Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby w00dsy » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:52 pm

i don't mind if people go fast, as long as they don't mind if i drop back when they do. I'm all for the occasional sprint, but i struggled to keep up today early on. At the 20km mark we were averaging 29.9kph according to my Garmin, i normally average about 25-26 depending on the wind. I tend to cruise along at about 30kph, give or take a 1-2km either way. Early on i was dropping off the back and i was doing 35. I knew i couldn't maintain that speed in the heat for 60km. I haven't ridden with you lot for a few months and i thought you'd all just become much fitter and faster, until Hooli-dooli explained that it's not normally this quick and he had his Viking moment. I was happy for you all to continue on at your pace and i was prepared to just do a lap of Willy and head back on my own. I haven't done a lot of riding the last few months so i don't want to hold anyone up. I appreciate you guys slowing down a bit for me, i had a ball though. I haven't ridden with anyone for months so it was fun to have a chat while riding, it took my mind of my gurgling stomach :D

I was entertained by Migs and his rattling gears and chain, it made me feel like i was in a bondage dungeon. :lol:
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by BNA » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:09 pm

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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby speedhump » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:09 pm

w00dsy wrote:I haven't ridden with anyone for months so it was fun to have a chat while riding, it took my mind of my gurgling stomach :D

I was entertained by Migs and his rattling gears and chain, it made me feel like i was in a bondage dungeon. :lol:


Mmmm is that what a bondage dungeon sounds like? Do you know this from past experience? :twisted:

Had a great time with a buch of good 'passionate' riders! Thanks
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby norbs » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:34 am

letmeride wrote:Didn't take long to show your true colors ; it is a social ride, you cannot tell people how fast they can go. If you keep doing that your going to be a lonely rider. Where's the fun if someone is telling a cyclist how to ride. If you can't handle the critiscim get off and walk. Just saying. :roll:



I always thought a social ride was one were people ride together and not leave others behind. It is very easy for the faster guys to race off and have the slower people bust their butts trying to keep up. Easy for the fast guys that is. Sure takes the fun out of it for the slower people. If w00dsy was dropping off the back and he was doing 35kph, that is ridiculously fast for a so called social ride. That is the speed of a club ride.

Mr Hooligan had every right to ask people to slow down. Sounds like his method may have been slightly heavy handed, but I wasn't there, so I can only go off what has been said. He did apologise.

Maybe this group isn't for you letmeride. You might be better off riding with a club that pushes things along a bit. From everything I have read about this group, it sounds like it is more for social riders than racers.
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby wallaby » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:18 pm

[quote "letmeride"] I have ridden with Johan before and he is not a nice person to ride with as he is one of those that like to ride off on slower people when he chooses. Before you go insinuating again i ask that you please no your facts.[/quote]

Mmmmmm really?????? :shock: Not in my experience! And my experience is first hand. I would say the exact opposite myself. I had a particularly bad day on my only ride with this group and he was the only one with me at the end of the ride - and I ended up learning a heap of stuff from that ride which has enabled me to do my own solo rides since then with a helluva lot more confidence and improve my riding heaps.

If someone is getting dropped at 35km/h, then that is unbelievably fast for a group that says they will welcome anyone and everyone. Unfortunately some of us newbies need the experience of a group ride in order to work out the best way to ride on roads and to learn training and riding pointers off others (as I know no one else who has ever ridden!), without feeling completely conscious of being slow pokes. I think us slower riders know we are slow, we don't need to be made to feel any worse than we already do, with holding people up. Just my two cents worth.

I hope the group can sort this out as I am hoping to be heading out again once I get a free Saturday morning!!!

EDIT: oops, sorry Norbs! New to this whole forum thingy!! First time I ever quoted someone and I get it wrong! :lol:
Last edited by wallaby on Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby norbs » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:25 pm

wallaby wrote:
norbs wrote: I have ridden with Johan before and he is not a nice person to ride with as he is one of those that like to ride off on slower people when he chooses. Before you go insinuating again i ask that you please no your facts.


Mmmmmm really?????? :shock: Not in my experience! And my experience is first hand. I would say the exact opposite myself. I had a particularly bad day on my only ride with this group and he was the only one with me at the end of the ride - and I ended up learning a heap of stuff from that ride which has enabled me to do my own solo rides since then with a helluva lot more confidence and improve my riding heaps.

