Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:53 pm

timmcc wrote:Go the tubes!!

Haha.... need to sell something?... quick 10 posts

.

Jake · Postby **Jake** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:44 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Yeah think it is just me...
You must use Tubeless specific tyres...no exceptions for road bikes.But ANY rim can be used tubeless.
I use Stans sealant tape 21mm wide yellow stuff...bit of a knack to get it on.I only use one layer,but it is very light so I am sure 2 would not be a problem.
I also use a stans valve...they seal the best.But some tubeless specific rims have designated valves (like shimano).
I run 30 mls of Stans No Tube Sealant in each tyre.

For ultegra rims ... get one roll of tape / 2 valves / small bottle of sealant / 2 CO2 canisters for the fitting unless the shop does it for you...and 2 tyres.

Thanks to this thread I have just received my conversion kit to tubeless for the roadie. Will give it a go soon and hopefully get fewer flatties.

Thanks for the info TLL!

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:21 pm

Ah well, after finding loose spokes on my front wheel tonight, I finally decided to experiment with a non-tubeless tyre on my tubeless converted rim. The 'Panaracer' I've been using previously has the 'bead from hell', so I fitted it up tubeless and inflated to 100psi. I was feeling very pleased with myself... for about 45 seconds before the latex-bomb went off in my hand. Luckily I was on the front porch, so it only took about ten minutes to wash all the latex off the outside of the house, but I did miss most of the latex I'd sprayed on myself. And my left ear was NOT happy. Neither were our dogs, our children, the neighborhood dogs, the neighbors... You would think a real bomb had gone off or something (it blew the tyre completely off when it went).

So, people, they are serious when they say you can't use an ordinary tyre for tubeless. Might work for MTB, but not for road.

Ross · Postby **Ross** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:45 am

twizzle wrote: So, people, they are serious when they say you can't use an ordinary tyre for tubeless. Might work for MTB, but not for road.

Lucky you found this out on your front porch and not bombing down Mt Ainslie at 70km/h+

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:49 am

There is a reason tubeless tyres are so heavy!.

Crawf · Postby **Crawf** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:56 am

Gotta laugh, did the same when was I was experimenting with a 32mm non tubeless at 80 psi, a 23mm(?) at 100psi would have been great! The clean up is fun

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:06 am

toolonglegs wrote:There is a reason tubeless tyres are so heavy!.

Nah, the Intensive is lighter than the Panaracer. The Panaracer has a kevlar bead, the Intensive has a 'carbon' (?) bead, both of them are about the same level of difficulty to fit.

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:07 am

Ross wrote:
twizzle wrote: So, people, they are serious when they say you can't use an ordinary tyre for tubeless. Might work for MTB, but not for road.
Lucky you found this out on your front porch and not bombing down Mt Ainslie at 70km/h+

I'm pretty sure it's in the category of 'work or fails quickly'. Then again, the news that TLL had one come off in a race isn't comforting.

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:09 am

Crawf wrote:Gotta laugh, did the same when was I was experimenting with a 32mm non tubeless at 80 psi, a 23mm(?) at 100psi would have been great! The clean up is fun

Wish I'd read your post first. Oh, well.

I wonder what's so different about the MTB tyres - unless it's just the lower pressure.

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:02 pm

I think the one that came off in a race was pumped up too high.
I looked back on that post and I had said I had 110-115 psi in the tyre... It was 35 degrees day or more.
These days I would only be running about 85-90 front and rear.
Also I had lost a tubed tyre off that old duraace front wheel previously in another race. Think there might have been a problem with the depth of the bead grove.

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:04 pm

twizzle wrote:
Crawf wrote:Gotta laugh, did the same when was I was experimenting with a 32mm non tubeless at 80 psi, a 23mm(?) at 100psi would have been great! The clean up is fun
Wish I'd read your post first. Oh, well.

I wonder what's so different about the MTB tyres - unless it's just the lower pressure.

25 psi versus 100 psi

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:16 pm

toolonglegs wrote:
twizzle wrote: Wish I'd read your post first. Oh, well.

I wonder what's so different about the MTB tyres - unless it's just the lower pressure.
25 psi versus 100 psi

Probably explains why they need pinch-flat protection in the first place! I'm sure the tyres on my old MTB inflated to 40+psi.

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:20 pm

twizzle wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:
twizzle wrote: Wish I'd read your post first. Oh, well.

I wonder what's so different about the MTB tyres - unless it's just the lower pressure.
25 psi versus 100 psi
Probably explains why they need pinch-flat protection in the first place! I'm sure the tyres on my old MTB inflated to 40+psi.

you could run your Mtb tyres up to 60 if you wanted I think... But that's the beauty of tubeless on Mtb's ... Low pressures you could never run on tubes without pinch flats everywhere.

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:27 pm

No matter what I did I couldn't get my cx tyres to be reliable though on tubeless. Even though I never had a dnf from a flat I was finishing with less than 20 psi in the tyres.
In the end I ran these bizarre Michelin square shaped pimple covered tubes that even though I had some big hits never seemed to pinch. Even down to 34 psi on 33 mm tyres.
Next season tubulars for sure... The weight penalty means an extra 300-400 grams a wheel and you do feel it.
Next season I will be a whippet too hahahaha!

