Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zone

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Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zone

Postby Ross » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:00 pm

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 6283944613

WEST Metropolitan Traffic's top officer has issued a reminder to cyclists that they must abide by the same road rules as motorists after a man was caught speeding through a school zone on his bicycle.

Senior Constable Lance Munckton was shocked to clock a cyclist doing 56km/h through a children’s crossing outside St John’s Primary School in Scarborough during morning peak hour earlier this month.

It was the fastest speed of a bicycle the officer had ever recorded in 28 years of policing.

The speed limit in designated school zones is 40km/h.

The 34-year-old cyclist from Mt Hawthorn was fined $150 and issued two demerit points – a penalty he was “very annoyed” with.

West Metropolitan Traffic officer-in-charge Patricia Lagan said although there was no one crossing at the time, a bicycle hitting a pedestrian at that speed was likely to kill or seriously injure them.
The cyclist could not be contacted for comment.

Read more at inmycommunity.com.au


There's a poll on the website as well asking "Should cyclists face same rules as drivers and be issued demerit points for speeding?"

484 comments too, didn't read all of them but most of them are the usual cyclists should pay rego etc etc
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by BNA » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:11 pm

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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:11 pm

Been covered in the WA sub forum. Anybody wishing to flame the clown concerned can do it there thanks.

I won't lock this thread due to the question posed and wouldn't mind seeing a healthy pros and cons discussion of the demerit points thing in the safety section.

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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Zynster » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:36 pm

Cyclists already do face the same rules as drivers. This question infers that this is not the case. There are some specific rules pertaining to cyclists. Filtering on the left and riding 2 abreast are examples. But generally they are the same rules.

Lacking a speedo might offer a defence. Though doing 56kph in a 40k zone would be heard to justify.

As for the demerit points, this a bit more vague, as a rider may not have a license. Or if they lose their license due to demerit points obtained while riding a bicycle, I don't think they can be legally stopped from riding a bike, even if they can no longer drive their car.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby find_bruce » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:15 pm

You would have thought if anyone knew the law in WA it would be the "West Metropolitan Traffic's top officer".
Road Traffic Act 1974 - Section 104A wrote:(2) An offence cannot be a demerit point offence in WA unless it involves the driving or use of a motor vehicle.

As Aushiker points out, a bicycle ain't a motor vehicle.

Given he has "28 years experience", it almost makes me feel better about being wrong on the issue myself. :oops:

That said, 56km/h in a school zone is not the brightest thing to do, regardless of fine or points.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Aushiker » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:46 pm

find_bruce wrote:You would have thought if anyone knew the law in WA it would be the "West Metropolitan Traffic's top officer".


Might be asking too much given Superintendent John Lindley (Superintendent being the fourth highest rank of Officer the WA Police Force) has an issue understanding regulations written in plain English :wink: . To quote the Superintendent.

They recommend for.your own safety and as per Reg 112 of the Road Traffic Code to keep to the left of the lane.


Regulation 112 states ...

112. Keeping as far left as practicable
(1) Except where these regulations provide otherwise, a driver shall keep the vehicle as close as practicable to the left boundary of the carriageway, except where 2 or more lanes marked on the
carriageway are available exclusively for vehicles travelling in the same direction
.

and the road of concern, Tydeman Road has two lanes exclusively for vehicles travelling the same direction.

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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby David_G » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:54 pm

Zynster wrote:Lacking a speedo might offer a defence. Though doing 56kph in a 40k zone would be hard to justify.


It would be impossible to justify IMO.

But his defence might run along the lines of:

"Sorry Your Worship, I had it on the big ring and way down on the rear cassette, and I was pedalling like the clappers.

Who would've thought that I was doing more than 40km/h?"
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby KonaCommuter » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:23 pm

David_G wrote:
Zynster wrote:Lacking a speedo might offer a defence. Though doing 56kph in a 40k zone would be hard to justify.


It would be impossible to justify IMO.

But his defence might run along the lines of:

"Sorry Your Worship, I had it on the big ring and way down on the rear cassette, and I was pedalling like the clappers.

Who would've thought that I was doing more than 40km/h?"