If someone is getting dropped at 35km/h, then that is unbelievably fast for a group that says they will welcome anyone and everyone. Unfortunately some of us newbies need the experience of a group ride in order to work out the best way to ride on roads and to learn training and riding pointers off others (as I know no one else who has ever ridden!), without feeling completely conscious of being slow pokes. I think us slower riders know we are slow, we don't need to be made to feel any worse than we already do, with holding people up. Just my two cents worth.

I hope the group can sort this out as I am hoping to be heading out again once I get a free Saturday morning!!!



Quoted the wrong person. :)
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby w00dsy » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:27 pm

letmeride wrote: I like you are going by what is written. And FYI i don't ride the social rides, i ride with my children. I have ridden with Johan before and he is not a nice person to ride with as he is one of those that like to ride off on slower people when he chooses. Before you go insinuating again i ask that you please no your facts.




let me correct a couple of your comments. Norbs is a very good friend of mine. I spoke to him yesterday after the ride, he is a keen cyclist who likes to help encourage me and others like me who aren't as good as him, so he often rings me and asks how my rides are going, he subtley helps push me a long a bit to keep me out there getting fitter. I gave him a bit of a run down about our ride, which was something along the lines of 'was a good ride despite the heat, pretty quick to begin with, i had trouble keeping up, Johan dropped back to ride with me, said he was hoping it'd be a bit slower and that he doesn't want slower riders to feel like they should get quicker before they come and ride with the group, Johan had a few words with some of the quicker guys, then we carried on and had a coffee and milkshake, nice casual ride home, sweated my arse off and now my guts hurt from mixing too many different drinks'. I also asked how his big ride went. So Norbs had a rough idea that it was an interesting ride, which is probably why he chose to have a look in this thread.

As for Johan, i don't know what you encountered but he is a very considerate guy. I have a lot of time for him even though i've only met him twice now. We had a chat on the ride back and he was saying he wants the group to grow and make it a fun morning out for everyone, with a few sprints here and there for the guys keen on getting the heart rate up. And also attract new people from the area who may be getting into riding. He also paid for our morning tea before any of us had a chance, maybe he felt a bit guilty for his brief blow up but he has more than made up for a very small rant in my eyes. I've only ridden with him twice and he is yet to ride off on me like he did for you. Maybe he kills kittens in his spare time, but he's one of the friendliest blokes i've ridden with, in fact all the guys on the Pt Cook rides are really nice guys. One thing is for sure, yesterday was a lot of fun and now i'm keen for another ride with them next week.
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby w00dsy » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:34 pm

wallaby wrote:I hope the group can sort this out as I am hoping to be heading out again once I get a free Saturday morning!!!




for me it's a combination of a casual ride and getting out there and sweating a bit, so i'll happily ride with you if you're down the back with me. I kinda like having a chat while i ride because it makes it more interesting and the km's seem to tick over quicker.

Just a suggestion, should we set 2 slightly different routes for the first half, a bit like what the Prof did yesterday on his own, maybe adding in an extra km or two and the quick guys can zip off on that ride, while us slightly slower guys do another route which gets us to the coffee shop at about the same time? That way it caters for who ever turns up. It saves the quicker guys from getting frustrated having to go slow, and stops us unfit guys from poppping our hearts out of our chests trying to keep up :D Then like yesterday we can all do the 2nd half together and have a good old chin wag on the way back.
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby wallaby » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:49 pm

Yeah, I'm definately down the back there, so I'll happily have a chat with you too!! I like to ride, to ride and enjoy the freedom and space, so having chats with other riders is really important for me as I am seriously new to the sport (only 4 months total of riding for my entire life! :D ) and I have no other people to get ideas off.

