SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GRANGE

SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GRANGE

Postby jap-sai » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:54 pm

Just curious if anyone has ever had a problem riding through this particular roundabout (Days Road / Kedron Brook Road, Grange)?

I'm only relatively new to cycling, but only 2 weeks after getting my first road bike, I ended up having a nasty collision with a car going through this roundabout. Drivers excuse was 'sorry I didn't see you mate', luckily I escaped without serious injury, but could well have been alot worse. Got a nasty gash middle of my left leg around the shin area, aswell as a grazed left hand & bruised left wrist from cushioning the fall. It happened around midday on a monday (very sunny day), I was heading up Kedron Brook Road & turning right onto Days Road, when I got the shock of my life when glancing to my left & seeing a car flying towards me, I took the roundabout with a decent amount of speed whilst holding out my right hand indicating but obviously the driver was not paying too much attention &/or thinking he could sneak through before me, I hit the drivers side of his car around the back door area.

Anyway, a scary, horrible thing to happen, but I have certainly learnt a valuable lesson from it. Looking back (happened a few weeks ago now), I was definetly too confident & too naive about cycling on the roads as I am relatively new to cycling. I will be staying well clear from busy roundabouts for some time or until I regain my confidence again. Only wish I had been wearing a helmet cam, so I could have taken some action against the young, male driver of the vechicle.
Would be interested to hear if anyong else has had any similar problems with this roundabout...
Last edited by jap-sai on Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by BNA » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:12 pm

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SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GRANGE

Postby Max » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:12 pm

I've had a couple near misses at this intersection. For me, the issue is when turning right from Kedron Brook rd onto Days rd. You don't get a clear enough view of Days Rd (right hand side). Traffic entering the roundabout there approaches quickly and if you don't get your timing right, you can end up in trouble. If there's enough traffic entering the roundabout from the left hand side, I just wait for it to go around, thereby preventing traffic entering from the right. That gives me a decent buffer and I can then go through.

I've had one instance of being cut off whilst on that roundabout. But I had a pretty good idea he was going to do it and was ready to brake/swerve. I make a point of giving traffic on the left hand side the "dirty eyeball". My unspoken message is "I know what you're thinking, so don't even try it". Most don't.

I'm glad you're ok. :)

Max


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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby ekib » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:41 pm

jap-sai,

glad you are ok and recovered from the SMIDSY.
I ride through this roundabout 2-3 times per week. I ride it exactly as Max does. Generally go slow into the roundabout, watching carefully the car on the left. Always assume that they may not see you!

As a general question, how should we as cyclists deal with "minor" collisions with motorists?
Should we be videoing every ride?
Should every incident be referred to the police?

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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby trailgumby » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:46 pm

With the gash, that's an injury and incidents involving an injury require police to be present at the scene under most if not all State jurisdictions.

Dd you call the police? SMIDSY is an admission of failing to keep a proper lookout.
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby PawPaw » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:50 pm

Yes it is a busy and dangerous roundabout....arguably more so outside of peak hour when average speed is higher.
My view is to dominate the lane when turning right into Days Rd, and be 100% sure cars approaching the roundabout are slowing appropriately to GIVE you right of way. Don't CLAIM right of way, expecting that after the fact, drivers see you and agree that you have it.

Meanwhile, google what % of Australian adults have vision problems, let alone what % know the overriding rule relating to roundabout use.
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby Oxford » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:07 pm

I changed my route to avoid that roundabout when I was cycle commuting. KB Road and the Days Rd roundabout are probably close to the worse sections of the route I used to ride. the worse section did eventually claim me, but it was unavoidable or the alternatives were as bad.

definitely report it, with an injury it is a requirement and the driver needs to know SMIDSY is not good enough.

Ekib, I eventually resorted to videoing all of my commuting for my own peace of mind. I'm glad I did, as my last cycle commute which was my accident, the recording provided me with plenty of information to first of all refute the driver's (and independent witness') version of events (with facts, not my opinion of what happened). it has also provided me with good evidence so the insurance company cannot use he said/she said arguments which could go against me based on the aforementioned refuted versions of events.
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby jap-sai » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:22 pm

trailgumby wrote:With the gash, that's an injury and incidents involving an injury require police to be present at the scene under most if not all State jurisdictions.

Dd you call the police? SMIDSY is an admission of failing to keep a proper lookout.

