Workshop tales, trials and disasters.
Maintenance tips, techniques and myths.
Technical discussion, description and outright lies
Couple one of the above levers to an Alfine Di2 hub and I'd be as a happy as a pig in shite
You must have Tektro on the brain tonight.
Even more disc action - hints that there is now a push to get UCI approval .....
That article is good because it mentions all of the issues.
If the UCI approve discs for use in road races, it'll be interesting to see which teams (if any) are prepared to cop the necessary weight and time penalties in exchange for better braking... and how far they get.
I find it interesting with one of the catchcries for UCI not approving it is the additional support (neutral) during the race to cope with the additional disc brake combos (yes, will be an issue, but not a insurmountable one as quoted above), but there is NO mention at all when 11sp came out for Campagnolo, and when Shimano go 11sp, there will be no issue either.
So why is the disc one such a major issue ????
It won't be simple, but one solution is to get rid of some of the press cars (and avoid potential issues like the Hoogerland one) and photo motos and replace them with additional neutral service, perhaps even partly funded by those teams that want disc brakes.
Sounds like a solution to me .....
But maybe that's because I am biased towards discs
There won't be a weight penalty. They just won't have to add as much stuff to come up to 6.8Kg. The extra aero drag would be an issue. You might see them in the mountains some time in the distant future. SRAM wouldn't be applying to the UCI if they thought there was no chance of teams using them in the future.
Fortunately for me, what road racers use has little to do with what I'll be using on the road.
A couple of more TRP Hywire articles
Hywire (AT) Bike Rumour
Hywire (AT) Road.cc
Here are some pics of the guts of the TRP shifter
Interesting lever shape
In my search for a better disc brake for our Tandem, I stumbled across the Bengal MB700T which I mentioned in an earlier post.
Most of the top tandem riders / suppliers seem to be offering this brake as their top model upgrade item. There is good reviews at the below blog by this guy who is a very well respected tandem rider and writer:
If you search Bengal in his blog they are mentioned in a few articles that he has written.
These were hard to find and I've had to buy 12x sets of them to meet minimum order quantities with the factory, which means I have 11 sets for sale going cheap. If they sell well, I will get more but at this point consider it a once off opportunity to secure a fairly rare set of mechanical disc brakes for a pretty low price. The tandem places are offering the Bengal MB700T as a $50 UPGRADE from the Avid BB7. If you compare the BB7 pricing then I think you'll agree that the price is good.
They are in transit to me and should be ready for shipping after Easter. I won't know whats in the box until they get here but I'm expecting 2x calipers and 2x 160mm rotors.
are replacement pads as rare as the callipers?
Santa Cruz Blur TRc XTR
Volagi Liscio Ultegra
Considering BB7s are ~$79 each at CRC, $119 a pair is a good price.
Good point by Crittski. Did your supplier give you any information on price and availability of replacement pads?
Can I assume you are going to use the 203mm disc with the Bengal caliper on your tandem? I'll be interested to see how your next big tandem ride goes.
Not sure on repacelment pads, will cross that bridge when someone is close to needing some. I dare say once you can pop the pads out and take them to an LBS they should be able to match them up with something off the shelf, I highly doubt they would be a proprietary design.
If that isn't the case, I have a good factory connection now and I'll be able to order the standard ones in a small quantity easily enough.
Looks like they come with a good pad as standard so I won't be looking for pads for a little while
To answer Nobody - yes I'm planning to run them with a 203mm front rotor. I have BB7's in the box at home unopened which I'll probably move onto someone else since the Bengal's appear to be a better thing. I'm sticking to the 160mm rotor on the rear as I don't have enough chainstay clearance to go bigger on the back without serious modifications.
Just had my first experience with disc brakes in torrential rain yesterday on my new CX commuter, bloody brilliant. I knew they would be better in the rain than the v-brakes on my old bike, but didn't realise just how much better. When people say "it's the same as in the dry", it turns out they aren't kidding.
Now I'm just waiting for the BB5 pads to wear down, so I have an excuse to upgrade the BB7s (or similar). Don't really care if they stop better, I just want something with a lot more pad material and the ability to adjust both inboard and outboard pads easily. Judging by how tiny the pads are on the BB5s, I doubt I'll be waiting too long.
