Van Nicholas Pioneer project...

[RonK]

Beware, if you ever plan to ride over The Dazzler Range (between Beauty Point and Port Sorell). You shall in all likelihood be doing some walking

I have driven through that way but don't recall how steep the terrain was. Sounds a bit like the Gog Range - I had to walk a few hundred metres.

[il padrone]

~ 2kms at the crest of the range, varying from 14% to about 20%. On gravel. A real b*#$%*^d!!

This is the beginning of the steep section (that is not a downhill into a dip, we were already climbing)

[RonK]

~ 2kms at the crest of the range, varying from 14% to about 20%. On gravel. A real b*#$%*^d!!

Ah, no gravel the way I went, that's probably why I don't recall the steep terrain.

[Baalzamon]

Well I'm developing a route for my giro now. I'll be starting a new thread with it in when I've completed it.

[il padrone]

~ 2kms at the crest of the range, varying from 14% to about 20%. On gravel. A real b*#$%*^d!!

Ah, no gravel the way I went, that's probably why I don't recall the steep terrain.

Well if you're in Beauty Point along the Tamar Valley and want to get to Devonport, the sealed road route is about 30kms longer and climbs 200m higher.

[rifraf]

Before I forget,
I spotted yet another Rohloff shifter option that may not have come up before here
http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/2011/ ... r-rohloff/
You saw it here first (?)

So had we seen the Rohloff shifter before?

[RonK]

So had we seen the Rohloff shifter before?

No I have not seen that one before. But in any case Rohloff specific frames don't have downtube shifter bosses.
A trigger shifter would be interesting.



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[il padrone]

Mittelmeyer have one in the pipeline (for drop-bars) I believe.

Lieferbar ab März 2012

- "Available from March 2012"

[rifraf]

Before I forget,
I spotted yet another Rohloff shifter option that may not have come up before here
http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/2011/ ... r-rohloff/
You saw it here first (?)

So had we seen the Rohloff shifter before?

Spotted a better pic
https://plus.google.com/photos/10140040 ... banner=pwa

The current crop of twist shifters:
http://www.rohloff.de/en/news/news_rss/ ... index.html

Triggers shifters due out in March:
http://www.mittelmeyer.de/Fahrradteile/ ... ohloff.htm

Check out the Daumenschalter Prototype Trigger Shifter
http://cyclingabout.com/index.php/2011/ ... andlebars/

[RonK]

Yes, I had seen the Mittelmeyer before, and although it seems aesthetically a little brutal, it definitely looks the best option of the offerings I've seen so far. I'll be keeping an eye out for it to hit the market.

[onrbikes]

Hey Ron

Back to the bike.
I hope this doesn't offend, but what was the ballpark price tag? We too are looking at this bike but think $5500 is dear and would like to change some of the components. Your choice is pretty much what I've been looking at.
The frame alone is $2400. Did you get the frame here in Oz? At over 195cm (85kg) am looking at their largest frame

What did the bike weigh in at when complete?

Apologies if some of these have been answered but couldn't find the answer in the lengthy blog
PM me if it suits better
Good job

Thanks
Fred

[RonK]

I hope this doesn't offend, but what was the ballpark price tag? We too are looking at this bike but think $5500 is dear and would like to change some of the components. Your choice is pretty much what I've been looking at.
The frame alone is $2400. Did you get the frame here in Oz? At over 195cm (85kg) am looking at their largest frame

What did the bike weigh in at when complete?

Fred, I had been looking at this bike for more than two years, but the price on the VN site was too steep for me - configured the way I wanted it, the landed price in Oz would have been around $6500 after shipping and GST.

I'd given up on the idea, and had actually built titanium Sabbath Silk Route tourer, but one day I discovered Planet-X Bikes had the frame on sale, and I bought a frame, fork and EBB for $1485 USD, with the exchange rate in my favour. Somehow it slipped through customs inspection and I wasn't charged any import fees. I bought a Rohloff hub from Bike 24 and a Son 28 dynamo hub and rims from SJS Cycles. It took me a year to accumulate the rest of the components from Wiggle, Chain Reaction Cycles, Dotbike and Velo-Orange, placing orders whenever they had a good discount going. I don't know the exact cost, but I estimate it was around $4500 all up.

Planet-X bikes don't sell them anymore, but they are still available from Fatbirds, the site which supplied my Sabbath frame. However, I would advise you to clarify that the proper Van Nicholas VNT TRX Alloy Expedition / Touring Fork is supplied.

Weight is just under 16 kgs ready to tour, before adding toolbag, bidons and luggage.

[il padrone]

Weight is just under 16 kgs ready to tour, before adding toolbag, bidons and luggage.

Aaah, now some hard data. I recall that you claimed it was 12kg and I couldn't resolve that with my 16kg Thorn Nomad

The Thorn will now be something over 16kg as it has had an Abus Amparo wheel-lock added (but then I've replaced the Brooks Conquest with a Brooks Swift Ti so that's made it a bit lighter too).

[RonK]

Weight is just under 16 kgs ready to tour, before adding toolbag, bidons and luggage.

Aaah, now some hard data. I recall that you claimed it was 12kg and I couldn't resolve that with my 16kg Thorn Nomad

The Thorn will now be something over 16kg as it has had an Abus Amparo wheel-lock added (but then I've replaced the Brooks Conquest with a Brooks Swift Ti so that's made it a bit lighter too).