There is another group from Port Melbourne that I am considering riding with, as they adopt a similar approach to that which Woodsy suggested - they set speeds for individual groups within the big group (ie 25km/28km/30km and 30+km/h) and they all ride the same route, meet up at halfway and again at the end for coffees/chats. That may be the way the group needs to go. That way I wouldn't feel bad about keeping up the faster riders and would be comfortable about riding at my own designated pace.
Sounds like a good idea Woodsy!!
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby speedhump » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:26 pm

I would like to throw my two cents worth. This is the second time I have rode with this group and have enjoyed both occasions. Yesterday I raced off as well but couldnt keep the pace with two breakaways, must have been going in excess of 40km at one point. It has been previously said that maybe we could have a sprint session from Koroit Creek Rd and meet at the lights then stay with the group, sometimes its more of a challenge for the fastest to stay with the slowest. For the group to thrive we need to look after the slower newbies so they dont become discouraged but I am also in favor of the 'rush of blood' sprint session. I think that all parties need to take a big deep breath and move on. The two combatants seem like good genuine blokes that enjoy there riding and are committed to the group. I know Hooly better and have always found him a person who says how it is and I appreciate that. I have ridden the You Yangs and Lara with him and have thoroughly enjoyed it.
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby migz05 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:49 pm

heres my take on the situation..

I can honestly admit that i'm one of the more active members of this group and also one of the slower riders. though i do see this as a social ride, i don't want to detract from riders who like to get their heart rate up every so often. i'm not sure how other social rides work because i've never been on any other social rides before. i have been a victim of being dropped by some of the quicker guys :oops: ! Who am i to tell people how they're to ride? in fact, the only thing its really done for me is help me become a better rider :D . and if anything, it makes me want to come more often because if i miss a week or two then i probably know i'll have some catching up to do!

At the end of it all, i've got nothing but good things to say about this group of riders. they're great to be with especially to have a laugh with around the table at the cafe.

i'm all for welcoming people new to this group and would also say that generally we do go at an average cruising speed of around 30kph. On the rare occasion that some of the fitter guys want to push the pace a little, then i'm all for it. i'll always know that i'll regroup with them a little later on and have a good laugh around the table at the cafe!

So lets keep this growing!!
anyone and everyone is welcome!
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby migz05 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:17 pm

on that note.. ride for this Saturday anyone?
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby w00dsy » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:15 pm

migz05 wrote:on that note.. ride for this Saturday anyone?



i'll be there unless i'm working.
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby damhooligan » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:31 pm

w00dsy wrote:
migz05 wrote:on that note.. ride for this Saturday anyone?



i'll be there unless i'm working.



If i promise I wil behave, can I come ?? :D
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby damhooligan » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:52 am

migz05 wrote:heres my take on the situation..

I can honestly admit that i'm one of the more active members of this group and also one of the slower riders. though i do see this as a social ride, i don't want to detract from riders who like to get their heart rate up every so often. i'm not sure how other social rides work because i've never been on any other social rides before. i have been a victim of being dropped by some of the quicker guys :oops: ! Who am i to tell people how they're to ride? in fact, the only thing its really done for me is help me become a better rider :D . and if anything, it makes me want to come more often because if i miss a week or two then i probably know i'll have some catching up to do!

At the end of it all, i've got nothing but good things to say about this group of riders. they're great to be with especially to have a laugh with around the table at the cafe.

i'm all for welcoming people new to this group and would also say that generally we do go at an average cruising speed of around 30kph. On the rare occasion that some of the fitter guys want to push the pace a little, then i'm all for it. i'll always know that i'll regroup with them a little later on and have a good laugh around the table at the cafe!

So lets keep this growing!!
anyone and everyone is welcome!



In every group you have faster and slower riders, thats normal..
the challenge is to find a 'neutral zone', where the faster ones slow down a bit, and that is their challenge,
and the slower ones push themselfs a bit.. :wink:

Every group ride wil find their own rhythm, but we do have a variety of riders, that do not consistently ride every week, so we have different riders every week.
and we end up with having a differnt ride evrey week, and it is hard to create stucture within this.
So we should find a common ground/rule.

I reckon the basic one should be the route.
As in the past that also has been avalibile to changes, the route has been changed, as wel as to location of the coffe stop and starting times, and also their lenght...

If we all know the route, then changes can be made by a seperate group, ie a longer version for the faster ones.
We have been running this ride mostly as 'see what happens' , but I reckon, we are now at this stage where we know this has become a regular ride.
And if we want to keep it running smootly , we should organise it a bit better.. :wink:

It is a suggestion, and the group decides, so what most members of the group wants, thats what wil go.
i suggest ;
starting time of 8 am.
Route; http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/co ... -cook-ride
Also, if anybody knows the name of the coffee shop, we can also mention this as our half way point.
An average riding speed of 30km/h (wich results in an overal av of 25km/h), this offcourse wil depend on weather conditions.
And the sprint session of korroit creek road remains, anybody can release their energy there, and re-group at the end.

