Tubeless ready ...but not ...? Schwalbe Racing Ralph, 29x2.1

PaulMoran · Postby **PaulMoran** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:10 am

Hi All,

Noticed on the side of my tyres last night that it says something to the effect of 'tubeless ready' - but I'm assuming this means it can take the "Tape sealant, valve and goo" route ....not really a 'true' Tubeless setup (with the rim) ??

Details on the Wheel setup:

Rims - Giant P-XC2 Performance 29er, eyeleted, double wall, alloy, 32H
Hubs Fr - Giant Tracker sealer cartridge 15QR | Rr: Giant Tracker cassette sealed cartridge 10sp 29’er disc
Spokes -DT 14/15G butted stainless steel
Tires - Schwalbe Racing Ralph, 29x2.1 Performance

Bike: XTC Composite 29er 0

cheers all!!!!!

m@ · Postby m@ » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:34 am

Correct - the tyres are tubeless ready, but the rims aren't. So you can go tubeless either with a conversion kit or tubeless compatible rims.

According to the Stans website, the Flow kit will fit these rims, unfortunately this kit is a bit harder to track down than the others.

A tubeless ready wheelset is about the only thing missing from the Giant 29er 0-level models IMO.

PaulMoran · Postby **PaulMoran** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:38 am

thanks Matt!

what are the upsides to converting over to tubeless in this manner, versus getting 'proper' rims ? and potential downsides ?

cheers!

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:43 pm

Just grab a stans ( or similar ) tubeless rim strip... And some sealant.
The only real difference is you may have a bit of trouble getting the tyre inflated on non tubeless specific rim. I use a co2 canister on the first inflation if I have this problem.
I have racing Ralph's on my bike ... Good all rounder tyre.

m@ · Postby m@ » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:57 pm

AFAICT I guess the main upside is significantly lower cost; a kit is possibly less secure than a tubeless specific rim but more a worry at road pressures I gather.

My plan is to use a conversion kit, then go tubeless when the stock wheels die or I can justfy a race-day wheelset. Probably have to pay off the bike first, though

PaulMoran · Postby **PaulMoran** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:58 pm

sweet, sounds good -

BTW - the graph in your sig that illustrates the Kays ppl have churned out - where and how does this gem come from ?

PaulMoran · Postby **PaulMoran** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:00 pm

yeah, my main reason for wanting to go toobless is to be done (or minimise) the dreaded flat tyre mid ride ....plus I have my first ever race coming up (the husky) that I am training for and dont want a flat to do me over come time for this one ...

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:13 pm

I ran the kit for a long time.... the sealant pretty much secures the strip in place after a ride or two.Yes they are cheaper than new wheels and the only real difference is a bit heavier wheel and bit harder on the initial inflate. Apart from that you just forget about them... and enjoy running pressures that would give you a pinch flat everytime with a tube

.

PaulMoran · Postby **PaulMoran** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:21 pm

Music to my ears -

Given the tube is goooone, and the sealant & tape are in ....what extra weight do u think it might be ? (ballpark)

thanks again

toolonglegs · Postby **toolonglegs** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:24 pm

PaulMoran wrote:Music to my ears -

Given the tube is goooone, and the sealant & tape are in ....what extra weight do u think it might be ? (ballpark)

thanks again

Depends on what tubes you ran before... we are only talking grams.

PaulMoran · Postby **PaulMoran** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:29 pm

Just stock OEMs ...bike is only 1 week old

All good - sure it wont cost me a world title or anything like that ....

trailgumby · Postby **trailgumby** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:53 pm

Apart from being a PITA to inflate without a compressor unless you use Bontrager rim strips, the main risk to be aware of with conversion kits is the increased likelihood of burping the tyre off the rim.

What this means is you need to be more conservative with how low you go on pressure. Below high 20's I would not be real comfortable on a set of converted rims, and I'd be wanting to keep the rear above 30.

Which presents an issue if you run Schwalbe's. They are sketchy if you run them above mid-20s on the front. I tend to run my 26x2.25 UST Nobby Nic at between 22 and 24psi for an 85kg male on a 130mm travel AM/Enduro bike with UST rims.

Maxxis only for me on converted rims.

PaulMoran · Postby **PaulMoran** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:33 am

trailgumby wrote:Apart from being a PITA to inflate without a compressor unless you use Bontrager rim strips, the main risk to be aware of with conversion kits is the increased likelihood of burping the tyre off the rim.

What this means is you need to be more conservative with how low you go on pressure. Below high 20's I would not be real comfortable on a set of converted rims, and I'd be wanting to keep the rear above 30.

Which presents an issue if you run Schwalbe's. They are sketchy if you run them above mid-20s on the front. I tend to run my 26x2.25 UST Nobby Nic at between 22 and 24psi for an 85kg male on a 130mm travel AM/Enduro bike with UST rims.

Maxxis only for me on converted rims.

Thanks TG -

Ill def keep this in mind ...ill be looking into it all (hopefully) this weekend ....if it keeps raining there will be plenty of garage spin cycle riding and tinkering with the bike

silentbutdeadly · Postby **silentbutdeadly** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:38 am

I have to admit to being lazy with converting the Giant 29er wheels to tubeless...I ended up buying a tubeless ready wheelset for the Anthem - that was also lighter and stiffer to boot. But I also had to get tubeless tyres (Geax AKA with their TNT carcass)

However, I'm now using the Giant wheels on a Cannondale 29er hardtail. I've had some 9mm QR conversion plugs made for the QR15 front hub ($30 at the local engineering shop) so it can be used on the RS Recon fork. But I'm running plain old tubes. Except these are Schrader valve tubes with removable cores. And I'm filling these with 50ml of a 70:30 mix of Stans and Slime. History has proven this to be an effective setup that precludes the need for a heavy walled tubeless carcass tyre - in other words, I can use the tyres the bike came with rather than invest another $100 in tyres.

