Vander's Tour to Canberra

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Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:02 pm

So starting this by popular demand :P . Its a place to organise my thoughts towards training.
So I will start with a bit of background. I bought my bike on the 13th of August 2011 and within about a week I started a structured training program with a training partner from uni. Now some stats.
VO2max:
22/8/2011 (start) - 3.89L (45ml/kgmin) - - Last stage finished 345W
6/10/11 - 4.7L (57.7ml/kgmin) - Failed (AT) 199BPM - Last stage finished 400W
18/11/11 - 4.4L (56ml/kgmin) - Failed (AT) 191BPM - Last stage finished 400W - Ate poorly beforehand so didnt max.
3/2/12 - 4.9L (63.5ml/kgmin) - Failed (AT) 189BPM - Was about to finish 430W when mouthpiece fell out and I decided I didnt really want to do one again, was slightly disappointed as i was aiming to finish 490W which I would not of been able to do but still an improvement so cant complain too much.

Bobbin Head Climb (which is my yardstick climb):
28/8/11 - 16:14
17/12/11 - 15:03 - 159BPM (not max effort)
28/1/12 : 10:02 -172BPM (at the end of a long day)
4/2/12: 9:52 - 180BPM - 340W

FTP:
1/9/11 - 210W - On trainer on mates bike with powermeter.
11/10/11 - 230W - On Lode bike which feels harder then on a powermeter.
5/2/11 - 275.5 - Estimate baised on peak 20min of calga TT (possibly a little higher then this).

So now a bit about myself. Im a 21 year old uni student studying physiotherapy who after getting told by a knee specialist I probably wont run again (or I will just get knee pain every time I do) to give up trying to go back to playing footy. I had been a fan of watching cycling (Tour de France etc) for a while I decided to take up cycling. Before cycling I was active but I was far from fit I never really trained and most my activity was doing weights, as I kid I did a lot of athletics and played a lot of AFL before being struck with knee problems. When I started my weight was pretty up somewhere around 87kg or so.

Goals:
Currently there is one main goal and that is really to hopefully be competitive at the Tour of Canberra in B grade on 5/5/12 everything is building towards that. For this I feel I will need my FTP to be quite a bit over 300 not sure how much and be able to hold 400ishW up a 10min climb I will also be aiming to be 70kg. My second priority race is the NSW hill climb champs on 21/4/12. Although im more of a sprinter I want to be able to climb and TT well and to really sprint well I need to get my more FTP up so im not wrecked coming into the finish. I will continue to do track and crits to maintain my sprint power and hopefully develop it a bit but that is not the main aim at the moment its climbing and long term power.

Thats all for now I will go a little into my training program at a later date (which is HR based at the moment having just got a powermeter).

Disclaimer: Im an OCD type person and at the moment that is totally focused on cycling.
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by BNA » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:10 pm

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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby toolonglegs » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:10 pm

5/2/11 - 275.5 - Estimate baised on peak 20min of calga TT (possibly a little higher then this).

..after 12 gorges ride previous day :lol: ... perfect pre time trial hit out!.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:29 pm

toolonglegs wrote:
5/2/11 - 275.5 - Estimate baised on peak 20min of calga TT (possibly a little higher then this).

..after 12 gorges ride previous day :lol: ... perfect pre time trial hit out!.


It was just a long warm up :) .
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:13 pm

vander wrote:Disclaimer: Im an OCD type person and at the moment that is totally focused on cycling.


This is a good thing and should help you too stay focused and if you get side tracked, then we will awaken you
to your misadventure :mrgreen:

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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby ft_critical » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:37 pm

Awesome, thanks for setting this up. We better get some before an after photos too: from 87kg at Audax pace to a 70kg TT'n, climb'n, sprint'n machine is going to be quite something.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby AndrewBurns » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:03 pm

Vander, how tall are you? I ask because I'm about 170ish cm and weigh around 63-64kg right now. I'd consider myself quite lean, I'd think that with some weight and other training that if I could get up to more of a 65 to 68kg range I'd be more competitive. It seems like a big drop to go down from 87 to 70 kg unless you were either overweight or very muscly before. Good luck with your goals, I'll be very interested to see all of the data as it pans out.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:19 pm

I am 178cm. As I said I was really into weight lifting so had a lot of upper body muscle to loose as well as some fat. Im done to 77ish now and I would say I could probably get to 68ish and still have pretty big legs.