The above are good basic structures, wich are good, if we can agree on these beforhand, and do not change them.
We can easily create some more structure.

Suggestions and ideas are always welcome. 8)
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby whad » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:46 am

norbs wrote:I have ridden with Johan before and he is not a nice person to ride with as he is one of those that like to ride off on slower people when he chooses. Before you go insinuating again i ask that you please no your facts.



I have only done this ride a couple of times in its early days but have ridden with Hooly for many years now. The above statment is just plain wrong. Hooly is a great person to ride with individually or in a bunch. He is aware of what is happening within the bunch especially with newer riders. This is something he taught me when I rode off on him a few times when we started riding together. He can be outspoken (he will admit that) but then he is dutch :wink:
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby damhooligan » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:12 am

whad wrote:
norbs wrote:I have ridden with Johan before and he is not a nice person to ride with as he is one of those that like to ride off on slower people when he chooses. Before you go insinuating again i ask that you please no your facts.



I have only done this ride a couple of times in its early days but have ridden with Hooly for many years now. The above statment is just plain wrong. Hooly is a great person to ride with individually or in a bunch. He is aware of what is happening within the bunch especially with newer riders. This is something he taught me when I rode off on him a few times when we started riding together. He can be outspoken (he will admit that) but then he is dutch :wink:


The following quote was not written by norbs.
I have send you a pm, wich explains it all. :wink:

Yes, I am dutch, this is my excuse for eveything.. :mrgreen:
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby whad » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:43 am

damhooligan wrote:
whad wrote:
norbs wrote:I have ridden with Johan before and he is not a nice person to ride with as he is one of those that like to ride off on slower people when he chooses. Before you go insinuating again i ask that you please no your facts.



I have only done this ride a couple of times in its early days but have ridden with Hooly for many years now. The above statment is just plain wrong. Hooly is a great person to ride with individually or in a bunch. He is aware of what is happening within the bunch especially with newer riders. This is something he taught me when I rode off on him a few times when we started riding together. He can be outspoken (he will admit that) but then he is dutch :wink:


The following quote was not written by norbs.
I have send you a pm, wich explains it all. :wink:

Yes, I am dutch, this is my excuse for eveything.. :mrgreen:



Ok then. Apologies to Norbs. :oops:

But I was just defending a good mate with the infomation at hand. 8)
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby theprofessor » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:18 am

Hi everyone

I have read all of the posts since last Saturday. Firstly, I'd like to apologise for even being involved in what went on. I'd like to put some facts about last Saturdays ride and some of my personal opinions out there which is of course open to discussion.

Facts:

1) Last Saturday we had a significant tail wind on the way up to Williamstown which would have undoubtedly affected our average speed.
2) Kororouit Creek road (or however you spell it) has been a sprint section every time I have ridden with this group.
3) When riding it is difficult to know who is behind you and how far away they are particularly when sprinting.
4) Last Saturday I was at the front a fair bit but along many of the sections I looked behind me, saw some people were a little bit behind and adjusted my speed on several occassions to allow them to catch up.
5) I was the person to inform Yohan that we had dropped some people at one point and hence the front of the group slowed down to allow them to catch up.
6) While sprinting along Kororuit Creek road I actually was not at the front for most of this section. The guy who has only ridden with us twice to my knowledge (I can't remember his name) was at the front and I tried my best to sit in his slip stream so that I could keep up with him.
7) I was the one that stopped at the end of Kororuit Creek road (the guy in front of me continued on over the railway line) and allowed everyone to catch up. As I stopped I noticed that Cisco (I think it was him) was literally right behind me and stopped when I did. It took no more than 2 minutes for everyone to catch up.
8) Upon Yohans arrival he took it upon himself to open up with profanities, swearing, cursing and shouting directed at me.