Maybe it was unsafe for him to check his speedo based on the number of cars about :?: Got to keep an eye out for doors opening
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Xplora » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:46 pm

Something to be mindful about I guess. It really depends if it was reasonable for the cyclist to have some idea of how fast they are going... but if you are speeding, you're speeding. That's how the laws are set up, and cops tend to camp out school zones looking for easy money.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby damhooligan » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:52 pm

KonaCommuter wrote:Maybe it was unsafe for him to check his speedo based on the number of cars about :?: Got to keep an eye out for doors opening


If there are to many cars around, he is defenatly going to fast for the conditions...

Mind you, you can also speed if you stay under the speed limit.
if you go to fast for the condition, you are doing it wrong, and deserve to be fined !

But the biggest mistake the cyclist did was speeding in the schoolzone, that location defenatly made the fine suited .
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby damhooligan » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:14 pm

Ross wrote: "Should cyclists face same rules as drivers and be issued demerit points for speeding?"


The 'same' ??
No !

A cyclist is not the same as a driver of a heavy motorised vehicle, and can not be threated the same way !!

Many rules are not designed to protect the driver, but to prevent the driver from hurting others.
Yes, a cyclist can also harm others, but not even close as to the extent a driver can.
Therfore, in my humble opnion, you can not say, same rules for both, as they are way to different...

But in saying that, a cyclist has also the same responsibilties, as to not put someone else in danger,
Speeding in a schoolzone i consider to be dangerous to the kids that go to school.
So that fine was more then justified.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby rokwiz » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:13 pm

Good,
Until cyclist start obeying road rules we are never going to be taken serious, Come on 56km in a 40 zone so he should get booked and demerited. yeh,yeh I already know what some of you are going to write! but the law stats this under sect 7 of no 14 article... clause 5... sub headed suasage rolls... iten 2. and I quote....... I know there's been a steady up turn in cycling in Oz, thats fantastic it did that in the 70 as well due to the fuel crisis, but just wondering how many cyclist are clued up on road rules themselves.
I reckon every person who sits a driving test should do, time on a bicycle, time riding shotgun in a semi, and a bus before even getting near a 4 wheel fruitfly
Just my two bobs worth
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby damhooligan » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:25 pm

rokwiz wrote:Good,
Until cyclist start obeying road rules we are never going to be taken serious, Come on 56km in a 40 zone so he should get booked and demerited. yeh,yeh I already know what some of you are going to write! but the law stats this under sect 7 of no 14 article... clause 5... sub headed suasage rolls... iten 2. and I quote....... I know there's been a steady up turn in cycling in Oz, thats fantastic it did that in the 70 as well due to the fuel crisis, but just wondering how many cyclist are clued up on road rules themselves.
I reckon every person who sits a driving test should do, time on a bicycle, time riding shotgun in a semi, and a bus before even getting near a 4 wheel fruitfly
Just my two bobs worth
Geoff.



why should he get demerited ??
what porpouse does that serve ??
The dutch have one word to describe the aussie MHL, this word is ;
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:41 pm

Nothing wrong with demeriting wrongdoing road users for non motorised offences.

As long as it's ALL of them.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby find_bruce » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:46 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Nothing wrong with demeriting wrongdoing road users for non motorised offences.
As long as it's ALL of them.

Actually they don't even demerit wrongdoing for all motorised offences.

I find it curious how many drivers think that the greatest punishment you can inflict on a cyclist is to ... threaten his or her driver's licence ... which of course has precisely zero effect on their ability to ride a bike.

Maybe a better punishment for a cylist caught speeding is to slow them down with a weight penalty.

<10 km/h over, 1 month limited to bikes weighing 15kg or more
10-20 km/h over, 3 months limited to bikes weighing 20kg or more
>20 km/h over, 6 months riding a cargo bike with a sandbag in it.

At the end of it the cyclist will either have slowed down, or be very, very fit :D
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Kraeg » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:27 pm

He broke my record of 55 in a school zone... I'm glad he has to cough up for it!
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby damhooligan » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:37 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Nothing wrong with demeriting wrongdoing road users for non motorised offences.