I made no such claim - that was your figure, and as we shall see, it's based on a false premise.

I'm sorry but you have something wrong there. I don't know what the weight of this Pioneer is but it must be made from some wonder 'Unobtanium' anti-matter tubing, because I don't believe the Thorn Nomad frame is > 4kg. I didn't weigh mine but other statements by owners suggest it is ~3.75kg. My Thorn all up weighs 16kg. A 12kg expedition tourer (or even regular tourer) would be an exceptional bike And the difference must be in a whole lot more than the frame.

It's right here in the original post.

What I said was:

As I have mentioned, there is much to like about the Nomad, and it is still in the running, but only just at around 4 kg heavier than the Pioneer.

My numbers were based on weights quoted for the complete bike on the VN web site, which was the best information available when I was evaluating the frames, compared to quoted weights for the Nomad on the web forums, since Thorn seem reluctant to publish them.

But in any case, you are being rather generous in claiming the weight of the Nomad is 16 kgs. Baalzamon has stated several times that his Nomad weighs 20kgs, but since you want to talk hard data, here is a very small-framed Nomad weighed with a proper bike scale. Hmmm, now let's see - 40lbs 13ozs divided by 2.2 = 18.5 kgs. So more than 2.5 kgs heavier than the Pioneer. That is 2.5+ kgs that I'm delighted to save, thanks very much.

[il padrone]

Hey, go easy! I was just joshing you


As for that 18.5kg Nomad, well I'll go out and weigh mine in a minute. But that one has a few crucial differences:
- S&S couplers
- Thorn racks (considerably more steel tubing than Tubus)
- possibly heavier MTB cage pedals
- space-bar on head tube
- tyres may be heavier than mine (I use 1.75" at present)

[edit] Well by my best 'bathroom scale' weigh-in it came out to............................ 18kg

So, OK a bit heavier now *puzzled*. But I rode it out to Noojee and back - 84kms in not much more than 4 hours riding time with a bunch of friends on road bikes. I carried panniers as well and had little trouble riding along with them and taking turns as well. It is what it is, and I get up all the hills I can find

[RonK]

But that one has a few crucial differences

Perhaps - but I doubt there are 2.5 kgs worth of differences.

The Pioneer is probably a bit lighter now as I've removed 2.0" Duremes I originally fitted and replaced them with 1.6" Supremes.

[il padrone]

Ah, that one doesn't have the Abus ringlock so not comparable.

[Max]

I look forward to this thread turning into a weight weenies weight-loss project

Max


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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk. All typos are Auto-Correct's fault, not mine

[RonK]

I look forward to this thread turning into a weight weenies weight-loss project

Not likely Max - I found that picture soon after Peter's "unobtanium post", but kept it to myself, and had a quiet chuckle when Baalzamon posted that his bike weighs 20kgs. But a fellow can only take so much provocation y'know.

I also noticed your comment about the weight of the VWR - once you get it loaded with all your touring gear and that monster tent, you'll begin to understand why 2.5+ kgs is worth saving (especially in Tasmania). So when you need tips about weight saving gear I have plenty of 'em.

[Wingnut]

Obvious really...

Ti frame, alloy fork, stem, bars, seat post, no fitted lock to the back wheel as on il padrone's bike...always going to be lighter, not necessarily better though...

[RonK]

always going to be lighter, not necessarily better though...

maybe - maybe not...but it's unlikely you'll ever be in a position to know which is better Wingy.

[Wingnut]

always going to be lighter, not necessarily better though...

maybe - maybe not...but it's unlikely you'll ever be in a position to know which is better Wingy.

Lol...you're a funny man RonK and a sucker...took the bait hook, line and sinker...

I've had many Ti bikes over the years RonK & still have three I rather like...but as you know me so well, it's unlikely I'll ever be in the position to know...

[RonK]

always going to be lighter, not necessarily better though...

maybe - maybe not...but it's unlikely you'll ever be in a position to know which is better Wingy.

Lol...you're a funny man RonK and a sucker...took the bait hook, line and sinker...

I've had many Ti bikes over the years RonK & still have three I rather like...but as you know me so well, it's unlikely I'll ever be in the position to know...

Well, after you've owned a Nomad and a Pioneer then you'll be able give us your informed opinion. But like I say - unlikely you'll ever be in a position to know which is better.

BTW - your troll was obvious, but I'm sure the response wasn't what you expected...

[Wingnut]

BTW - your troll was obvious, but I'm sure the response wasn't what you expected...

Yes RonK...your response was predictable...



Materials RonK...materials...Ti vs steel

"Ti frame, alloy fork, stem, bars, seat post, no fitted lock to the back wheel as on il padrone's bike...always going to be lighter, not necessarily better though..."

[rifraf]

While I have no regrets about my experiment with Rohloff - I can live with it and there will be a payoff long-term I expect (if my touring career lasts long enough), but I'm not impressed with it either, and won't be joining the Rohloff fan club...

Hi Ron,
its been a few months now and I was wondering where your thoughts were with regards to your Rohloff.
Are you any more comfortable with it and its use?
After my NSW to WA tour I've become even happier with my Sram Dualdrive and so am further away from my
thinking about a Rohloff for the Moulton at this stage.
I'm glad I went with a lower overall set of ratio's as even with my very low gearing I still experienced some knee discomfort
hauling around the trailer.
Especially on days with lots of rises.
I've ended up happier with my Dualdrive than I was initially and have wondered if you'd found more peace with your choice.