My opinions:

1) I'm not entirely sure why this was directed at me when clearly I was the second rider in the group at that point with Cisco right behind me and I was also the one that initiated the stop to allow others to catch up following the usual sprint. Why I was accused of not riding with the group when I had a rider right in front and another right behind me I cannot understand.
2) I was shocked that someone would simply wonder up from the back and speak to me in such a manner. I tried my best to stay calm and not add to the situation by mirroring Yohans reactions.
3) I don't believe it is acceptable for anyone to treat any other member of the group in this manner.
4) I don't like people dictating what others should do. I don't like it done to me. I don't like seeing being done to others. If you don't like it, let's all have a civilised chat about it and come to a solution (if possible). It seems to me that last Saturday the usual riders up front such as Colin, Vince, Don were not around. Yohan decided to change the route (which I am fine with) but to then start dictating what speed we all ride at is ridiculous. Since when did Yohan become King and commander?
5) Being dutch is not an excuse for behaving like a hooligan. Maybe there is something in the name after all.
6) I very much like every single person in this group (with one exception).
7) I would also like to see the group grow, to support those that are not as strong but also to encourage improvement in everyone.
8) I would like to see a ride where those that want a good work out feel they are free to do so while not completely leaving others behind. Ultimatley, we can all meet at the coffee shop/halfway point at the very least - or we can do one main sprint and then wait or slow down for others as people see fit - or both.

Comments and suggestions:

1) We could split into smaller groups with different speeds within the 1 main group.
2) We could split into different groups all together.
3) It may be worth establishing some basic ground rules so everyone knows the score and we don't have blow ups like last Saturday.
4) Should we stick with the idea that everyone is welcome? Is it appropriate? To me we are all capable of doing 60kms at a reasonable pace. If I speak to other people who don't ride regularly they believe 60kms is ridiculously long. I know some people who can't do more than 20kms without feeling unable to walk the next day. Maybe it would be better to advertise ourselves as mid level riders and suggest that beginners while welcome could find it difficult to keep up.
5) I can't speak for anyone else, but I would like to see myself improve which I don't think is going to happen if we all go for a Sunday stroll on a Saturday morning.
6) Can we have some discussion about how members of the group treat each other and what is not acceptable behaviour and what the consequences are? Personally I don't want to ride with people that behave in a manner similar to what happened last Saturday.
7) Yohan did not pay for my drink - nor would I want him to. The question is, why would someone buy a round of drinks after throwing a tantie? Is it because they felt bad about what they did? Is it to try and win favour with others? Who knows?

Once again, I'm sorry to everyone that had to witness last Saturdays events. If I have done something to upset or offend you, please feel free to approach me in a pleasant manner and I'd be happy to discuss things openly.

Will be up for a ride this Saturday and speak to you all then. Will keep an eye on the forum too this week to see what everyone else is thinking.

All the best. Steve
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby damhooligan » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:16 pm

theprofessor wrote:Yohan decided to change the route (which I am fine with) but to then start dictating what speed we all ride at is ridiculous. Since when did Yohan become King and commander?


That was a long post , but I wil start with the following !

Firstly , my name is spelled with a J, if you wanna badmouth me and my behaviour, at least spell my name right.
You managed to mention multiple times how I behaved and what I have done wrong, im sure that once is enough.
Also, I agree that my behaviour was wrong and that is also why I apologised here on the forum, as it affected everyone.

secondly, the weather conditions are not relevant, tail wind , or head wind, regardless of that I am sure we can manage to stay together.

just to be clear, I have no problems now, nor have I ever had problems with the sprint section at kororoit creek road.
My concerns I raised have absolutely nothing at all to do with kororoit creek road.
In fact, I actualy like the sprint section myself.

But It all started way before that, at the esplenade/beach street, where the gap was already becoming big.
When the guys at the front turned from civic parade onto millers rd, there was a clear vieuw to see how far back the rest was,
I also noticed that some at the fornt looked, saw the gap, and continued riding away along millers road, the gap there was way to big and could have been avoided by regrouping.
All of this happened before kororoit creek road.