I see (perhaps slowly) that Surly now has an LHT model with disc brakes (cable) http://surlybikes.com/bikes/disc_trucker .
The Bengal MB700T uses the same pads as the Hayes MX-2, MX-3, MX-4 & Sole which can be found very easily.
Bengal part # PH02 http://www.bengalperformance.com.tw/products_c_038554.html?ino=36
Hayes part # PH02 http://www.bengalperformance.com.tw/products_c_03e394.html?ino=34
Are the inboard and outboard pads adjustable on the Bengal? Hanging out for hydraulics to the lever, but its great to see another option in the market.
Santa Cruz Blur TRc XTR
Volagi Liscio Ultegra
Been away on holidays, but back on deck now
So what is it about the bengal brakes that makes them better ? Better feel, pull ratio, stiffer bodies ?
What is the size of the pads compared to the BB7 ?
Only the inboard.
About the same size as BB5 pads.
The Hayes CX5 road/cx mechanical disc brake mightn't have the 'melting red plastic adjusting wheel' problem the Avids are having on tandems as the inner pad on it has to be adjusted with a 5mm allen key.
The Bengal is similar looking to the Hayes CX5
Promax also makes a road mechanical disc brake too, the DSK-720RA
Hmmm not so sure about that. About four or five years ago these Bengal things could be found on most bike shop shelves( and sat, and sat, and...).
Not sure about the use with drop bar levers, most off the rack drop bar bikes spec bb5s and bb7s for a reason.
I have bengal disc brakes on a second hand cheap apollo. Adjustable pads on both inboard and outboard I think. Clearly not the same model discussed here, as the bike is 400 new.
I had a read through the Bengal blog as linked by jack above, and note that with the issues noted with the Avid's were minor (except losing the pad, but that was the next day, not on the actual descent), and the only ones that DIDN'T have an issue were
What size discs were the others using ? It is not mentioned anywhere.
So my original question (refined a bit), is
"What feature does the Bengal caliper have over the Avids that makes them better (when comparing like for like - i.e same disc size) ? "
It seems that the inner adjusting knob is the only thing that is an issue on a TANDEM, going down Mt Ventoux. So a single rider on a roadie with discs should not have an issue at all ....
Ande now Ribble has the Ultegra Di2 (full 13 piece set) for $1,515
And given the lever set goes for US$480 for a pir, and just an Upgrade set (no cranks, cassette etc) is typically US$1,400 on fleabay, the Ribble price is a bargain
Time to buy a set, sell the levers & calipers and wait for a Hywire or Formula set to be released ....
The major difference I see between the Bengal and the Avid is the lack of plastic. The bengals are all metal, nothing to melt and fail. The pad adjustor is an allen key. The standard pads are Non-asbestos semi metallic compound which I think will be an upgrade on what comes standard with the Avid's.
Loosing a pad is a SERIOUS problem, especially if it falls out on a decent. Some of the tandem riders using the Avid's are carrying spare adjustor knobs in their saddle bags.
My stock arrived today, they look great, well made, the included disks, adaptors and bolts all appear to be excellent quality. Here is a picture of whats in the box, I have some stock of both white and black calipers.
The included Rotor's are 160mm. Nothing to stop you running a different adaptor and a bigger rotor if you have clearance for it (and require the bigger rotor), I think the 160mm should be fine for all but the most kamakazi decenders (on a single bike) - for a tandem I'm looking for a bigger rotor for the front and plan to run a 203mm as long as it fits.
Avid's are pretty easy to get a hold of which could be the reason you see more of them, the high-end tandem builders offer the Bengal as an upgrade on the Avid's and no-one has been running road disc's longer than the tandem guys so they should know. Also if these will pull up a tandem then you've got pleanty of head room running them on a single.
This model is designed to use with STI levers, link to the product is here.
Based on your theory that cheap bikes 5 years ago had a bengal part on them the bikes were rubbish, then shimano must be junk as well because no doubt there would have been a couple of shimano components on them??
Too true re a serious issue, but in the blog it was reported as falling out on the next day (after the descent). Very little info on a potentially big problem. Would be interesting to know what the real cause was ?
If the Bengal pad is non-asbestos semi-metallic, what is the stock Avid one ?
Stock Avid BB7 pads are Metal Sintered / Sintered Metallic .
Some couple of descriptions of pad types.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users