TT Wheels

Individual and Team TT

TT Wheels

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:51 pm

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by BNA » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:30 pm

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Re: TT Wheels

Postby Chookman » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:30 pm

Mike, further to the discussion on the Calga thread: for pure TT’ing my first choice is always a rear disc with either a trispoke or 80mm deep section front wheel. A Close 2nd would be a 100 rear 80mm front set up. I’d also recommend tubulars over clinchers for racing due to lower wheel weight and lower rolling resistance Wind doesn’t affect discs as much as some believe – it needs to be quite windy before you get a buffeting! Deep section front wheels are usually the cause of handling issues in strong crosswinds and for this reason I personally wouldn’t use anything deeper than 80mm

There are so many choices out there and I’m sure most of them are pretty good; however I’ll stick to the ones I know something about.

Zipp: if you want the latest and greatest Zipp are hard to beat. Expensive compared to most and the best I could find for a disc and 808 was around $2500 not inc delivery. Not sure how much they are in Oz these days but probably $4000?

Corima: nice wheels although not quite up to the standard of Zipp. Both pairs I’ve had have been out of true by a few mm which doesn’t affect performance, but is annoying when you’re paying a couple of thousand $

Planet X: A 101/82 or 82/82 wheelset for $700 delivered is pretty hard to beat.

I checked some of the US online stores and they tend to work out more expensive than those in the UK; especially for shipping. Ribble cycles and Evans Cycles were about the cheapest for Zipp and most other aero wheels; however Chain reaction has some good specials. Here are a few links:

http://www.evanscycles.com
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/
http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/c/q/wheels
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:46 pm

Thanks Cookman,

I was going to use some borrowed Corima's in this months NSW and Australian Individual Pursuits (2000mtrs) but have missed those due to injury. Being track wheels I can't use them for the road of course.

Last year I had a borrowed TT bike and borrowed Hed tri spoke wheels, which I took to Ballarat for the ITT race at the Australian Masters Road Champs and came no where. Earlier in the year I took bronze in the NSW masters ITT road champs on a road bike with clip on's.

At the NSW Masters TTT champs, we had problems with 2 riders and had to nurse one of them back, leaving him in third wheel while I did 23 of the last 25k on the front. It was so windy that I was the only rider who was able in the clip-ons. None of us had TT bikes and we took 4th, so this year we intend to be back. Anyway I'm saying that I'm not concerned about riding in the wind, I'm sure I'll adapt to the characteristics of the wheels.

It looks like I'll be able to borrow the TT bike again this year, but the wheels are owned by Australia's 5th fastest Triathelete and he's moved to Port Macquaire.

TT setup used at Australian Masters ITT
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TT setup used at NSW ITT and NSW TTT
Image

So with my track season screwed and a TT bike at my disposal (potentially), it leaves me with the bulk of my bike budget to spend on wheels. Having said that, there's no need to spend excessive amounts for trivial improvements. I'll probably end up with 2 sets of wheels, one for TT and one for road racing.
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:43 pm

A quick surf around shows those Planet X wheels to deliver the best price point, there's even a option to buy them with singles fitted, though it doesn't mention which glue they used.
Planet X 82/101 Carbon Wheels With Fitted Tubular Tyres
They are a little heavy but I'm not a weight weenie.

Haven't had much success locating a disc wheel
Corima Disc CN Tubular Wheels
Pretty reasonable, but I'd need to buy a shimano freehub too

Another option for the front
Corima 4 Spoke HR Carbon Wheel

Difficult to judge the performance of the wheels just by looking at them, so I need to go off your recommendations.

I also have access to an experienced wheel builder who does a pretty good job, cost me a slab for a build
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TT Wheels

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:44 pm

Tyre sizes?...19 21 or 23?.
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby Chookman » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:27 pm

Mike, you're right - not many discs around! Evans cycles has them due within 3 weeks for $1600. They have a 15% off special if you buy 3 items so this may be worth looking at?