And steve, if you wonder why i 'picked' on you, I can explain it to you 8)
My initial approach was a nice and kind approach, with a simple qusetion to please keep the group together, and the group seemed fine with that question, with one exeption, you.
You managed to ignore that request by simply telling me, I do as I please, i wil keep riding the way I like ...
And that went down the wrong hole, as this GROUP ride, its not there to amuse YOU.
Its a group ride, and my question was simply just that , to keep the group together.
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby damhooligan » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:27 pm

theprofessor wrote:Comments and suggestions:

4) Should we stick with the idea that everyone is welcome? Is it appropriate? To me we are all capable of doing 60kms at a reasonable pace. If I speak to other people who don't ride regularly they believe 60kms is ridiculously long. I know some people who can't do more than 20kms without feeling unable to walk the next day. Maybe it would be better to advertise ourselves as mid level riders and suggest that beginners while welcome could find it difficult to keep up.
5) I can't speak for anyone else, but I would like to see myself improve which I don't think is going to happen if we all go for a Sunday stroll on a Saturday morning.
6) Can we have some discussion about how members of the group treat each other and what is not acceptable behaviour and what the consequences are? Personally I don't want to ride with people that behave in a manner similar to what happened last Saturday.
7) Yohan did not pay for my drink - nor would I want him to. The question is, why would someone buy a round of drinks after throwing a tantie? Is it because they felt bad about what they did? Is it to try and win favour with others? Who knows?


4) YES !!!
Simply because there is already a organised group ride leaving from hoppers crossing, that goes at a reasonable pace.
What we dont have in this region is a group ride that is open to all new riders, so they can learn/experience group rides !

5) Then mayby this group, as you would describe as mid level is not suited for you ??
i can give you the details of the other group, as I am very sure you would fit in fine, and i am very sure they wil creat oppurtunitys for you to improve.

6) We are human and make mistakes.

7) I picked up the bill for different reasons, the fact that you already payed for yours was not my choice,thats because you choose not to stay with the group,
and because you decided to take a different route.
You knew where we would turn as I explained this before we started, and because of this you arrived earlier at the coffee stop.
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby theprofessor » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:17 pm

damhooligan wrote:
theprofessor wrote:Comments and suggestions:

4) Should we stick with the idea that everyone is welcome? Is it appropriate? To me we are all capable of doing 60kms at a reasonable pace. If I speak to other people who don't ride regularly they believe 60kms is ridiculously long. I know some people who can't do more than 20kms without feeling unable to walk the next day. Maybe it would be better to advertise ourselves as mid level riders and suggest that beginners while welcome could find it difficult to keep up.
5) I can't speak for anyone else, but I would like to see myself improve which I don't think is going to happen if we all go for a Sunday stroll on a Saturday morning.
6) Can we have some discussion about how members of the group treat each other and what is not acceptable behaviour and what the consequences are? Personally I don't want to ride with people that behave in a manner similar to what happened last Saturday.
7) Yohan did not pay for my drink - nor would I want him to. The question is, why would someone buy a round of drinks after throwing a tantie? Is it because they felt bad about what they did? Is it to try and win favour with others? Who knows?


4) YES !!!
Simply because there is already a organised group ride leaving from hoppers crossing, that goes at a reasonable pace.
What we dont have in this region is a group ride that is open to all new riders, so they can learn/experience group rides !

5) Then mayby this group, as you would describe as mid level is not suited for you ??
i can give you the details of the other group, as I am very sure you would fit in fine, and i am very sure they wil creat oppurtunitys for you to improve.

6) We are human and make mistakes.

7) I picked up the bill for different reasons, the fact that you already payed for yours was not my choice,thats because you choose not to stay with the group,
and because you decided to take a different route.
You knew where we would turn as I explained this before we started, and because of this you arrived earlier at the coffee stop.


Has anyone else got any point of view in response to Johan's (with a J - I apologise profusely btw) comments? I would class all of us as mid tier riders. None of us are going to break any ironman records and all of us are perfectly capable of doing 60km rides. In my view that makes us mid level and we should let others that are interested in joining know what to expect so that they are not too surprised when they turn up on their first day. Other members of the group, what do you think? Johan, would you not describe us as mid level? If not, how would you describe our group to potential new members?

We do all indeed make mistakes. I'm happy to overlook minor indiscretions but ranting, raving and swearing is in my opinion outright rude. You've apologised to the group but perhaps you need to think about apologising to the person you spoke to in that manner. When you talk to people in the manner that you frequently do it tends to get peoples backs up. Coming back to your earlier comment about politely mentioning that we should stay as a group. While your words may have been as such, your tone got my back up straight away and instead came across as an order instead of a friendly request. Perhaps this is why I decided to ride ahead of you and remove myself from being anywhere near you. I don't think this is an isolated incident either from comments I've heard around the group.