I wasn't aware of that jurisdiction. It happened so quickly, the driver pulled over & his first words were SMIDSY, after picking my bike up of the ground i felt fine (just shaken), so I just asked him,, 'did you not see me' , 'I was indicating', I was really angry, so I just gave him a nasty look of [hope you feel really guilty] & I finally said in a slightly sarcastic manner 'i'm alright, so no harm done'. After he took of & I had to get my chain back on as it had come off, I then noticed the gash on my shin was quite swollen (sticking out about a cm or so), initial thoughts were, I better get that checked out right away, but by the time I got home the swelling had subsided, luckily as if there was a problem, I had no details of who had hit me.
lesson learned.
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby sumgy » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:29 pm

Not getting into the video discussion but I hope that you have lodged a report with the police.
Your next step is to contact a solicitor (PM me if you want the name of one).
You also need to go over all of your gear and list the damage.
The driver's insurance company will need to replace all damaged items (yes, even if they are not a write off you are entitled to have them replaced).
If you were on a carbon fibre bike, do NOT ride it again.
It needs to be replaced.
Do NOT accept the suggestion by the insurance company that it could maybe be repaired either.
I took the stance with them that I would not accept this unless they provided a written guarantee that it would not fail and that if it did they would meet my costs.
Trust me, I have just been through it and had my frame, fork, seatpost, saddle, bar tape and tyres all replaced by the driver's insurer.

Just read your latest post.
Ignore what i have said.
You have screwed yourself.
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby PawPaw » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:40 pm

Incidentally, the overriding rule of roundabout use is...."to slow down to avoid collisions".
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby jap-sai » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:55 am

Thanks for replys & advice, interesting to know that this roundabout is too be approached with caution, if I ever get the courage to do so again...!
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby sumgy » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:10 am

jap-sai wrote:Thanks for replys & advice, interesting to know that this roundabout is too be approached with caution, if I ever get the courage to do so again...!


Sorry jap-sai.
It is not just this roundabout.
ALL roundabouts should be approached with caution.
Actually IMO ALL intersections should be approached with caution and at all times while you are riding you should NEVER assume that you have been seen or that the driver will stop/giveway to you.
Also you need to brush up on the rules as it seems from your post that you are a little unsure about what you should be doing and what should happen in the event that you do have an accident.
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby jap-sai » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:23 am

sumgy,

Oh yeah, I totally understand that, i am ever so cautious now, since the incident. I watched plenty of youtube videos of cyclists wearing head-cams & pointing out all the incidents that they encounter during there commutes, so I'm of the understanding now of how things are for cyclists...
Also next time, if there is a next time, I will make sure to contact the police & everything like that.
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby Sydguy » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:33 am

(AT) Jap-sai - happens very often. I've had people not see me and one who saw me but believed cars had right of way over bicycles.

All three instances I still marvel that I was not hit, two of them were so close that I still can't work out how I cleared the bonnet, I'd unclipped and was ready for some flying through the air.

First time down to being a beginner, second time I was a bit unwell and not thinking the third time the numpty acknowledged me but thought cars went first.

Hope you jump back on the bike and don't let it play on your mind too much. I would report it to the Police, but either way if could of been a LOT worse.

Best of luck,
JM
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby jap-sai » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:11 am

I have found this guy (from London) CycleGaz: http://www.youtube.com/user/CycleGaz?feature=watch really useful, he records all his commutes & uploads any incidents he has. He names & shames any drivers which disrespect cyclists or the general road rules, & he definetly isn't afraid of letting them know what they have done wrong. Well worth watching some of his videos. He also has another channel called 'Silly cyclists', in which he points out cyclists who break the road rules & do stupid things.
So he dwells on both sides to give a good perspective on it.
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby beauyboy » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:40 pm

I have to say I agree with the other guys. Approach every roundabout with the through a car may not giveway to you and be prepared to pullup while on the roundabout. I have also been hit on a roundabout with the SMIDSY excuse so now I watch cars like a hawk and being prepared to pull up has saved me from going over the bonnet a couple of times now.

I hope your wounds heal quickly and while you may not feel like it. GET BACK ON THE HORSE. Ride through that round about that you got hit on. You have to break that fear.

Also have you complainted to council about that roundabout? They may be able to do something in which vehicles have to slow down a bit more. Also contact your local counciller as they may help in pushing the issue (yes I know council elections are a month away.

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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby jap-sai » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:16 pm

beauyboy wrote:I have to say I agree with the other guys. Approach every roundabout with the through a car may not giveway to you and be prepared to pullup while on the roundabout. I have also been hit on a roundabout with the SMIDSY excuse so now I watch cars like a hawk and being prepared to pull up has saved me from going over the bonnet a couple of times now.

I hope your wounds heal quickly and while you may not feel like it. GET BACK ON THE HORSE. Ride through that round about that you got hit on. You have to break that fear.

Also have you complainted to council about that roundabout? They may be able to do something in which vehicles have to slow down a bit more. Also contact your local counciller as they may help in pushing the issue (yes I know council elections are a month away.

Donald

Thanks for the advice.
Eventually I will use the roundabout again when the confidence comes back.!
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby Comedian » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:03 pm

I'm very sorry to hear mate. I ride this round about every commute and it's a wild one. Expect everyone to give way to you but don't expect them to if you know what I mean. I find myself surprised when someone does give way. That makes most trips a pleasure and no surprise when they don't.