Toolonglegs, i think the idea is to match your rim width. The trend seems to be toward 22-23mm. both Zipp and Corima are recommending this for their latest wheels. Previous Corima discs were 20mm wide so I've always used 21mm Vittoria Corsa EVO. I'd love to try the Vittoria Crono; however I'm not game as they are pretty fragile!
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:50 pm

OK so the wheel makes have recommendations on best tyres to match their wheels...makes sense :lol:
No TT's here until August, well unless I do some stage races,but they always get too hilly after the TT's!.
Just trying to slowly put together the bits I will need (cheap but good)... I think my biggest problem will be finding a frame to fit my 194cm. Canyon do an XL in alloy but never have stock. Going off topic already..sorry Mike. But how does one convert their road bike dimensions to a TT bike?.
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:34 pm

Cookman, which disc should I hang out for?

TLL, no probs with off topic, I understand fully your concerns. Using my track bike as example, the bike presents an issue with stem height, as I have short legs and long arms. Here in race format, I use a 25.4mm adjustable stem to get the handlebars a little lower
Image

Last year, using the track bike for the individual pursuit and team pursuit, the stem height became a real disaster. I set it up with a 31.8mm standard stem and my body was too high. Out of the start machine my body looks good
Image

However when in the clips, my body was too high (sorry about the bad pic)
Image

So I've built a new assembly for this year, using a pista stem to get it lower and its one test run it felt a lot better, but I don't have a photo of me on it. As I'm not racing, my track bike has been borrowed and this is a picture of him on the bike, his position looks good to me
Image
He has longer legs than me and shorter arms, so I suspect that I still haven't got the position perfect.

The lesson from the above is that it may take quite a bit of work to get your position right if you have the wrong frame. What you could do is work on the position on your road bike by adding clip-ons and once you are happy with the position, use the measurement to determine what TT frame size you want.
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:00 pm

The bad pic is just showing your speed Mike :P .
I don't think I can go too much off my roadbike (if my new frame is similar to my old) as it is a 63cm and a TT frame will never be similar.
Got to lose weight and get my back to bend more first... only just been able to reach the drops in the last month :lol: .
I have 28 weeks till regional's and 32 weeks till nationals ... pretty sure it will come around quickly :oops: .
Just researching at the moment... I know I can make the power when healthy, but what use is nearly 400w for 20 minutes if you are the shape of a brick wall :lol: .
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby Chookman » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:18 pm

Mike, As you do some track racing, I'd hang out for the Zipp 900 disc. they can be used for road or track - there is a track axle adaptor which is pretty inexpensive and the conversion is done in a few minutes. Corima also do a track converter but it costs a lot more and is a pain in the arse to convert. The wheel has to be ordered from the factory with the hub set up to take the convertor, and this costs extra. Also, good luck trying to get hold of one!
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:15 pm

I've thought hard about buying one wheel for both, but there's some downfalls in particular the tyres.

I think I'll go for different wheels for road TT and track. I don't need the track wheels until the end of the year as this season is over for me.
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:24 pm

mikesbytes wrote:He has longer legs than me and shorter arms, so I suspect that I still haven't got the position perfect.

Well I sure wouldn't be using that rider as a positioning guide unless you want to screw yourself badly.

Mike, deep section front (as deep as you are comfortable riding in the conditions on the day*), disk on the rear, forget about wheel weight differences (it is irrelevant to TT performance), match tyre width to rim and use really low Crr tyres. end of story.


* some deep wheels are better to ride in cross winds than others, but in general, 80mm is a practical limit, deeper tends to be an option if day is mostly calm or a light breeze only. On really bad days you may want a 40mm rim. Always a disk on rear no matter the wind. There are some very minor performance differences between disks, but it depends on the frame and you have other low hanging fruit to pick first before getting into that.

Disk wheel covers offer the same performance advantage for fraction of the cost of a disk (Indeed disk covers on an 808 tested better than some disks). In fact I'd consider a 40mm deep rear with disk covers for TTs (that's what I used at the UCI World Cup when I was the fastest Aussie). Then you have a great road race wheel, and can set it up specially for TTs.
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:06 pm

The example of the position is not perfect as he is bracing himself against the wall

So disk covers pass the scrutineer? I thought covers weren't permitted?