So why did you decide to pay for everyone's drink? I really don't mind either way. I'm just interested as I guess I see it as a fairly unusual thing to do considering there were about 8 or so people there, particularly for a guy who doesn't pay more than $1/km for organised rides.

Regardless of, I am a little over it now. I'd be keen to see other peoples views on speed and some of the other comments and suggestions up there. All the best everyone and see you Saturday.
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby damhooligan » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:57 pm

theprofessor wrote: I don't think this is an isolated incident either from comments I've heard around the group.


Oh really :shock:

This is new to me..
Feel free to explain that one a bit better to me. :wink:

theprofessor wrote: Johan, would you not describe us as mid level? If not, how would you describe our group to potential new members?


Oh, but yes, this group is defenatly mid level, but i was suprised that you call it that way.

Based on your reaction of saturday and all your previous posts, it comes acros as you treat this group as a more serious riding group..
A group where you 'have' to be of a specific level , to be 'allowed' to enter, as in; if you cant keep up, dont bother joining.
that is not something I consider mid-level..
If you do wish to ride a serious riding group, wich is perfectly fine, may I remind you again that there already is a group for the more serious and experienced riders on a saturday.

I do consider this a mid level group, one where new riders can easily join in, so they can learn to ride in groups.
and they can gain that experience, and increase their level of fitness.
But that is just my opnion.
The dutch have one word to describe the aussie MHL, this word is ;
SCHIJNVEILIGHEID !!
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby Shmando » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:31 pm

I am the guy theprofessor referred to as having raced off down Kororoit Creek Rd as it is group ride or on my own my sprint/PB "zone". It just so happens that i set my best time/ave speed on Sat, so pretty happy. But as he pointed out I stopped across the crossing, waited and rode with the group to Franics St where I went my own way (this was pre-planned and not related to the issues being raised herein).

Over the years I've ridden with a number of groups of differing abilities and the issues that seem to be coming up here are all too common. The only way to overcome them is to clearly communicate the groups purpose i.e. we welcome all riders of all abilities or make it more specific as in novice to intermediate riders, average speed of 30km/h, sprints with numerous regroup points. As individuals abilities improve the purpose can be redefined or if numbers are sufficient split into a fast and slow groups. The key reason for joining a group ride is the personal contact and mid ride coffee!

This is a group ride that is in its infancy (relatively speaking) so numbers and abilities are slowly improving, however any prospective riders would more than likely take one look at the dirty laundry being aired on this forum and choose to go elsewhere. I'm not criticizing anyone with this comment, but keep this fact in mind when discussing the ride as we are all ambassadors for it.

Look forward to seeing you all on the road again soon.

Chris aka Shmando
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby damhooligan » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:43 pm

Shmando wrote:The only way to overcome them is to clearly communicate the groups purpose i.e. we welcome all riders of all abilities or make it more specific as in novice to intermediate riders, average speed of 30km/h, sprints with numerous regroup points. As individuals abilities improve the purpose can be redefined or if numbers are sufficient split into a fast and slow groups. The key reason for joining a group ride is the personal contact and mid ride coffee!


I agree, and that is exactly what I am trying to establish here..

p.s., I like the sound of 'novice to intermediate riders' :D
The dutch have one word to describe the aussie MHL, this word is ;
SCHIJNVEILIGHEID !!
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Re: Point Cook (Melb) weekend rides

Postby vman » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:50 pm

what a shame to read through all of this. I just find it strange as the group has been going well for so long and now this? What changed? Just the speed? Laughable when you think about it.

Do we really need to over complicate a ride? really? routes, speeds, times, cafes really? I mean we've never had any issues with this stuff until recently.

Hooligan you seem to be a fierce advocate for beginner rides and yet have never started one in your local area? If this group is not the way you like/want it then perhaps you can start a beginner group ride? Unfortunately what has been created is a split in the group and the very real likely hood that the group will not be same as once was.

I for one hate exorbitant controls especially in my leisure time so I'm going to respectfully disagree with your comments.

Everyone 'thinks' they're right in an argument...............
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