1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week?

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1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week?

Postby Le Velo » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:11 pm

Doing my first road race in 2 weeks (24th June) the Avanti Classic and have been training pretty well for it with a lot of hill training, intervals, speed work, recovery and can now see the improvement starting to show now from the last 6 weeks of training. ...... now my question is when should I start to taper? This coming week meaning 2 weeks before the race of the week leading to it? Some people said do not get on the bike at all the week leading but other said to do so but about 30 - 50% at a lower intensity with some short sets of interval every 2-3 days only
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated .... Cheers
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by BNA » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:38 pm

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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:38 pm

I only taper for the biggies... I have a 3 day race starting next Friday. I am still riding hard now, will race as hard as possible Sunday for two hours.
Have Monday off or very quiet.
Then Tuesday I will ride pretty hard but short...say 4 x 5 minutes climbs pretty hard but only ride 75minutes all up.
Wed will be Very quiet.
Thursday will see how I feel but probably on an hour with a 20 minute pretty good pace thrown in.
Friday morning I will ride 45 minutes reasonable.
Pack up and head off.
Super hard prologue 9pm Friday night.
100 km stage Sat.
40km stage Sun morning.
90km stage Sun Arvy.

In other words taper by riding hard but much shorter than normal.Keep the intensity up with out the fatigue.
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Le Velo » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:15 pm

Cool, thanks TTL, one guy I was talking with said to taper Now but the race is 2 weeks away ! I feel I'd have nothing coming race day if I was to do that. Makes more sense to keep training but keeping sweet and short I guess. I sure feel I'm on the way up as my numbers are improving really well in terms of speeds, climbing abilities (mind you I've been doing a lot of hill work), recovery is good also, no cramping, lots of rubs down with Eco rollers after rides which helps the muscles, my cadence has been getting much higher also and now sit comfortable tapping away around 100 on a 100k+ ride ....
Let's keep riding but more sensible I guess .... Good luck with your race and will keep you posted with mine.
Merci beaucoup Et Bonne chance !
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby wulfy117 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:21 pm

Everyone's physiology is different. 2 weeks is overkill for most. Just don't smash yourself in the 3 days coming up to the race.

A good warm up is just as important as the tapering. Make sure you run your engine in before the race ( At least 20min ride with 2 or 3 big efforts ).
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Le Velo » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:24 pm

wulfy117 wrote:Everyone's physiology is different. 2 weeks is overkill for most. Just don't smash yourself in the 3 days coming up to the race.

A good warm up is just as important as the tapering. Make sure you run your engine in before the race ( At least 20min ride with 2 or 3 big efforts ).


Warm up yes, definitely ..... Will have rollers on road side for warm up and yes planning to take it easy a few days before which short easy spin. Cheers
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1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week?

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:44 pm

Don't take it too easy the day before... déblocage mon pote... La deuxième jour d'intensité c'est tous jour la plus mieux ;-) .
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Le Velo » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:55 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Don't take it too easy the day before... déblocage mon pote... La deuxième jour d'intensité c'est tous jour la plus mieux ;-) .


Grosse session le samedi alors ? Tu crois? Ca va pas fatiguer les Jambes Et les muscles?
Si tu dis alors je vais essayer .... J'essayerais demain car aujourd'hui je me suis taper 120km a fond les taquets Avec des cols Et demain y a un crit que je veux faire. Les Jambes sont un peu molles ce soir alors on Vera demain comment ca performe
Je sais pas si je vais faire C demain car j'ai fais sa jusqu'a maintenant Et peut essayer de le gagner ou Allez direct en B Et essayer de rester Avec le peloton mais je sais pas si j'ai des chances a gagner en B car is sont un peux plus rapide que moi au sprint .... Mais Bon il faut essayer je pense
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:01 pm

...switching back ... no not a huge effort the day before. Just an hour but with maybe a couple of one minutes hard (not full out), couple of one minute high cadence / low force efforts, 10 minutes around ftp pace... 10 minutes warm down... nothing that will make you tired ( if you are tired doing that then I would be worried the day before a race! ).
How long is the race btw?.
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Le Velo » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:13 pm

toolonglegs wrote:...switching back ... no not a huge effort the day before. Just an hour but with maybe a couple of one minutes hard (not full out), couple of one minute high cadence / low force efforts, 10 minutes around ftp pace... 10 minutes warm down... nothing that will make you tired ( if you are tired doing that then I would be worried the day before a race! ).
How long is the race btw?.


