Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

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Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby khendar » Tue May 08, 2012 10:01 am

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-07/c ... ne/3995038

Note the comment by the anchors at the end. Apparently SOMETIMES when a cyclist is doored, it's actually their fault...

Either that or the anchor is an idiot who doesn't understand the problem.
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by BNA » Tue May 08, 2012 10:45 am

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby find_bruce » Tue May 08, 2012 10:45 am

Unfreaking believable. This is one of those few occasions when the road rules are clear
Road Safety Road Rules 2009 (Vic) wrote:269 Opening doors and getting out of a vehicle etc.
(3) A person must not cause a hazard to any person or vehicle by opening a door of a vehicle, leaving a door of a vehicle open, or getting off, or out of, a vehicle.

So while it's not always the driver's fault, that's because sometimes it is a passenger that opens the door.

It is scary that three presumably licenced drivers are neither educated nor aware of the requirements of the road rules.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Tue May 08, 2012 10:59 am

Gary Brennan - "most drivers are only getting the minimum fine of $122". no they're not, police are reluctant to fine them at all in most cases, based on reports from cyclists i've heard.

(AT) ABC news hosts - wow you're clueless.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby eeksll » Tue May 08, 2012 11:41 am

hmmm, not sure how "reckless" cycling can be the cause of being doored. One might be able to argue that cyclist are riding too fast when there is that stupid bike lane with the car parking on the inside.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby trailgumby » Tue May 08, 2012 11:50 am

Disgusted? Send a complaint:

http://www.abc.net.au/contact/complain.htm

Here's mine:
I am appalled by the uninformed comments from the news anchors at the conclusion of this story:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-07/c ... ne/3995038

Victorian road rule 269 puts the onus squarely and unequivocally on the person opening the door to ensure that doing so does not constitute a hazard to any other person or vehicle.

"Road Safety Road Rules 2009 (Vic):
269 Opening doors and getting out of a vehicle etc.
(3) A person must not cause a hazard to any person or vehicle by opening a door of a vehicle, leaving a door of a vehicle open, or getting off, or out of, a vehicle."

In the interest of balance, I and every other cyclist would like you to counsel these two newsreaders on a correct understanding of the road rules, re-run the interview, and issue a correction to these erroneous statements.

Having been, as a cyclist, on the receiving end of deliberate driver misbehaviour that has required ambulance assistance to hospital, I am equipped to tell you this kind of misinformation has a real and adverse impact on cyclist safety through driver attitudes.

I am particularly disgusted at the inference that the safety of a vulnerable group should not be taken as seriously because of the misbehaviour of a minority within it. Try making the same kind of statement with regard to aboriginals, Jews or gays and see the storm that (justifiably) erupts.

To see this kind of out-group villification from the ABC is enormously disappointing.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby il padrone » Tue May 08, 2012 11:50 am

Had this discussion with the husband of a colleague...... a police officer. Most disturbing to hear a serving police officer argue that often it is not the driver/passenger's fault if a cyclist hits an opened car door :shock: :evil: He was trying to suggest that cyclists are required to keep clear, once a car door has been opened. Pretty dodgy hair-splitting to my way of thinking.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Tue May 08, 2012 11:54 am

il padrone wrote:Had this discussion with the husband of a colleague...... a police officer. Most disturbing to hear a serving police officer argue that often it is not the driver/passenger's fault if a cyclist hits an opened car door :shock: :evil: He was trying to suggest that cyclists are required to keep clear, once a car door has been opened. Pretty dodgy hair-splitting to my way of thinking.

he's not a police officer so much as a motorist who is reluctant to accept responsibility for ensuring other road users' safety. for the record, i think he's right that cyclists have an obligation to steer clear of an open door, when it's been opened for long enough to allow that. but who in their right mind would ride into a door like that? the reality is, these crashes happen when doors are opened unexpectedly into the paths of cyclists. we know that of course. these sorts of comments also hint at a reason for the frequent reluctance of police to enforce the rule. we have a long way to go, sadly.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Mapomatic » Tue May 08, 2012 12:12 pm

My wife and I were stunned to watch this yesterday morning. The only assumption I can make is they were speaking generally about cyclist/motorist interactions, not specifically about dooring.

Also, this is why I refuse to travel anywhere near a car door. I'd rather cop uninformed abuse from motorists than to have to pick my teeth up off the road after a wearing a car door to the face.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby trailgumby » Tue May 08, 2012 12:22 pm

jules21 wrote:for the record, i think he's right that cyclists have an obligation to steer clear of an open door, when it's been opened for long enough to allow that. but who in their right mind would ride into a door like that? the reality is, these crashes happen when doors are opened unexpectedly into the paths of cyclists. we know that of course.

Hope I'm not taking your comments out of context here, but it needs to be remembered that it's not usually the collision with the door that kills, but being run over by vehicle in the next lane as you either swerve to miss the door or get bounced out onto the roadway.

The guy who was the subject of the inquest died that way, as did the young British nurse in NZ, and my late cousin's riding buddy in Old Bar NSW.