I personally don't believe SMIDSY is real - it's just the best people can come up with at short notice after they have run you over. If it ever happens to me and there is so much as a scratch on me I'll be dialling the cops (if I'm with it :o ) . :o

It's a terrible shame this has happened to you just after you've started commuting. If you want message me and I'm happy to meet you and give you some tips/talk about alternate routes around that area. :)
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby jap-sai » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:43 am

Thanks 'Comedian',

yep its a wild roundabout. thanks for the offer, if I find myself in need of some advice I'll be in touch!!!
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby Oxford » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:33 pm

I found using an AirZound at that roundabout (and of course others) very helpful. Most vehicles stop immediately as they figure there's a big vehicle they didn't see. The look on their faces is priceless when they realise they have just given way (as they should be doing) to a bicycle. :mrgreen:
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby jap-sai » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:17 pm

Ok, so yesterday I went through the roundabout, no problems, traffic was quiet, one car gave way to me, I made good eye contact with the driver & wasn't a problem. I also went through it again today, again traffic was quite, so was nice & easy. I'll continue to use it now, probably just avoid it during peak hour. I've realised that making good eye contact is really reassuring & gives me alot more confidence. I was way too blasé in the beginning, being a newbie to communting, thinking cars really looked out for cyclists. Anyways great to have my confidence back.!!!!
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby Comedian » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:48 pm

jap-sai wrote:Ok, so yesterday I went through the roundabout, no problems, traffic was quiet, one car gave way to me, I made good eye contact with the driver & wasn't a problem. I also went through it again today, again traffic was quite, so was nice & easy. I'll continue to use it now, probably just avoid it during peak hour. I've realised that making good eye contact is really reassuring & gives me alot more confidence. I was way too blasé in the beginning, being a newbie to communting, thinking cars really looked out for cyclists. Anyways great to have my confidence back.!!!!


Great news mate. Generally most slow speed traffic is OK as long as you look out for yourself first and don't rely on people giving way as they should.

It annoys me - but I don't care as I know driving is making them fat, poor, and most likely very bad for their health. Their loss.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby jap-sai » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:36 pm

Comedian wrote:
jap-sai wrote:Ok, so yesterday I went through the roundabout, no problems, traffic was quiet, one car gave way to me, I made good eye contact with the driver & wasn't a problem. I also went through it again today, again traffic was quite, so was nice & easy. I'll continue to use it now, probably just avoid it during peak hour. I've realised that making good eye contact is really reassuring & gives me alot more confidence. I was way too blasé in the beginning, being a newbie to communting, thinking cars really looked out for cyclists. Anyways great to have my confidence back.!!!!


Great news mate. Generally most slow speed traffic is OK as long as you look out for yourself first and don't rely on people giving way as they should.

It annoys me - but I don't care as I know driving is making them fat, poor, and most likely very bad for their health. Their loss.


Thanks Comedian
:lol: yes very true.!
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby PawPaw » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:48 pm

DON'T just rely on eye contact. People can appear to be looking at you, as if to acknowledge your presence, and the need to give way.....
But many cyclists including me have had drivers and pedestrians not follow APPARENT eye contact with appropriate action.

By all means use eye contact as one indicator of a driver's intent, but confirm also the vehicle is slowing appropriately, FOR YOU.
Further, don't get caught out by another vehicle or cyclist on the outside of the one you are eyeballing, who doesn't give way.

I cannot emphasize enough, that the road rules will NOT keep you safe.
Your own vigilance, indeed hypervigilance is paramount.
There are too many gotchas when on a bike.

I'd suggest you spend some time shadowing other commuters, who are not in a hurry, and ride within the road rules.
Motorists are more likely to see two of you than one.
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Re: SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GR

Postby sumgy » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:25 pm

PawPaw wrote:I cannot emphasize enough, that the road rules will NOT keep you safe.
Your own vigilance, indeed hypervigilance is paramount.


Yep,
Infinity times agreement with this.
YOU are the only person who will keep YOU safe out there.
No amount of Air Zounds or video camera's will do it.
Watch the cars, watch every side street, watch every pedestrian and when you think that they are aware of you, back off a bit in case they aren't.
My last crash had me thinking that the driver had seen me.
They did EVERYTHING to indicate that they had.
Right up until they accelerated through the Give Way sign and T-boned me.
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SMIDSY Collision Days Rd/Kedron Brook Road Roundabout GRANGE

Postby RonK » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:05 pm

sumgy wrote:YOU are the only person who will keep YOU safe out there.
No amount of Air Zounds or video camera's will do it.
Watch the cars, watch every side street, watch every pedestrian and when you think that they are aware of you, back off a bit in case they aren't.

Yes, if you drive a car, or ride a moto in particular, you can take a defensive driving course. I would argue that many of the techniques taught at these courses are highly relevant to cyclists, but I can't recall ever seeing such a course offered for cyclists.


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