Kinda was what I had mapped out for that week leading to it yes ....the race is an 80km road race with a few inclines, not the best surface and one section is prone to headwinds. It will be as a handicap start also.
Apart from the odd local crits my race experience is very limited but keen to give it a good go
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby trailgumby » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:25 pm

2 weeks is too long to taper. TLL has nailed it with his advice. I tend to taper before a major race with a hard spin session on the Tuesday or Wednesday night before, take it easy until the Saturday when I do about 45 minutes roughly following what he's suggested for a Sunday race. I try to do the 45 on the actual course if possible.
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Le Velo » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:02 pm

Thanks for the advise and pointers. Training keeps going for this week and then some lower intensity next week and easy one the day before with a few bursts as suggested .... Cheers
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:29 pm

Le Velo wrote:Doing my first road race in 2 weeks (24th June) the Avanti Classic and have been training pretty well for it with a lot of hill training, intervals, speed work, recovery and can now see the improvement starting to show now from the last 6 weeks of training. ......

How much training do you typically do?

If it's less than say 13-15 hours per week for the last few months, I'd suggest an attempt to taper has more potential to degrade performance than assist. Even when needed and properly executed, a taper will still only result in a performance improvement in the order of 2% of power output. Tapers are for those that train with high work loads over long periods. The rest should train right up to and through most events, with perhaps one extra day of rest in the week before.
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Le Velo » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:08 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
Le Velo wrote:Doing my first road race in 2 weeks (24th June) the Avanti Classic and have been training pretty well for it with a lot of hill training, intervals, speed work, recovery and can now see the improvement starting to show now from the last 6 weeks of training. ......

How much training do you typically do?

If it's less than say 13-15 hours per week for the last few months, I'd suggest an attempt to taper has more potential to degrade performance than assist. Even when needed and properly executed, a taper will still only result in a performance improvement in the order of 2% of power output. Tapers are for those that train with high work loads over long periods. The rest should train right up to and through most events, with perhaps one extra day of rest in the week before.


Alex, my training is average of 14h a week and distance of 386km with elevation of around 5000m on a typical week.
I think that I will stick to my training plan with my weekly rest day till the race and an easy spin the day before not to hurt too much on the day.
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1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week?

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:48 pm

I have only been doing 13 hrs average for the last 18 weeks... Maybe I need a harder week :-| .
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Le Velo » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:44 pm

toolonglegs wrote:I have only been doing 13 hrs average for the last 18 weeks... Maybe I need a harder week :-| .


Lol ... Only been doing those numbers since October last year after I did Brisbane to Sydney for a charity ride in a week and got me motivated to get out just about every day so you doing fine TTL :)
Wish I could do more :mrgreen:
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Abby » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:18 am

Hi Le Velo,

Tapering is a bit of a 'black art', in that its a highly individual thing.

Best thing I have found is to rely on your own experience over the last couple of months of training. Think about when you have felt your 'best' - that is, the training days when the legs have been on fie, you've felt rested, and its like you have a tailwind everywhere you go... Then look closely at the training you did in teh few days prior to that - its likely you had a rest day in there somewhere, plus look at the duration & intensity of rides leading into it.

Once you've identified that, look to replicate it leading into race day, with the goal of having that 'awesome day' at the Avanti Classic. On the colume you are doing (slightly more than mine), its unlikely that your taper needs to be more than 3-4 days in length...

Just on the Avanti Classic - it is a sensational race, and you'll really enjoy it. I've always been chewed up and spat out a bit in that race (it can be very freakin' hard!), but even then its a terrific race - wonderful, scenic course, and superbly organised. I'll be there in Balmoral kit, hopefully in one of the earlier groups to go off (I normally race in Masters C)...

Best of luck!!
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Le Velo » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:48 am

Abby wrote:Hi Le Velo,

Tapering is a bit of a 'black art', in that its a highly individual thing.

Best thing I have found is to rely on your own experience over the last couple of months of training. Think about when you have felt your 'best' - that is, the training days when the legs have been on fie, you've felt rested, and its like you have a tailwind everywhere you go... Then look closely at the training you did in teh few days prior to that - its likely you had a rest day in there somewhere, plus look at the duration & intensity of rides leading into it.

Once you've identified that, look to replicate it leading into race day, with the goal of having that 'awesome day' at the Avanti Classic. On the colume you are doing (slightly more than mine), its unlikely that your taper needs to be more than 3-4 days in length...

Just on the Avanti Classic - it is a sensational race, and you'll really enjoy it. I've always been chewed up and spat out a bit in that race (it can be very freakin' hard!), but even then its a terrific race - wonderful, scenic course, and superbly organised. I'll be there in Balmoral kit, hopefully in one of the earlier groups to go off (I normally race in Masters C)...