When I wear out two sets of conventional tyres (Maxxis Crossmarks, Kenda Smal Block) then I'll probably convert them but till then...why spend more?

PaulMoran · Postby **PaulMoran** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:44 am

Fair enough - no point throwing money away ...

...so, for me, to dive into this conversion I need 1 x lot of rim tape and the goo - is that all ?

I asked at my LBS and the dood said he can to it all for me for around $40/wheel .......good price etc ? I make sure i hang about to watch how he does it

trailgumby · Postby **trailgumby** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:50 am

Smart move SBD. I especially like the 70/30 Stan's/Slime mix. Last time I used Slime in tubes about 6 years ago, all it really did was clog my valves and make it impossible to add air

On the subject of Cannondale 29ers, it looks like I'm now no longer the the only guy in town running 700c rims and roadie slicks on their Lefty-forked hardtail. There was a guy on a Flash 29er at the intersection of Miller St and Pacific Hwy. We looked at each other and grinned.

@Paul: If your rims are welded you can get away with tape only, but if they're pinned you need either the Stans or (better) Bontrager rim strips, or (ghetto tubeless) a Schwalbe 20" BMX tube cut all the way around the circumference on the side opposite the valve. Otherwise the pinned joint will leak at the bead.

silentbutdeadly · Postby **silentbutdeadly** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:03 am

PaulMoran wrote:Fair enough - no point throwing money away ...

...so, for me, to dive into this conversion I need 1 x lot of rim tape and the goo - is that all ?

I asked at my LBS and the dood said he can to it all for me for around $40/wheel .......good price etc ? I make sure i hang about to watch how he does it

You'll need the valves too. The general findings at Rotorburn are that the Bontrager tubeless conversion kit does the job on these rims but it can only typically be found at Trek/Bontrager dealers.

These Giant rims are indeed pinned but the biggest hassle (I'm told) is the relative position of the drain hole which precludes the use of narrow tubeless tape but wider tape can fill the bead unless you are very careful so the rim doesn't hang onto the tyre...

PaulMoran · Postby **PaulMoran** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:06 am

Excellent, thanks again fella's -

Ill try and track down some Bont / Trek tape -

cheers again!

trailgumby · Postby **trailgumby** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:09 pm

Sorry to be a pedant ... want to make sure you get the right stuff.

The Bontrager rim strips are not tape, they're a formed plastic (Teflon or PVC) rim liner that mimics the UST inner rim profile and seals against the tyre bead.

PaulMoran · Postby **PaulMoran** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:13 pm

i just googled it and found this lovely graphic -

http://bontrager.com/technology/why_tubeless_ready

happy days - i work very pictorially

cheers again!

EDIT - is this it here: http://www.mymountain.com.au/p/5799574/ ... hythm.html

silentbutdeadly · Postby **silentbutdeadly** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:23 pm

That's the trucker...and Trailgumby is spot on...it's a liner!

trailgumby · Postby **trailgumby** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:07 pm

Yep, that's the one.

m@ · Postby m@ » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:24 pm

silentbutdeadly wrote:However, I'm now using the Giant wheels on a Cannondale 29er hardtail. I've had some 9mm QR conversion plugs made for the QR15 front hub ($30 at the local engineering shop) so it can be used on the RS Recon fork.

Bit of a thread gravedig here, but was wondering if you could give me any more details on this please @silentbutdeadly?

I'm planning to use my Anthem wheels on a carbon 'cross frame I picked up for a song - hopefully in time for the Dirty Deeds finale...

I still get a lot of comments on the Crank Bros Cobalt wheels on the Anthem - including from a bloke with the same setup I almost OTB'd into on the North-South track back in January

silentbutdeadly · Postby **silentbutdeadly** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:06 pm

m@ wrote:
silentbutdeadly wrote:However, I'm now using the Giant wheels on a Cannondale 29er hardtail. I've had some 9mm QR conversion plugs made for the QR15 front hub ($30 at the local engineering shop) so it can be used on the RS Recon fork.
Bit of a thread gravedig here, but was wondering if you could give me any more details on this please @silentbutdeadly?

I can actually. Would you like the plugs for the cost of postage?

They are no longer in use because the hub bearing shell on one side of the Giant hub managed to stretch itself after the original lame duck cheapskate bearings decided to expire without my knowledge...so the wheel is fornicated. I may use the rim on another 9mm DT Swiss hub I have courtesy of Clickbike for the planned rigid drop bar conversion of the Cannondale 29er...

My only caveat is that it is possible that the plugs may have contributed to the failure but I can't really see how since they were a tight fit and went deep enough into the axle to take in the bearing and axle...

I did manage to get the Giant rims to go tubeless too. Ghetto style. No fancy rim strips. Just Gorilla tape...

Your Anthem looks exactly like mine apart from that mudguard...and I've got alt-bars and a 1x10 driveline.

m@ · Postby m@ » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:10 am

Well... yes please! That would be awesome - will send a PM. Thanks! Sorry to hear about the hub kaking itself - hopefully not a widespread fault...

Coincidentally, I've been considering 1x and alt-bars to help with my wrist... The mudguard is a regrettable necessity in Melbourne, though more importantly I need to MacGuiver something between the vertical braces of the rear triangle to keep the FD and suspension clean...

For anyone searching for info, I ended up going for the lazy option of Bontrager rim strips... tried a few and found that the 'road' strip and valves fitted my 2012 PXC-2 wheels. Dropped into the bike shop on the way to the trail and was riding tubeless within the hour!