80mm for the front. Go for a spoke front wheel? Cheaper than a solid wheel such as the hed 3's I used.
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby philip » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:05 am

Those planet x prices are unreal. The 60mm clincher for $600ish is pretty tempting for road races and for the occasional TT as well
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby philip » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:13 pm

philip wrote:The 60mm clincher for $600ish is pretty tempting for road races

hmm scratch that.. not on the UCI approved list
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:17 pm

Most wheels ain't on the UCI approved list. I've never been scrutinized for whether the wheels are on the UCI list
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby philip » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:35 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Most wheels ain't on the UCI approved list. I've never been scrutinized for whether the wheels are on the UCI list

Are you talking about wheels that have < 25mm rims and at least 16 spokes? If so they are a "traditional" wheel and are allowed, they don't need to be on the approved list. In any case, I'd rather have compliant wheels than just hope that they don't get checked.
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby Grim » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:00 pm

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Front FLO 60 and 90: $424 $375 ($49 Savings)
Rear FLO 60 and 90: $474 $425 ($49 Savings)
FLO DISC: $599 $500 ($99 Savings)
Ceramic Bearing upgrades will be $100 per wheel

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Re: TT Wheels

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:56 pm

I've got plenty of time to crack this

Locally I can get a good deal on Miche disc wheels AU$1,000

They seem to have stuffed their advert for their road disc wheel
Miche 358 Supertype Carbon Deep V (Rear Disk)
As a result info like free hub body and weight are missing

This is their track disc wheel, I know someone who's got one so I'll get some feedback
Miche Supertype Pista Carbon Deep V - Rear Disc
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TT Wheels

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:21 pm

http://m.bikeradar.com/news/article/how ... ero-19273/
Found this while sitting around at kids play jungle :-)
Might be a couple years old but still relevant I suppose. I was surprised that it was 70 w difference between a normal road bike set up and tt setup at 300 w max.
Better start saving my pennies!... There is one ugly mofo trek tt frame for sale locally ... Not many 2 nd hand xl frames around!.
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TT Wheels

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:25 pm

PS Chookman, do you race road as well?. How much time do you spend on your tt bike per week?.
Also noticed Ribble has a new frame for us tight arses... and they do an XL :D .
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... IBBFRAT206
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:33 am

mikesbytes wrote:So disk covers pass the scrutineer? I thought covers weren't permitted?

It is one of those things that's quite ambiguous in the rules. Given that this is exactly how some disks are actually made, it's a grey area.

Fitted well, you can barely tell the difference without very close inspection.

I rode one at the UCI World Cup last May. I was fastest Aussie in category, 2nd fastest all categories.
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby Chookman » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:53 am

toolonglegs wrote:PS Chookman, do you race road as well?. How much time do you spend on your tt bike per week?.
Also noticed Ribble has a new frame for us tight arses... and they do an XL :D .
<A class=vglnk title="Link added by VigLink" href="http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/Frames-TT-Ribble-Ultra-TT-Frame-inc-Seatclamp/RIBBFRAT206" rel=nofollow target=_blank vglnk_1329774242828="1">http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/Frames-TT-Ribble-Ultra-TT-Frame-inc-Seatclamp/RIBBFRAT206</A>


TLL, I haven't done much road racing in the last 10 years. I'm from a triathlon background and have just been doing TT's for the last few years. I don't spend a lot of time on my TT bike on the road, although I spend a fair amount of time on the indoor trainer with a old Cannondale with a similar setup; around 40-50% of my time at this point.

The Ribble frame is produced (I believe) in the same factory as the new Planet X Exocet 2 which I have on order. Front end is identical, geometry and rear end is different. I have seen a few of the earlier Ribble TT frames and they are well made and fantastic value.
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:58 am

philip wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:Most wheels ain't on the UCI approved list. I've never been scrutinized for whether the wheels are on the UCI list

Are you talking about wheels that have < 25mm rims and at least 16 spokes? If so they are a "traditional" wheel and are allowed, they don't need to be on the approved list. In any case, I'd rather have compliant wheels than just hope that they don't get checked.


I used 31mm (I think) rims with low spoke counts, but to be honest they didn't even look at the wheels

Edit: I've also used Reynolds carbon wheels, around 50mm
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Re: TT Wheels

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:38 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:So disk covers pass the scrutineer? I thought covers weren't permitted?

It is one of those things that's quite ambiguous in the rules. Given that this is exactly how some disks are actually made, it's a grey area.

Fitted well, you can barely tell the difference without very close inspection.

I rode one at the UCI World Cup last May. I was fastest Aussie in category, 2nd fastest all categories.


Sounds good Alex, where do I get the covers?
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