Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
- The Walrus
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Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby The Walrus » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:46 pm
Given that I've never had a road bike I'm not sure if I'll get into or even like it that much, so I'm reluctant to spend that much. Also there's some pretty good looking deals on both new and second hand alloy bikes these days (I assume because everyone is upgrading?) So I could get a very tidy bike for a fraction of the price...
I test road a Specialized roadie at the weekend and it was obvioulsy super lightweight but as I'm getting into it for 30-50k rides for keeping fit/losing a few kilos and NOT for racing, I'm not sure if I need such a light bike.
So my question is...Should I wait and save up or get an alloy bike to start with and see how I like it? Will a cheaper bike give me a 'good' insight to road riding or will it potentially put me off as its not a great ride?
Cheers
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby gururug » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:55 pm
To be honest, it won't make that much difference. It's more about individual frame characteristics and ultimately price. Search these forums for similar keywords and there are some good bits of info and advice.
Would a cheaper bike dull your motivation / enjoyment. Possibly. If it weighs 20kg or the fit is off perhaps. Having said that most current mainstream brands are very good.
Seeing as you have some background and your not sure how much it will be used. I would buy second hand.
Something that retailed for around $2000 -> $3000, 1 -> 4 years old in the $700 -> $1400 price range.
New go for high end "sport models" around $1400 -> $1800. aka Tiagra/105. I prefer my alloy over my carbon. Similar weight, more durable.
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby The Walrus » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:02 pm
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Flanders-Fli ... 2ebc26ab33
http://www.driftbikes.bikeit.com.au/bic ... /100378658
Here are a few options
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby open roader » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:59 pm
I agree strongly with this statement.gururug wrote:It's more about individual frame characteristics and ultimately price.
My experience works boths ways - started on an inexpensive alloy framed roadie, disliked the weighty nature of my alloy bike so I opted for a racy carbon bike which was heaps lighter and more responsive etc but only a fraction more comfortable to ride over 40km+ and ultimately just as fun to ride as the original alloy heavyweight.
Since then I've ridden a pair of carbon framed bikes (one off 'test' rides) that are more harsher a ride than my original alloy framed bike which was something I thought not possible I have since sold the racy carbon frame for a more comfortable one. My current carbon framed bike is a tad heavier than the racy one but streets ahead in comfort which makes it more fun for me as I value comfort very highly to maintain my enjoyment of road riding.
Coming from an all MTB background just about any roadie is going to feel more responsive to you on bitumen than any light weight tricked up MTB will. If you want to withold splurging on a u-beaut ultra light carbon framed bike for the present and you have sufficient mechanical know how to spot a reasonable condition bike which doesn't weigh a ton, then why not purchase something cheaply which will not drop a swag of $$$ if you lose interest in the whole road bike thing. Then if you become hyper enthused you have less of a liability to offload if you really want that uber light weight carbon framed go fast machine.
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby Mulger bill » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:11 pm
Advise salesperson your budget is $1600 (Haggling room)
Ask to test everything close to your actual budget. Ignore names, materials, groupsets, everything. Just ride.
Go home and have a quiet reflect, chances are one or two of them will stick in your mind. This is your shortlist.
Retest the shortlist, go home and think again. One bike should be starting to stand out in your mind by now...
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby AndrewBurns » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:24 pm
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby The Walrus » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:42 am
I've been offered a 2008 Avanti Cadent 2.0. for $1300
Full carbon fibre frame and carbon fibre forks with Shimano 105 gearing throughout and Shimano WH-R500 wheelset...
Appears to be very well looked after and has less than 5000 k's on it...good, bad or ordinary deal?
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby Mapomatic » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:05 pm
Ordinary.The Walrus wrote:...good, bad or ordinary deal?
Carbon will offset upgraditis, at least for a few months.. It will also be more comfortable to ride, help with some longer training rides that will improve your mtbing.
I agree that you probably shouldnt spend a huge amount of money, many a mtber has had a go on the roadies only to lose interest. I'd suggest checking out mtb forums to find a good, cheap underused roadie.
http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthr ... t-%28ML%29
http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthr ... ite-2-2011
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby Thunderthighs » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:06 pm
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby number21 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:05 pm
From there, with a budget of $1500-1800 I decided to go for an alloy frame with 105 or above. Another thing was that I wanted something I liked to look at, otherwise I knew I'd be wanting to upgrade sooner. In the end came out with an ex floor stock Merida fitted with a combo of Ultegra/105 running gear. Since it was their second from the top alloy frame the graphics were pretty decent compared to the Malvern Star and Cells I was also considering.
The Cell I was looking at was cheaper and carbon but just wasn't feeling it, for whatever reason.
2.5 years on still happy with it, plus passing carbon frames on the road is a good way to get over the envy!
Would strongly consider another alloy frame whenever I do/can upgrade. Cannondales look nice...
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby sogood » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:55 pm
Good protocol!Mulger bill wrote:Enter LBS with say, $2000 budget.
Advise salesperson your budget is $1600 (Haggling room)
Ask to test everything close to your actual budget. Ignore names, materials, groupsets, everything. Just ride.
Go home and have a quiet reflect, chances are one or two of them will stick in your mind. This is your shortlist.
Retest the shortlist, go home and think again. One bike should be starting to stand out in your mind by now...