(AT) ft I will have to see what I can find and might post them up when I get to the goal weight (which im meant to hit just before the hill climb champs).
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby toolonglegs » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:01 pm

B grade Tour de Canberra at 3.5w per kg is going to hurt dude! (even at 4w per kg ftp)...don't you ride C grade club still?... B grade open at an event like that is more like A grade (strong) club plus some.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:11 pm

toolonglegs wrote:B grade Tour de Canberra at 3.5w per kg is going to hurt dude! (even at 4w per kg ftp)...don't you ride C grade club still?... B grade open at an event like that is more like A grade (strong) club plus some.


Last time I raced C grade at club level I was told im not allowed to race it anymore cause I won too easy apparently. I raced a few B grade races including a 2nd place (but it was flat), I have 3 months and Im hoping to be at that level by then, its also a matter of where the state handicapper puts me I believe. I don't think I could do B grade now but as I said I think my FTP will need to be quite a bit over 300W (AT) 70kg to be competitive (im hoping for around 330-340), its going to have to be a bit of a wait and see thing.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby toolonglegs » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:20 pm

There will be plenty of good A grade riders in C grade I can assure you :P ... but the grading system is so crap in Australia you never know what you will get.
B or C it will be good to see how you go.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby philip » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:41 am

vander I think tll is right, if you want to be competitive then go C grade for state races. I was racing club A grade and my first open race last year I was put in C. I might do Canberra tour this year as well, I would go either B or C. I haven't done it before but from what I hear it's a tough race. I know guys who are probably stronger than me who would be in B grade.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby Chuck » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:57 am

Was thinking the same thing as Philip and TLL, B will be full of strong club A graders, so would C most likely. If you achieve your goal Vander and manage to be competitive it would be like going from D to A in less than a year 8)

Will be following with interest, good luck with it.

SOT where did you play your AFL at? Play any senior footy?
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:04 am

I have looked on strava at peoples power output (only the lightning bolt ones) in last years tour of Canberra and with that I can also look at weight range (although its wide) and I can get a decent idea of where I need to be I believe if I hit my power goals I should be somewhat competitive in B grade however hitting those goals and the goal weight is going to be the real hard part. My biggest reason for wanting to do B grade over C grade is the length of the stages. C grades stages are about half the length of B grade and I want to experience racing those longer stages. As I said its out of my hands so we will see where I end up. I will be doing a few opens beforehand to see where I am at in those events.

@Chuck: I played AFL in wollongong but never played senior level I broke my leg at around 15 and I only had 1 year of under 18s after that but it wasnt the same. My knees started to give out at around 13-14 and so by then I was already on the decline. I had played a lot of rep footy up till then, the year I broke my leg was after my first preseason training, I had almost done all of the preseason when it happened although my knees were in very bad shape at the time so I wasnt training properly.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby Strawburger » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:09 am

philip wrote:vander I think tll is right, if you want to be competitive then go C grade for state races. I was racing club A grade and my first open race last year I was put in C. I might do Canberra tour this year as well, I would go either B or C. I haven't done it before but from what I hear it's a tough race. I know guys who are probably stronger than me who would be in B grade.


Just remember A grade in ToC is the teams / pro or otherwise. Many excellent riders without a team or selected would end up in B. C grade is still pretty tough with A graders scattered throughout. Fortunately if you are in the masters 1-4 you dodge most of the excellent riders and only get a handful of club A graders :D

vander wrote:I have looked on strava at peoples power output (only the lightning bolt ones) in last years tour of Canberra and with that I can also look at weight range (although its wide) and I can get a decent idea of where I need to be I believe if I hit my power goals I should be somewhat competitive in B grade however hitting those goals and the goal weight is going to be the real hard part. My biggest reason for wanting to do B grade over C grade is the length of the stages. C grades stages are about half the length of B grade and I want to experience racing those longer stages. As I said its out of my hands so we will see where I end up. I will be doing a few opens beforehand to see where I am at in those events.