As long as it's ALL of them.



That wil only be helpfull if a cyclists has a cycling license...
but please, lets not go there....
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Euan » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:00 pm

rokwiz wrote:[b][i]Good,
Until cyclist start obeying road rules we are never going to be taken serious,


It may have escaped your attention, car drivers don't obey the road rules. I expect that it's because they happen to kill and maim regularly that they're taken seriously :roll:

You've got a bit of a logic problem there.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:03 pm

damhooligan wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:Nothing wrong with demeriting wrongdoing road users for non motorised offences.

As long as it's ALL of them.



That wil only be helpfull if a cyclists has a cycling license...
but please, lets not go there....



Notjust talkin' riders Johan, I really mean everybody, who uses the publicly provided infrastructure. Legs or wheels, if you get pinged being naughty, yer gone. If it is believed that pointing legally license free users such as cyclists can make people behave better when smokeboxing, then it should apply to all road users, think how much better riding the city would have if redmanning was the exception.

Help stamp out the class system on our roads!

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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby eeksll » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:30 am

demerit point deduction has always seemed a little odd to me.

its a drivers license not a allowed to use the road license. Its almost like being deducted demerit points for jaywalking.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby PawPaw » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:59 am

As tough as it is for the rider, I think he and many others need to spend as much time researching what happens to human bodies in bicycle accidents, as road rules. The police are absolutely right that someone could easily be killed if the cyclist hit them at that speed. Pedestrians don't wear helmets.
I know of a girl who was going to dux her senior year until she was run into by a cyclist in Brisbane. Her IQ dropped significantly in conjunction with post traumatic amnesia, after her head struck the road. She had 9 months off school and went back to realize she had lost the ability to concentrate as before.
That's a serious and permanent loss of human potential that some cowboy cyclists need to develop a more sober and less egocentric attitude about.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Euan » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:34 am

PawPaw wrote:As tough as it is for the rider, I think he and many others need to spend as much time researching what happens to human bodies in bicycle accidents, as road rules. The police are absolutely right that someone could easily be killed if the cyclist hit them at that speed. Pedestrians don't wear helmets.
I know of a girl who was going to dux her senior year until she was run into by a cyclist in Brisbane. Her IQ dropped significantly in conjunction with post traumatic amnesia, after her head struck the road. She had 9 months off school and went back to realize she had lost the ability to concentrate as before.
That's a serious and permanent loss of human potential that some cowboy cyclists need to develop a more sober and less egocentric attitude about.


No question, however the scale of the problem is miniscule compared to the trauma inflicted by privately owned motor vehicles, up to 18 billion dollars a year now.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby rokwiz » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:21 am

Road rules are for everyone who uses them, including jaywalking which I stupidly did in Bendigo got pinged for it, paid my dues and will not do it again. (A zero tolerence town) Mate, I think I know whos got the logic problem
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby PawPaw » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:03 pm

Euan wrote:No question, however the scale of the problem is miniscule compared to the trauma inflicted by privately owned motor vehicles, up to 18 billion dollars a year now.


Yep, but unfortunately, people are not rational. Society turns a blind eye to many injustices. Currently, many have a hate thing with cyclists, no matter how irrational. Of course the real reason they are pi$$ed off is due to traffic congestion, commute time and frustration, higher house prices, unsatiated consumer appetite, cr@p bosses, bad diet, bad parents, etc, etc.

Once you accept humans are irrational and driven primarily by self interest (some more than others), you start to be less pi##ed off with the behavior of others, and more able to create adaptive behaviors that give you a Darwinian survival advantage.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby zero » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:43 pm

rokwiz wrote:Road rules are for everyone who uses them, including jaywalking which I stupidly did in Bendigo got pinged for it, paid my dues and will not do it again. (A zero tolerence town) Mate, I think I know whos got the logic problem
Geoff


Bold Italics are pretty hard to read if its more than a 1 liner. I'm not reading the second half of your longer posts because of that.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby rokwiz » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:31 pm

Tough crowd,Sorry about that chief, yeh I even use bold italics on my website! Just like the style I guess.Geoff
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