29 vs 26
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29 vs 26
Postby paul33 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:30 am
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby mitzikatzi » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:12 am
or
Circumference
A fast rider on a 26er will beat a slow rider on a 29er and vise versa.
Same rider different bikes. Depends on the terrain or the quality of the bike.
With a 29er you use a rear sprocket with 1 or 2 teeth bigger (use the gear calculator) than with a 26 inch bike for the same gearing.
ratio disscussion in this thread
Building a bike around a Niner One frame
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby trailgumby » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:28 am
Gearing and Speed
With the bigger wheel size you'd just select a different gear, until you run out of gears at the low end. 29er wheels are roughly 11% bigger, which equates more or less to the difference between a 34T granny gear and 30T second gear on a 9-speed cassette. So unless you really need that granny gear (I did on the weekend) then there's no "conversion" to be done for speed on wheel size. Bigger wheel does not mean faster necessarily: read on!
So what difference does a bigger wheel make?
29ers lose less energy over rough terrain than the smaller wheels. This is due to the bigger hoops meaning you don't drop as far into the ruts in choppy surfaces and then waste energy coming back up. The reduced angle of attack over bumps means less of your kinetic energy is spent moving your mass up and down and it is instead preserved in forward motion. If you slip on a loose surface say while pedalling uphill out of the saddle, I've found they tend to regain traction more often.
However, on smooth terrain the momentum conservation advantage is neutralised, and if the track gets tight and twisty necessitating you getting on the brakes a lot to negotiate corners, the extra rotating mass in the big hoops and tyres becomes a disadvantage as you have to accelerate back up to cruising speed. Further, the taller front end usually means a higher centre of gravity, which slows steering response and requires more body english from the rider - even if you don't have to get on the brakes.
Conclusion
So whether a 29er is faster is terrain specific. After seeing my mate shave nearly 10 minutes off his best lap time by swapping to a 26er for his last lap of the Mont 24hr a couple of weekends ago, my views are now more fluid than they were and I'm questioning whether my next bike will still be a 29er.
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby Mugglechops » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:03 pm
trailgumby wrote: Conclusion
So whether a 29er is faster is terrain specific. After seeing my mate shave nearly 10 minutes off his best lap time by swapping to a 26er for his last lap of the Mont 24hr a couple of weekends ago, my views are now more fluid than they were and I'm questioning whether my next bike will still be a 29er.
How many people were on the track when he did his last lap. Two of my mates both shaved 5-6 minutes off their last laps at the Mont. One was on a 29er the other a 26er. From my experience at the Mont since 2003 the number of people on track holding you up has a far greater impact than what wheel size you are riding.
I think somwhere on the net there is a comparison with power meters that shows the 26er uses less power for the same speed. Therefore it should be faster. In saying that I still love my HT 29er and my 6in Dually 26er. I just need to start riding the 29er more like a hardtail and not like a dually to go faster.
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby paul33 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:25 pm
Thanks
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby RonK » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:47 pm
Don't see how it makes any difference.paul33 wrote:The reason I asked this question is that I ride with other riders of the same abillity, but they always seem to just keep moving ahead now . A 11% difference between the size of the wheels is a bloody good excuse for me and so I can order a new 29 er with confidence
Thanks
44x13T 54 - 599 (26 x 2.0) at 90 rpm = 38.3 kph
and
44x13T 50 - 622 (29 x 2.0) at 90 rpm = 41.5 kph
but
44x12T 54 - 599 (26 x 2.0) at 90 rpm = 41.5 kph
So change gear!
Buying a 29er will not make you faster.
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby toolonglegs » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:14 pm
11%?... no.
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby Mulger bill » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:35 pm
Whether that's a disadvantage or not would depend on the trails of course...
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby trailgumby » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:51 pm
Yes, and yes.Mulger bill wrote:Wouldn't the greater rotating mass make a 29er slower to accelerate?
Whether that's a disadvantage or not would depend on the trails of course...
Ah, yes. 650B.toolonglegs wrote:29'er will be quicker on certain terrain compared to 26'er... always going to be a compromise... hence some pro riders with big budgets are experimenting with the 27.5'ers.
