Am I unreasonably obstructing traffic?

[Xplora]

In this day and age, you should go the full brutal if you know your rights and the law. If they get the slightest bit heavy handed, just put the phone on the counter and advise them that this conversation is being recorded and may be entered into evidence at a later date. Confirm the time and date at the beginning of the recording, and get their details. Summarise the previous parts of the conversation, and then tell them that you will be lodging complaints through all appropriate channels if they refuse to continue the conversation. Remind them as public servants, they are obliged to deal with your issues with impartiality... on the recording.

Full brutal.

[gretaboy]

In this day and age, you should go the full brutal if you know your rights and the law. If they get the slightest bit heavy handed, just put the phone on the counter and advise them that this conversation is being recorded and may be entered into evidence at a later date. Confirm the time and date at the beginning of the recording, and get their details. Summarise the previous parts of the conversation, and then tell them that you will be lodging complaints through all appropriate channels if they refuse to continue the conversation. Remind them as public servants, they are obliged to deal with your issues with impartiality... on the recording.

Full brutal.

hahahah and watch their reaction towards you....like you just turned into the devil

you will find a lot of police, especially highway patrol as they usually work alone, will have their own recorders going in their pockets to try and cover their backsides against complaints against them..they see no issue with it and I have no issue with it as well.

however, when you as Joe Citizen, wish to record your conversation with them, especially if they are in the wrong, watch them clam up and refuse to deal with you, or demand that the recorder be stopped...same goes for filming them. They will pull out a raft of laws stating that you cant do it and so forth. It would be very funny their reaction if it wasnt for the fact that you were only doing it to try and protect your rights and felt you had to do it in the first place.

There are a lot of good police out there, please dont think I am a cop hater, its just unfortunately for me I have had experiences with them with these type of things which sees my views slightly slanted and cycnical.

As xplora stated, you really have to know your rights and the law to make the law work for you.

[InTheWoods]

Thanks guys, but I don't see a need to go in and make a scene. I'll just do a written complaint (which will be more effective anyway) and let it run its course. Its not personal (I hope), he just doesn't seem to understand the rules. If he's using it as a way to make me go away, well haven't we all done that at work before True, its his job, and that's why I'll do the complaint. He's probably up to his eyeballs in stupid pointless internal paperwork that is treated by his superiors as being more important than real work, like enforcing road rules...

Just to clarify again, I don't believe he will actually infringe me. But I don't like the precedent, and its hard enough trying get motorists to understand the rules, but only harder if the police don't know them either (or enforce them). Or I could be wrong in which case I'll get something in writing from the QPS stating that cyclists can't use a T2 lane if they can't do the speed limit and there is a path beside the road ... and we can take it from there

[Xplora]

hahahah and watch their reaction towards you....like you just turned into the devil

Of course. And you can state that you will gladly turn off the recorder once they state their name and ID number, and a reference to the statutes that prevent you from recording the conversation, because if they are incorrect then they will surely be trangressing and should be concerned about official complaints against them - refusing to be recorded is a big deal, and points to shiftiness.

[Oxford]

the police do not always use all of their recording either. funny how the ends of conversations do not get recorded, that's right eh the part threatening you with all manner abuses of their power.

Inwood, the incident seems to have occurred in the Metro North area, here's a link to the person you need to contact:

http://www.qgd.qld.gov.au/pol-dept.html#a21

send the letter addressed to the Assistant Commissioner, Metro North at Roma Street (or PO Box), it will get to them. Also include the Minister and the local member but send them all (cc'd) after the election when you know who they are.

[zozza]

Why is this in General Discussion?
Why is it so hard for people to post stuff in the correct forums?
.

Get over it Smudgy

[The 2nd Womble]

Why is this in General Discussion?
Why is it so hard for people to post stuff in the correct forums?
.

Get over it Smudgy

You have to allow for Smugy's rants

[sumgy]

Why is this in General Discussion?
Why is it so hard for people to post stuff in the correct forums?
.

Get over it Smudgy

Yeah, you are right..
I dont know why we are bothering to have all of the other forums.
Complete waste of time.
In fact, why bother even having seperate threads at all??
I have a sore hand from being hit by a car back in January.
It has been in plaster for 6 weeks as I broke my scaphoid.
Should I get a 2nd opinion on whether it needs surgery?
And what saddle should I get that matches my helmet?