So, yeah, if I couldn't brake in time I'd choose to hit the door ... and hopefully use the old fart who opened it as cushioning. Better that than becoming road pizza.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Tue May 08, 2012 1:28 pm

trailgumby wrote:Hope I'm not taking your comments out of context here, but it needs to be remembered that it's not usually the collision with the door that kills, but being run over by vehicle in the next lane as you either swerve to miss the door or get bounced out onto the roadway.

i certainly understand that, but that wasn't what i was referring to. my point was that in many cases:
1. motorist looks to see if coast is clear.
2. motorist opens door if coast is clear.
3. motorist proceeds to unload kids/shopping/drugs from car while door is left open, trusting that any traffic approaching them will take appropriate action (no different to approaching a parked car blocking your lane).

in that circumstance, in my view, there is nothing dangerous about the motorist's actions and the onus should be on other traffic (inc. cyclists) to ensure a safe outcome.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby grasshopper » Tue May 08, 2012 1:48 pm

trailgumby wrote:Disgusted? Send a complaint:

http://www.abc.net.au/contact/complain.htm

+1. I sent some 'feedback' to the news editor last night, and they have now added a correction. But just to rub it in, I've let them know it's now gone global.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Tue May 08, 2012 1:55 pm

classic, love the Anchorman reference :)
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby khendar » Tue May 08, 2012 2:02 pm

Awesome. That was quick work. I saw that a couple of people commented on the ABC News Facebook page about it as well. Nice to see them offer a correction.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby grasshopper » Tue May 08, 2012 2:04 pm

Yeah, perfect from bs. :lol: I thought about his salmoning comment this morning though, as a driver pulled out from the left coming towards me, and her door flew open. She did grab it, but it might have been interesting if I'd been 10m closer. So they can get you either direction.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby iaintas » Tue May 08, 2012 2:12 pm

the link does not work for me has this article been removed by the ABC?
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Tue May 08, 2012 2:14 pm

iaintas wrote:the link does not work for me has this article been removed by the ABC?

yes it has. you can't be too careful with shows like MediaWatch around :)
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby khendar » Tue May 08, 2012 2:15 pm

Looks like it. Here's another link:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-08/d ... ts/3998484
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Ozkaban » Tue May 08, 2012 2:17 pm

grasshopper wrote:
trailgumby wrote:But just to rub it in, I've let them know it's now gone global.



Thanks for that link. enjoyed the transitions video!

i also thought the ny blog pretty nicely summed up the presenters...
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Marto » Tue May 08, 2012 2:21 pm

il padrone wrote:Had this discussion with the husband of a colleague...... a police officer. Most disturbing to hear a serving police officer argue that often it is not the driver/passenger's fault if a cyclist hits an opened car door :shock: :evil: He was trying to suggest that cyclists are required to keep clear, once a car door has been opened. Pretty dodgy hair-splitting to my way of thinking.


What..? Then I could leave my car doors open on the street all the time!

But how do they determine if the collision was with an opened or opening door?

When it is a car dooring another car, how is blame apportioned?
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby birdbrain » Tue May 08, 2012 3:05 pm

Had this discussion with the husband of a colleague...... a police officer. Most disturbing to hear a serving police officer argue that often it is not the driver/passenger's fault if a cyclist hits an opened car door He was trying to suggest that cyclists are required to keep clear, once a car door has been opened. Pretty dodgy hair-splitting to my way of thinking.


I'm not surprised to hear anything that police officers say in relation to accidents. It seems to be to much effort for them to do anything other than jot down a few notes in their report. Try asking them to have a motorist charged with an offense and the response might be:
"there were no witnesses".
"Excuse me Constable but there were witnesses including a member of the police force who happened to be in the car behind the car that caused the impact"
"Well other witnesses said differently but they don't want to get involved"
"are you going to charge the driver with an offense?"
"no"
:roll:
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby jules21 » Tue May 08, 2012 3:15 pm

it helps to think of cops on the beat like the call centre jockey you speak to who has the problem solving skills of a 2 yr old and the motivation of a sloth. not all fit that bill, but some certainly do. elevate it to their mgr (s/sgt).
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby queequeg » Tue May 08, 2012 3:46 pm

grasshopper wrote:
trailgumby wrote:Disgusted? Send a complaint:

http://www.abc.net.au/contact/complain.htm

+1. I sent some 'feedback' to the news editor last night, and they have now added a correction. But just to rub it in, I've let them know it's now gone global.


That's ok, because the original is on YouTube :-)

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby Aushiker » Tue May 08, 2012 4:19 pm

Please consider letting the ABC News 24 team know your views on this. They are on Twitter and on Facebook or you can make a formal complaint. Also the Managing Director of the ABC, Mark Scott is on Twitter as well.

Oh BTW the ABC will edit out any negative comments from its Facebook page.

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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby G-Ride » Tue May 08, 2012 5:10 pm

Little wrong with that at all. To blame all incidents on motorists is just plain wrong - admittedly the quest for balance at the end was clumsy but the point was valid.
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Re: Been doored recently ? It might be your fault.

Postby KenGS » Tue May 08, 2012 5:25 pm

G-Ride wrote:Little wrong with that at all. To blame all incidents on motorists is just plain wrong - admittedly the quest for balance at the end was clumsy but the point was valid.

Not even the ABC agrees with that: http://www.abc.net.au/news/corrections/
In my complaint I suggested to them that an on-air retraction was in order due to the impact on cyclist safety
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