The other thing to be said is to not go for the cheapest or most expensive of a particular category of product ie. Don't buy the cheapest Alloy or CF bike, nor the most expensive within that two material. Some may argue but middle of the road will get good value.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby Nobody » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:22 pm
Agree.sogood wrote:Don't buy the cheapest Alloy or CF bike, nor the most expensive within that two material. Some may argue but middle of the road will get good value.
Yes I know, it's strange. But it does happen occasionally.
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby Chris249 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:05 pm
Go with a cheapish alloy frame. That gives you more spare cash when you decide to get into Time Trial bikes for real performance!
The limiting factor for riding is almost always the rider not the bike. And as has already been mentioned, beating expensive bikes on a cheapie is a much cheaper way to have fun than owning a plush bike.
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby brawlo » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:24 pm
As for alloy vs carbon, as mentioned before, alloy is not just stiffer than carbon. There's lots of other factors at play. The frame design will also play a part in what you want as well. If you want something to use for short high intensity training, then that will need to be a different design than something for ticking over the k's. Have a long think about what you plan to do with the road bike before you jump.
If you're only doing fitness and not racing, go with some 25mm tyres and that will make all the difference whichever frame you end up with.
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby The Walrus » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:28 pm
I can get a CF bike for $1500 compared to an alloy bike for $2200! The CF is obviously entry level with Tiagra group set and the alloy bike is a Bianchi with Ultegra group set and looks devine...between those prices there are quite a few options!
There's a few CF bikes with 105 groupset on offer. A Felt F5, Orbea Onix and a Fuji...Cannondale also make an alloy bike with 105 groupset for about $1600 so it seems that there's plenty/too much choice!
I thought the benefit of CF was weight and what really interests me is that some of the alloy bikes are only 2 or 3 kilos heavier than some CF...given that I'm 90 kilos thats not a big difference! But I'm starting to think that ride quality is a lot to do with it and your wheel set can make all teh difference...maybe a mid to top alloy bike with 105 + and a quality set of wheels?
Second hand is too much of a minefield and I need to test ride it first....So with all that I'm going to do what I did when I got the MTB, let the road test decide for me!
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby AndrewBurns » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:57 pm
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby Ozkaban » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:10 am
Ultimately, the best bike is the one you love riding. I agree with the advice to go and try out a few in the price range and see what you enjoy. A lot of bikes have a mix of carbon and alloy anyway so the distinction isn't all that clear cut.
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby The Walrus » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:36 pm
Giant Defy Composite - GS Ultegra $2000
Felt F5 - GS 105 $2000
Fuji 105 – GS 105 $2000
Avanti Cadent 2 – GS 105 $2300
Scott CR1 0 GS – Tiagra $2300
Orbea Onix - GS 105 $2000
ALLOY
Bianchi Impulso – GS Ultegra $2200
Cannondale Synapse 5 - GS 105 $1600
Already tested
Specialized Roubaix – GS Tiagra $2300
Avanti Cadent 1 – GS Tiagra $1500
The Avanti was pretty good for the price and I was pleasantly surprised by the Tiagra groupset...maybe coming from a MTB I dont expect too much! The Specialized felt very nice...
Avanti/Scott dealer said the Avanti frame in that price range was better than the Scott's! He didnt have the Cadent 2 to try, which is basically another $800 to have 105!
The Fuji/Bianchi & Giant dealer dont allow bike tests, so that leaves the Felt, Orbea and the wild card Cannondale alloy to try tomorrow!
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby gururug » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:10 pm
Imagine a car dealer that didn't allow test drives. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. I'd be finding another dealer if possible and emailing the companies to let them know how crap that is.The Walrus wrote:The Fuji/Bianchi & Giant dealer dont allow bike tests
Good to see your getting closer. Now to only narrow to 2 or 3 and let the bargaining begin.
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby Mulger bill » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:31 pm
That's OK, in the circumstances you should respect their decision and show it by not allowing them to put a hand in your pocket.The Walrus wrote:The Fuji/Bianchi & Giant dealer dont allow bike tests
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby Sydguy » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:37 pm
There is carbon for all budgets
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby Nobody » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:06 pm
An over-simplification. Depends how the frame is designed. If it's very comfortable, I wouldn't expect it to be overly stiff.Sydguy wrote:Carbon hands down. The prices are lower than ever before and the comfort is fantastic compared to an alloy frame.
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby The Walrus » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:36 pm
I try to live by the saying...let the ride decide!
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby Mulger bill » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:52 pm
Shaun
London Boy 29/12/2011
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Re: Alloy versus Carbon for newbie road rider?
Postby The Walrus » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:07 pm
The Felt F5 - Excuse the pun but it felt !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !!...it was like trying to wear a pair of gloves on your feet, not happening.
The Cannondale Synapse 5 - Very nice indeed and weight wise it didn't seem much different to the Roubaix or Cadent. 105 didn't seem any better or worse than Tiagra, but maybe that's just my ignorance. The down side is I wasn't mad in the colour design (shallow I know but...)
Visited to the Fuji dealer that wont allow test rides and he tried to sell me the alloy Bianchi Impulso as a bike I'd keep for years. $600 more than the Cannondale with Ultegra and looks great but maybe over kill for my needs...
Spent time checking out the specs of the Roubaix and the Cadent, its hard to see that much difference apart from $800. There must be some difference in the frame and the Cadent is an entry level CF which I said I wanted to avoid, but at this stage it seems like a good option. The Cadent 2 is a massive $800 more for better wheels and 105!
I'm seriously considering just getting some slicks, clip-less pedals and shoes for the 29er and rethinking it all!
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