Race Speeds
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Race Speeds
Postby Retro man » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:25 am
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Re: Race Speeds
Postby iaintas » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:09 am
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Re: Race Speeds
Postby rogan » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:39 am
However speed can be worked out very easily. Put a motorbike 10 m behind the rider/breakaway and get an output of the motorbike speed. The bike is already there - it's the camera bike. I don't know why the TV doesn't do this - except that it could possibly assist the chasing teams (who will have someone watching the broadcast). There may be some convention or rule that the broadcaster does not show the breakaway's speed.
Average speed is very easy to work out - from the distance to go displayed on the TV screen. Eg. for the Boonenator, you could see how long it took him to get from 50 km to go to 40 km to go (or any other segment), from which the speed calculation is very easy.
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Race Speeds
Postby jamesn184 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:23 pm
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Re: Race Speeds
Postby simonr23 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:30 pm
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Re: Race Speeds
Postby Nikolai » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:48 pm
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Re: Race Speeds
Postby Nikolai » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:02 pm
UCI doesn't have much TV rights (thankfully). In road racing, they own TV rights for WC and races they have created recently such as Tour of Beijing.iaintas wrote:I imagine it has something to do with the television rights that the UCI currently have
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Re: Race Speeds
Postby Retro man » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:24 am
So what would be your guess as to how fast he was going to stay in front.
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Re: Race Speeds
Postby Nikolai » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:23 am
It depends where. There are a couple of false flats just before Roubaix but there were also places with tailwind where he was flying. They showed a couple of times what gear he was on (53x15-14) and judging by the cadence he was around 45 km/h (at that point). It may not sound like much but this is at the end of Paris-Roubaix after all. of course, according to Paul, he was probably doing 70 on asphalt and 65 on the cobbles. And every time there's a descent, they're doing 110.Retro man wrote:Ok
So what would be your guess as to how fast he was going to stay in front.
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Re: Race Speeds
Postby vander » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:32 am
I wish I could trust the sport.
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Re: Race Speeds
Postby rogan » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:48 pm
I don't agree vander. Just about any pro could do exactly that. I have a good mate in the UK who is plainly and avowedly an amateur who did 3.5 hours for a 100 mile (161 km) time trial last year. That's an average of 46 km/h, and he freely admits any common or garden pro would do much much better. Boonen is MUCH better than your average pro...vander wrote:45km/h by yourself in a not at all aero position for 55km is a lot. He wouldnt go too bad in a world champs time trial with that and he is yet to jump on a TT bike with the aero savings he would probably be looking at around 49km/h something a normal Boonen couldnt do.
Paris Roubaix only ascends 1600 m over the course of its ~260 km. I do more vertical in a 100 km ride around Sydney. Unlike the TTs in the grand tours these days, it's almost pancake flat. There are two tricks to it:
1. If you want to do a long break off the front a la Boonen (or Cancellara in past years) you need to get to the ~180 km mark without having crashed and feeling fresh. Rupert Guinness had an article in the SMH on this a few weekends ago - analysing Gerrans' win in the MSR, he noted that he went anaerobic only once in the first 140 km, but hit over 1000W 7 times in the last 20 minutes. The modern pro teams PROTECT their star riders and they do it VERY well. Getting back to Paris-Roubaix - Boonen had obviously had a relatively calm ride for the first half of the race. But he had another advantage, which is point 2...
2. The cobbles. It takes courage and tremendous bike handling skills to get to the cobbles at high speed and hold it. There are others who can do it - Cancellara, obviously, is one. When Boonen last won the race in '09 he was off the front with a group of 5 or 6. They were quality riders too - Hushovd, Van Sommeren, Flecha, Pozzato and Hoste. He simply rode them all off his wheel, by keeping a good speed into the cobbled sections - a speed which he had the skill level to handle, but the others did not. There were crashes all around him.
On Sunday, his own teammate (Terpstra) disappeared - I suggest Tom was just going faster on the cobbles than Terpstra dared to risk. Boonen is simply the best rider of rough cobbles in the pro ranks. Also note, the various bunches simply get carved to pieces every time they hit a tough section of cobbles. There is no advantage in being in a bunch on a bad section of cobbles, and no chance for the bunch to any take time off a solo rider who is riding strongly through that section. The tarmac between the cobbled sections is a different story of course.
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Re: Race Speeds
Postby vander » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:53 pm
http://www.tissottiming.com/
Look at the speeds at the world champs over a comparitive distance. Very few got up and over the 49km/h mark. Then look at Boonens bike with 25mm tires not very aero wheels at all. Add to that he has no skin suit no TT position and no aero helmet.