[greyhoundtom]

Yeah, you are right..
I dont know why we are bothering to have all of the other forums.
Complete waste of time.
In fact, why bother even having seperate threads at all??

Moved to Forum & Site Feedback

I have a sore hand from being hit by a car back in January.
It has been in plaster for 6 weeks as I broke my scaphoid.
Should I get a 2nd opinion on whether it needs surgery?

Moved to Cycling Health

And what saddle should I get that matches my helmet?

It may be better to get a saddle and a helmet that both match your bum.........that way your bum will be comfortable riding upright or upside down...........and your helmet will match your saddle as well.

[InTheWoods]

Just wanted to post a final followup. I sent my complaint to the Assistant Commissioner for my area, and in response have received a phone call and letter from the Officer In Charge of the station. I felt it was a constructive response, in particular the phone call was quite positive as his focus is on safety particularly via education. In summary:

• He found that although the investigation was thorough, the officer's findings and recommendations may have been misconstrued due to his and his supervisor's interpretation of road legislation
• He has educated all members of the station as to the correct rules in relation to cyclists and other road users.
• He has recommended a formal training package be developed for all members throughout the state as reminder of the road rules as they apply to cyclists
• I won't be given a traffic infringement
• He has spoken to the ute driver again with an educational focus on the importance of safety for all road users and will not TIN him for the dodgy lane change (which is the outcome I wanted and asked for basically - I didn't want him TIN'd for something that didn't put me in danger) - education is more important to me than punishment, unless its an incident with malice. I was happy about how he described what he discussed with the driver.

I also asked for the police's interpretation of s140 and s144 as it applies to overtaking cyclists. I did this because I saw a recent post on here with the WA police's interpretation being that if you don't get hit, even if it was super close, nothing wrong was done. The basic answer is that there is no hard and fast rule as to what a safe passing distance is as it depends on the conditions, speeds etc. But it seemed that these sections could be broken by coming too close without actually hitting you. He gave an example of an otherwise empty 2 lane each way road, and getting a deliberate close shave.

So I'd say a positive outcome.

[find_bruce]

Always nice to hear that your efforts have achieved a good outcome - sometimes advocacy is about influenncing thousands, sometimes just one or two.

[Xplora]

Always nice to hear that your efforts have achieved a good outcome - sometimes advocacy is about influenncing thousands, sometimes just one or two.

+1 Indeed. Vulnerable road users legislation might be a while away, but it's not unreasonable to expect that drivers are complying with the Road Rules as they stand.

[Oxford]

cool, I reckon that's a great outcome.

[Mulger bill]

Good to hear ITW. IMO the statewide training promise for plods is even better than getting the smokeboxer tapped on the shoulder.

Shaun

[jules21]

Good to hear ITW. IMO the statewide training promise for plods is even better than getting the smokeboxer tapped on the shoulder.

+ 1

[alan parker]

The police are pestering cyclists in bicycle Lanes and handing out $305 fines and pedestrians are invading the bike lanes on Swanston Street and the police do nothing about it ?

If you get a fine go to court and defend your self ,like I did once, on the "ground that charge should be dismissed because it was trivial" . Magistrates often dismiss charges that are trivial because they are wasting the courts time. Ask for the precise meaning of the charge in the recent Transport Act and Vic Roads regulations.

Trams have been running in Melbourne for at least 80 years, and what was the fine, before the new fine of $305 was introduced.
Also why the police are not charging pedestrians for being in a bike lane except when a tram has stopped at a tram stop.

Ask for a postponement of your case because you have not yet researched these issues. To find the most sensible way dealing with
pedestrians and cyclists using the bike lanes. BV has legal people who are obliged to give advice on this issue because is a matter of concern to all cyclists.

Alan Parker OAM

[email protected]
Tel 613 5984 3578
Website http://alanparker-pest.org/

[Comedian]

On top of al the above, your video shows that there are two lanes and the driver had more than enough room to move across to the other lane to pass.
The red car held back to let him in and the black one that then pulled out and passed you had no problem whatever. No even remotely an obstruction

Thats the issue I have with the claim the lane theory. Drivers shave for giggles... not because they have to. No matter where you are in the lane if someone wants to shave you they will even if they have to bridge two lanes to do it.