FYI I output roughly 4.5-5w/kg in masters 1-4 last year on the longer climbs, that wasn't good enough to hold on to the pack on the sunday stage (It's a looooong stage though) :shock: Aiming for 5.5-6w/kg as you are should be able to keep you in the mix.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:34 am

Thanks Strawburger for the little bit of confidence how did you go last year? What did you end up coming? Most my aim is not to break away but get bunch time and go well in the TT so I don't need to be well above the rest. My training partner is the one I'm hoping can really smash it and I will be working for him, his power output is similar to me but he is 64kg. When we rode with a very strong A grader he only just dropped my mate on one of the climbs (he dropped me going at about 70-75%), so I think in 3months he should be strong enough to break away on the climbs.

BTW I had my weigh in this morning and weighed in at 77.5kg which is 0.5 under my goal for this week. I did hit 77 flat on Tuesday but that's not the official day so doesn't count. A bad week of eating ended up putting it up a bit. Now to get my diet in order (which is just as important as the training) and get back to losing the weight. The goal for next week is 77.0 but I'm hoping to stay atleast half a kilo ahead of my goal.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby Strawburger » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:14 am

Let's just say i achieved my goal :P

My goal was to finish the tour and not come last! I did that and ended up mid-field which exceeded what i went to do. Learning from the experience, i know what i can improve on this year. This event attracts some really good climbers. I couldn't believe the speed these guys climb.

Saturday morning's stage (55km) i did ok, finishing in the peloton +4min. The time trial i finished+ 8min but this was without any piece of TT equipment (my first ever TT) and was expecting this result. The sunday stage was a killer. A breakaway happened on the first climb and stayed out for 115kms. These guys were the strongest riders anyway and was to be expected. We kept them at about 5-7 mins for most of it I remained in the dwindling peloton until the 2nd last climb and popped. I lost a mega 10-13mins on the peloton in the last 20kms when i popped, +20mins on the winner of the stage.

As a gauge, B grade peloton did 37km/hr for the 130km with 1800m ascending (1 significant climb, 6 punchy climbs, 15 annoying rises) for sunday. They also do 2 laps of the saturday stage (110km) at 35km/hr. Looks like most of the time gains will be in the TT if you can hold on to the peloton.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:34 am

Strawburger wrote:Let's just say i achieved my goal :P

My goal was to finish the tour and not come last! I did that and ended up mid-field which exceeded what i went to do. Learning from the experience, i know what i can improve on this year. This event attracts some really good climbers. I couldn't believe the speed these guys climb.

Saturday morning's stage (55km) i did ok, finishing in the peloton +4min. The time trial i finished+ 8min but this was without any piece of TT equipment (my first ever TT) and was expecting this result. The sunday stage was a killer. A breakaway happened on the first climb and stayed out for 115kms. These guys were the strongest riders anyway and was to be expected. We kept them at about 5-7 mins for most of it I remained in the dwindling peloton until the 2nd last climb and popped. I lost a mega 10-13mins on the peloton in the last 20kms when i popped, +20mins on the winner of the stage.

As a gauge, B grade peloton did 37km/hr for the 130km with 1800m ascending (1 significant climb, 6 punchy climbs, 15 annoying rises) for sunday. They also do 2 laps of the saturday stage (110km) at 35km/hr. Looks like most of the time gains will be in the TT if you can hold on to the peloton.


Well done man. What is your aim for this year? I would expect MMAS1,2,3 to be as strong as B grade given some of the riders that would ride it being the highest level anyone that is in Masters can do.

1800m, its flat :) . I did expect it to be a little more then that however it is fast. I have done a few TTs already and I will try and do as many as I can by Canberra. Im also hoping to have most the kit by then, except an actual TT bike (and deep dish wheels instead of a disk etc). I feel the real challenge for the TT however is backing up after the first stage to do it and pump out a good time. All this talk is getting me even more excited for it.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby ft_critical » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:58 am

On a selfish note, I would like to see what you can share of the training plan, macro and micro that you are on. That will give some of your learnings some relevance to us and we can learn too. If that would be okay that is?
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby number21 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:25 pm

Well done dude. Impressive stuff, good luck with it. Jealous of your commitment and focus though!
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:38 pm

