frame, mid range gropuset and upgrade the wheels. Bike companies tend to put pretty average wheels on most new bikes
and upgrading wheels will actually make a real difference to speed, handling, road feel etc.
105 or Tiagra may shift as well straight out of the box, but what about in 2-5-10 years time? I agree shifters and derailleurs don't make you go faster, but they affect the bike's reliability and ease of use. I had the choice when I bought my current bike to buy a flashier aluminium frame with 105, or a steel frame with Ultegra. I swapped 'speed' for reliability and longevity.
Re : cheap DIY carbon frames from China. Had never heard of this option (or even considered it) until I read these forums. Will consider it. My dad when he retired spent about $7,000 on a Litespeed titanium touring frame and he built the bike himself using Deore XT parts.