11%?... no.
From what I hear it's the riders who are on the smaller side who are going for this option, because of the difficulties in getting their position on the bike sorted to their liking with a 29er. Usually it's because the bars are too high compared to the seat. From my limited experience with a 29er this made me feel like I was trying to negotiate a technical trail on clown stilts. Lowering the bars made a huge difference.
Maybe someone should bring out upside-down riser bars for 29ers?
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby mitzikatzi » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:05 pm
Just mount your current "riser" bars upside down?trailgumby wrote:...snip...
Maybe someone should bring out upside-down riser bars for 29ers?
What Emily has to do to make a 29er "fit". here sometimes a 650c or a 26er makes more sense.
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby trailgumby » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:15 pm
Ends where the grips are still need to be angled up to be wrist-friendly.mitzikatzi wrote:Just mount your current "riser" bars upside down?trailgumby wrote:...snip...
Maybe someone should bring out upside-down riser bars for 29ers?
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby Mulger bill » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:18 pm
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby mitzikatzi » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:31 pm
I should have known it was not that simple. I thought I have read of short people mounting bars upside down to make 29ers fit maybe it was just the stem.trailgumby wrote:Ends where the grips are still need to be angled up to be wrist-friendly.mitzikatzi wrote:Just mount your current "riser" bars upside down?trailgumby wrote:...snip...
Maybe someone should bring out upside-down riser bars for 29ers?
There are a couple of 650s dual suspension bikes. A big 650c thread on mtbr.
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby paul33 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:49 am
With this conversation I think I have 2 main problems 1. Falling into the corrigations will slow the wheels down and 2. like all cyclist not enough legs
Thanks for all your help
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby drubie » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:51 pm
Sounds like 29er country to me - bigger wheels = bigger holes you can roll over, no climbing means no worries about acceleration. If you only have room for a single MTB then I still think a 26er is more versatile - the 29ers to me feel just a bit too unwieldy in the sketchy/tight/jumpy stuff but I am a complete MTB gumby. Just after I finished building up a (smaller) blue Apollo 26er hardtail I was amazed at just how alive that bike was compared to my usual ride...and I liked it a lot. There's a lot to be said for smaller, more agile mountain bikes.paul33 wrote:1. Falling into the corrigations will slow the wheels down and 2. like all cyclist not enough legs
Thanks for all your help
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby trailgumby » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:33 pm
Some of the more gravity oriented guys in my area tend to opt for smaller frames deliberately for this reason, they're a lot easier and more nimble to handle on techy descents.drubie wrote:There's a lot to be said for smaller, more agile mountain bikes.
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby jules21 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:31 am
however, out at the You Yangs yesterday, i was really impressed with the 29er coming down black diamond runs over rocky descents - just ate them up, whereas i know my 26er (HT) would be trying to kill me. partly that's probably the dual suspension helping - but the big wheels certainly eat up rocks and other obstacles.
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby trailgumby » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:35 pm
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby lucifuge » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:44 am
Power output: To a large extent your power output will be static. So the gear ratio/cadence you have use on your 26er, will be different combo on your 29er, BUT on average your overall speed would be comparable.
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby Gordo » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:38 pm
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby Marx » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:14 pm
29ers are good for those who upgrade often, as it will fit in nicely when in 2013~14 the US brands trot out something new.
But please, Don’t hate me for my opinion.
A bike and a place to ride.
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Re: 29 vs 26
Postby antipodean » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:41 pm
Thats right, don't ask for an opinion on a bike from someone who actually owns one, instead ask someone who thinks they knowMarx wrote:29ers don’t. Just a fad. Don’t ask anyone who owns one because their opinion of their own bike over something someone else is riding would be obvious. They’re now preferred by taller riders because the compromise in frame geometry to fit the larger wheels don’t adversely affect handling as much in the larger frames as it does in the smaller frame sizes XS~M, but that’s like saying gonorrhoea is the best of all the sexually transmitted diseases.
29ers are good for those who upgrade often, as it will fit in nicely when in 2013~14 the US brands trot out something new.
But please, Don’t hate me for my opinion.
what they are talking about but clearly have no idea.
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