Its no groundbreaking training plan I dont think. I do a few sessions that would be considered odd but they are what I feel work the best. I dont have access to the Macro plan as I get it month by month from the coach but I am currently in Base phase this is my second 4 week block of Base. Currently what I am doing is.
Monday: Bowen Mountain 3hrs ride pretty easy out and back T2 sort of range. Then an effort up Bowen mountain. This is a session that me and my partner asked for as I feel this hill makes you strong (after a big weekend, we are going to miss this and I may race Penrith tonight instead)
Tuesday: Aerobic shuffle T2/T3. 7'/3' x 3, 5'/5' x 3, 4'/6' x 3. This session is 2-3hrs usually, not an intense session but you feel the burn in your legs by the end of it.
Wed: 30on/30off x 80min. The 30 on is race pace or the level just under a sprint. I actually havent done this yet had a 40min one last block that really hurt and this is a session that makes you strong but it really hurts.
I also do track training that night, heavy day.
Thurs: 2 hr Recovery ride T1
Fri: 3hrs T2 focus + Track Racing
Sat: 5 hour ride with hills. Solid efforts up each hill. Or maybe a 4 hour ride and a race.
Sun: 2 hr T2 ride.

This makes about a 21hour week. I am yet to hit a full week cause of one thing or another (moving, laziness and a couple of crashes) but im hitting around 15-16ish hours (really not hitting enough for my liking), I was missing mostly the recovery sessions and if I feel not so good I take one of the harder sessions as an easier session. The ramp I have been on has been very intense and in my last block when I hit a few weeks in a row I really started to get fatigued so I am trying to listen to my body so as not to get injured, it is a fine balance.
Last edited by vander on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby philip » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:51 pm

vander wrote:This makes about a 21hour week.

:shock: :shock: that's huge! If you can keep that up week in week out no wonder you're able to improve so fast.

With your overall power level goals, how do you work out what's achievable? How do you know you will be able to increase X amount in Y weeks? (Not doubting that you can do it, just interested in how you work this out.)
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:03 pm

philip wrote:
vander wrote:This makes about a 21hour week.

:shock: :shock: that's huge! If you can keep that up week in week out no wonder you're able to improve so fast.

With your overall power level goals, how do you work out what's achievable? How do you know you will be able to increase X amount in Y weeks? (Not doubting that you can do it, just interested in how you work this out.)


I just set a goal and aim for it. I readjust as I see necessary. My original goal would of only had my FTP at around 300W tour of Canberra time but as of the other day I realised that should be easily achievable so I upped it. I like to aim really high and push myself really hard to get there. Like for my climb of bobbin I set myself the goal of 350W and just pushed hard to make it, I didnt quite get there (340W) so ill adjust and aim for 350W next time. Really there is no way to figure out exactly what I am going to push in the future so its about setting the goals and just shooting for them. We did a lot of goal setting at uni and they found that making goals extremely hard (almost impossible) caused the participants to have the best results so that is what I try and do.

As for keeping up the hours its a little easier now while im on uni holidays the real interesting time will be when uni goes back. Might have to cut back to around 16hours a week, is should be build period also so slightly less time slightly more intense might be the way to go.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby vander » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:38 pm

Decided that going out to Penrith was too far without knowing whether the rain would stay away. So instead I decided to do Alex's favourite 20min intervals. I intended initially to do 3 however after starting I realised I would only be able to handle 2. My legs just could not push and they were hurting bad. Im thinking its just the amount of load that is in them so tomorrow im just going to ride easy for a few hours and Wednesday will be the proper session then Thursday and Friday sessions are pretty easy anyway so I will do them as is and hopefully I will be good by the time the weekend rolls around.
Anyway first set the aim was initially over 300W but readjusted to just try and hit 300W I ended up getting 295W at 176BPM. Second set I wasnt looking at power just trying to get through it, Averaged 265W and surprisingly at 176BPM also. The second set I didnt even feel like I was breathing hard for most of it.
First time doing the session I do like it and am keen to do it one time when my legs arent so smashed to see what I can put out.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:16 pm

:lol: new power meter syndrome!.
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Re: Vander's Tour to Canberra

Postby ft_critical » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:27 pm

That is pretty hard base. Does your coach know you are doing track racing and training on top of what looks like his programme? If so I can't wait to see what you will be doing in Build3/Race Prep :shock: Makes my base look like five weeks of recovery rides :lol:

Given the amount of miles you are doing, small, very small point, I would be guessing you will be needing a new set of tyres, cassette, chain and pads min before the tour. Probably a shop tune too. Esp given the rain and the way the Sydney sand chews your gear :idea: You probably already figured that. But worth having it all in advance I guess.
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