MSR was a walk in the park compared to this race. This was (I believe) the fastest ever P-R yet Boonen (who has never done it before) rides off the front of a bunch of amazing riders.
If someone that had showed this power before like Canc did it fair enough but for Boonen to do it, thats a big ask. If he came home even with a group of just 3 or 4 that would of been fine but to solo off the front for 55km and just keep growing your lead, well it makes me wonder. I want to see Boonens power data I think it would be massive, then comparing it to what he could do previously would be very interesting.
If you looked at Terpstra's face in the photo of him getting dropped it was not that he dared not go faster its that he couldnt keep up Boonen was too strong. I do want for him to have done it clean I am just very suspect about it all.
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Race Speeds
Postby toolonglegs » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:19 pm
Pozzato crashed and he was one of the few cobbles specialists in there.
I would also dare to say that being on your own on the cobbles with a tail wind would be quicker than following another rider.
As for Tom's power ... We know his 5 minute power is only a tiny bit less than Fabian's as he is often very close to the lead in a prologue... Often getting the leaders jersey in the first stage. At around 82-84kilos I am sure he could hold 400-450w for 1 hour after been hidden for the first 150 km's of which there are not many cobbles of note.
Ps... The BMC rider who posts on strava being Taylor Phinney... But his upload failed for roubaix ... He also never posts power details.
The only other rider is one of the Kings, he didn't finish.
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Re: Race Speeds
Postby rogan » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:02 pm
vander wrote:Thanks to adding to my point. Yes no climbing but there were a lot of cobbles. On which the riders slowed immensely seemed to be doing about 35km/h possibly less.
http://www.tissottiming.com/
Look at the speeds at the world champs over a comparitive distance. Very few got up and over the 49km/h mark. Then look at Boonens bike with 25mm tires not very aero wheels at all. Add to that he has no skin suit no TT position and no aero helmet.
MSR was a walk in the park compared to this race. This was (I believe) the fastest ever P-R yet Boonen (who has never done it before) rides off the front of a bunch of amazing riders.
If someone that had showed this power before like Canc did it fair enough but for Boonen to do it, thats a big ask. If he came home even with a group of just 3 or 4 that would of been fine but to solo off the front for 55km and just keep growing your lead, well it makes me wonder. I want to see Boonens power data I think it would be massive, then comparing it to what he could do previously would be very interesting.
If you looked at Terpstra's face in the photo of him getting dropped it was not that he dared not go faster its that he couldnt keep up Boonen was too strong. I do want for him to have done it clean I am just very suspect about it all.
The course profile for the 2011 WC Mens TT (45.7 km) is here:
http://www.limburg2012.nl/images/maps/e ... _trial.jpg
Not at all like the last 50 km of Paris-Roubaix.
http://www.letour.fr/2011/PRX/COURSE/us ... cours.html
A good aero position helps, but ALL top pro riders can ride at 46 km/h for an hour or so on the flat on a road bike.
It was not the fastest ever Paris-Roubaix, and Boonen is in any event a good TT'er on the flat. I've seen Hushovd do similar things, and a decade ago, Museeuw (who was also best known as a sprinter) won this race by 3 minutes on a solo breakaway. Third that day was none other than a 21 year old Tom Boonen, who rode solo after Museeuw for a lengthy period (before being caught by another rider in the closing kms).
The race suits people who can pump out good power for an hour or so with brilliant bike handling skills. Unlike most other races, carrying a few extra kilos over the bean shoots and wiry nuggets (that make up most of the pro peloton) is no disadvantage. And the bike handling skills of top sprinters is obvious.
Like on a long hill, sitting in a bunch is of little advantage in the last 50 km of P-R - but unlike a long hill, the riders who can exploit the conditions are the strong bike handlers, not mountain goats. If Contador or Schleck rode away from the pack in uphill conditions that suit them, no one would make particular note of it. What you have to realise about Paris-Roubaix is the course, the pave, creates similar bunch destroying properties as a steep long hill - but you have a different type of rider coming to the fore. It's not a simple cruise around some bumpy laneways of NE France.
I don't know if Boonen is clean. I don't think he is any dirtier than the bulk of the peloton. I think he is one of only a few top riders targetting this end of the season. With Gilbert and Hushovd out of form, and Cancellara injured, the only one who looked near as strong was Chavanel (who was unlucky to get a puncture and rides for Boonen's team anyway).
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