[zero]

On top of al the above, your video shows that there are two lanes and the driver had more than enough room to move across to the other lane to pass.
The red car held back to let him in and the black one that then pulled out and passed you had no problem whatever. No even remotely an obstruction

Thats the issue I have with the claim the lane theory. Drivers shave for giggles... not because they have to. No matter where you are in the lane if someone wants to shave you they will even if they have to bridge two lanes to do it.

The claim the lane theory doesn't in anyway pretend to protect against deliberate close shavers. It helps with the lazy, the I think I can fit, and the "i don't really know what to do" type drivers - who are far more common. Also by making people deviate or change lanes to go around you, you run far less risk of being rear ended by a tailgater who is driving offset in a traffic queue.

[Comedian]

On top of al the above, your video shows that there are two lanes and the driver had more than enough room to move across to the other lane to pass.
The red car held back to let him in and the black one that then pulled out and passed you had no problem whatever. No even remotely an obstruction

Thats the issue I have with the claim the lane theory. Drivers shave for giggles... not because they have to. No matter where you are in the lane if someone wants to shave you they will even if they have to bridge two lanes to do it.

The claim the lane theory doesn't in anyway pretend to protect against deliberate close shavers. It helps with the lazy, the I think I can fit, and the "i don't really know what to do" type drivers - who are far more common. Also by making people deviate or change lanes to go around you, you run far less risk of being rear ended by a tailgater who is driving offset in a traffic queue.

The last time I rode a bike in my teens I was hit by a close shaver's mirror when I wasn't claiming a lane. The closest I've come to being hit by a car since starting riding again was while claiming the lane on a deserted multi lane road when a young tradie decided to teach me a lesson for claiming or for giggles. Who knows but it was deliberate and when I caught him he couldn't offer any explanation.

I agree claiming works for the lazy and most people but unfortunately it's a call to every fruitcake on the road that you've got attitude and you're right in front of them and ready to be taught a lesson... come get me!

In the case here I'd go the adjacent shared path I'm afraid. A bit slower and there are no doubt issues but that's what I'd do. If there wasn't a shared path I'd claim the lane, but if it was a regular I'd find a better way that didn't place me in conflict with traffic. In regards to the question "Am i unreasonably obstructing traffic?" my answer would be no but the reality is that I'm not prepared to use my body to make the point.

[zero]

That fruitcake would have driven deliberately close to you when he saw you, unless there was a physical barrier between you and him. Where you were on the roadway was unimportant. I can tell you that because the same fruitcakes will drive into the shoulder to do the same thing.

In NSW I have no choice. The closest sharepath is 1km away from my house, and I'm much older than the age limit for riding on the footpath. I must ride on the road for parts of my journeys. I must deal with fruitcakes, and I must deal with the vastly more common optimistic or careless driver. Claiming a lane is the best strategy for that.

[Mulger bill]

^
What he said (NSW conditions excepted), while there are aggro, "I'll show him" types out there, they are well outnumbered by the timid, uncertain or plain silly. These ones will give you space if you look like you deserve it.

Not bagging your view Comic, I always choose the non road option where possible but sometimes a lack of alternatives means you have to play with the big boys and it's better to know the rules of the game before getting onto the paddock.

Shaun

[Xplora]

.... Who knows but it was deliberate and when I caught him he couldn't offer any explanation.

... and you avoided an assault charge? God help me if I ever get clipped, and then find them again

[Comedian]

.... Who knows but it was deliberate and when I caught him he couldn't offer any explanation.

... and you avoided an assault charge? God help me if I ever get clipped, and then find them again

Judging by his face I believe he was a little disappointed that the light just over the hill went red, and there were cars in front that boxed him in. I'm pretty sure he would have just run the red to get away from me if he could. Little coward.

I'm afraid I don't agree with the people that argue that these fruitcakes would shave you no matter where you are. I've never been bothered by a fruit cake or even been aware of their existence while gutter hugging. It's only when I've stepped onto their playground and waved a middle digit at them them by lane taking that I've even been aware of them.

Each to their own... I guess it's personal.

[diggler]

you were never going to get charged. Unfortunately, the driver was never going to get charged. The only way you could get this idiot to keep some distance is with some spurs on your bike, Ben Hur style.

Why did he blow his horn? What exactly did he want you to do?