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:00 pm

Hmmm.... after last nights effort in the rain (two cuts, blew out 95%+ of the sealant but managed to crawl home on ~ 40psi), I'm starting to question the whole tubeless thing again. Every time I've had a small cut with tubeless (ie, even a .5mm hole), it's become a latex fountain every time I've tried to add air.

People reckon 'stans' is the best product for puncture protection - but perhaps it works for low pressure MTB and not for high-pressure road tyres? Is there a product out there that actually works in road tyres?

visrealm · Postby **visrealm** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:14 pm

Have been reading this thread with much interest.

I'd been riding a slick-laden mountain bike for a while with only a single puncture (Maxxis Denonator 26 x 1.5" (AT) 80PSI). Then I got myself a road bike... how things changed. 2nd ride - pinch flat. within another week or so.. another. So far 3 in less than 400Kms.

Since I was so used to the relative trouble-free riding of the mountain bike I found this pretty discouraging and not being a lightweight (105Kg's) I've been running the 700c x 23's at 120-125PSI and checking them religiously before each outing.

Anyway, I've ordered (and now received) a set of Fusion 3's, valves, rim tape and a bottle of stan's and look forward to making the change. I'm not quite game enough to make the change before Sunday as I have a group ride (BikeSA Grand Slam Challenge #1), but I certainly will after that. Hopefully with the same success most of you are reporting.

jacks1071 · Postby **jacks1071** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:14 pm

twizzle wrote:Ah well, after finding loose spokes on my front wheel tonight, I finally decided to experiment with a non-tubeless tyre on my tubeless converted rim. The 'Panaracer' I've been using previously has the 'bead from hell', so I fitted it up tubeless and inflated to 100psi. I was feeling very pleased with myself... for about 45 seconds before the latex-bomb went off in my hand. Luckily I was on the front porch, so it only took about ten minutes to wash all the latex off the outside of the house, but I did miss most of the latex I'd sprayed on myself. And my left ear was NOT happy. Neither were our dogs, our children, the neighborhood dogs, the neighbors... You would think a real bomb had gone off or something (it blew the tyre completely off when it went).

So, people, they are serious when they say you can't use an ordinary tyre for tubeless. Might work for MTB, but not for road.

I guess some people just need to test it for themselves

jacks1071 · Postby **jacks1071** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:18 pm

twizzle wrote:Hmmm.... after last nights effort in the rain (two cuts, blew out 95%+ of the sealant but managed to crawl home on ~ 40psi), I'm starting to question the whole tubeless thing again. Every time I've had a small cut with tubeless (ie, even a .5mm hole), it's become a latex fountain every time I've tried to add air.

People reckon 'stans' is the best product for puncture protection - but perhaps it works for low pressure MTB and not for high-pressure road tyres? Is there a product out there that actually works in road tyres?

This one is supposed to be designed for road:

http://www.this link is broken/Mode ... elID=34010

I'm using it and its alright, it doesn't dry out like Stans. I have had a big cut that only sealed when there was about 30-40psi left in the tyre but I did ride it home like that. Tyre was good for the bin when I got home. Two years later I am still finding bits of sealant bonded to my frame but I think for sure the Joes stuff is better for road use than Stans.

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:21 pm

jacks1071 wrote: This one is supposed to be designed for road:

http://www.this link is broken/Mode ... elID=34010

I'm using it and its alright, it doesn't dry out like Stans. I have had a big cut that only sealed when there was about 30-40psi left in the tyre but I did ride it home like that. Tyre was good for the bin when I got home. Two years later I am still finding bits of sealant bonded to my frame but I think for sure the Joes stuff is better for road use than Stans.

Hmmm.... I'll order some when I do my next order. Worth a shot, I guess.

Crawf · Postby **Crawf** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:38 pm

I've converted all my wheelsets (4) to tubeless now, all running a mix of Atoms/Fusions/Intensives, I cannot fault any of the tyres so far and have been very impressed with the resilience of the Atoms despite them being classed as a race tyre - i'm absolutely converted. I still carry 2 tubes, because I just like to be cautious and I know there is a high chance of pinching a tube when re-mounting these tyres should that time ever come. Also have boots and patches to save me if I ever get a reasonable slit and will invest in some c02 soon for out on the road. Have found plenty of boogers too, so I know the sealant is doing its job.

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:10 pm

Twiz, on the some of the bigger cuts with a road bike you do need to stop and sometimes put the hole at the bottom while adding a bit more air and you will hear it seal up.

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:51 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Twiz, on the some of the bigger cuts with a road bike you do need to stop and sometimes put the hole at the bottom while adding a bit more air and you will hear it seal up.

Small cuts, and it just blew sealant out until the pressure dropped. As soon as I added air, it started leaking again.

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:52 pm

Yeah not normal if you have enough sealant in there.

twizzle · Postby **twizzle** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:10 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Yeah not normal if you have enough sealant in there.

60ml, I have trouble getting the tyre to seat while it's running out of the bottom of the tyre making a mess everywhere. And it's the beads that plug the hole, not the latex... and I make a huge effort to shake it up and get all the beads in the tyre that I can.

Cruiserman · Postby **Cruiserman** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:06 pm

did you make sure you got some of the "crystals" in the mix. Otherwise the latex can be a bit thin. Read the instructions about inverting the bottle to disperse them as they sink to the bottom if you don't. Don't know what you do to your tyres but I ride through about 3 - 4 patches of glass each day and the intensives are still going strong.