Best of luck!!
Abby


Hi Abby, makes all sense yes ..... Actually had a really good week a couple of weeks ago where I had a saturday off with a lot of hill repeats in that week with the correct recovery ride and intervals also and went to a crit where i finished 2nd (C grade) and was really hapy with the result considering I came back up from 7th spots at the back in the sprint and was a close finish.
Last week was really good also where I had saturday off and went out sunday for a 120km loop and was at the front of the pack for the whole ride and managed to come home with a 31av over the distance.
Have been training more with the head over the past weeks rather than just ride and doing junk mile. I found the hill repeats have helped a lot and long distance rides also.
I'll be racing in C grade also, so no doubt we will see each other.
I heard it's not an easy race but the only option is to finish and do my best
Cheers
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Abby » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:40 am

All on track Le Velo?? :D

I'm doing a little 'mini taper' for Sunday. Only one hard day this week (yesterday), day off today, and either day off or very easy, short spin around thelocal suburbs tomorrow...

Looks like the weather might be pretty cool on Sunday. Hopefully will be perfect racing conditions, and won't become 'cold'...!!

Best of luck, see you out there...!!

Cheers,
Abby
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Le Velo » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:20 am

Abby wrote:All on track Le Velo?? :D

I'm doing a little 'mini taper' for Sunday. Only one hard day this week (yesterday), day off today, and either day off or very easy, short spin around thelocal suburbs tomorrow...

Looks like the weather might be pretty cool on Sunday. Hopefully will be perfect racing conditions, and won't become 'cold'...!!

Best of luck, see you out there...!!

Cheers,
Abby


Hi Abby, as ready as I can be I guess ..... I did drop the training intensity this week down to 200km from 350 last week and 400 +/- in the previous weeks
Had a really good massage yesterday but it hurts today (he did warn me) Went for a short stroll today and the legs felt a bit tender but to be expected
Tomorrow I have a fundraising event which involves spinning on the rollers being cycling related so I will take it very very easy with a couple of bursts to remind the legs of a what to do ..... plenty of rest this week, an early saturday and clean the bike and lube, check tyres, etc .....
A good dinner, a warm bath and early night and see what sunday brings !
1sr road race ! Kinda excited ..... I think I wet my panties :mrgreen:
Any idea where to find the course map?
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Chookman » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:00 pm

Le Velo wrote:
Abby wrote:All on track Le Velo?? :D

I'm doing a little 'mini taper' for Sunday. Only one hard day this week (yesterday), day off today, and either day off or very easy, short spin around thelocal suburbs tomorrow...

Looks like the weather might be pretty cool on Sunday. Hopefully will be perfect racing conditions, and won't become 'cold'...!!

Best of luck, see you out there...!!

Cheers,
Abby


Hi Abby, as ready as I can be I guess ..... I did drop the training intensity this week down to 200km from 350 last week and 400 +/- in the previous weeks
Had a really good massage yesterday but it hurts today (he did warn me) Went for a short stroll today and the legs felt a bit tender but to be expected
Tomorrow I have a fundraising event which involves spinning on the rollers being cycling related so I will take it very very easy with a couple of bursts to remind the legs of a what to do ..... plenty of rest this week, an early saturday and clean the bike and lube, check tyres, etc .....
A good dinner, a warm bath and early night and see what sunday brings !
1sr road race ! Kinda excited ..... I think I wet my panties :mrgreen:
Any idea where to find the course map?


In my experience a deep massage isn't a great idea within a few days of a 'key' race. If racing Sunday i'd be getting a massage much earlier in the week. Hope it doesn't give you any negative effect!

Good luck on Sunday!
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Abby » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:02 pm

Well, I LIFTED my training to 200km/week for this race, so you can be sure you'll beat at least one person home... :wink:

You'll be right. Toughest bits of the course are the climbs before & after the Wivenhoe Dam wall. Corners are really well marshalled, so you won't get lost... Although if you google it, you'll probably find an old race map - its always been the same (except for 2010, which was diverted 10km longer due to roadworks on a key bridge).

Biggest 'risk' is if its a windy day - the course is very 'open' and winds can really be tough if they pick up...

Which club jersey will you be wearing? Just need to id a good wheel to follow... :wink:

Cheers,
Abby
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Le Velo » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:42 pm

Chookman wrote:
Le Velo wrote:
Abby wrote:All on track Le Velo?? :D

I'm doing a little 'mini taper' for Sunday. Only one hard day this week (yesterday), day off today, and either day off or very easy, short spin around thelocal suburbs tomorrow...

Looks like the weather might be pretty cool on Sunday. Hopefully will be perfect racing conditions, and won't become 'cold'...!!

Best of luck, see you out there...!!

Cheers,
Abby


Hi Abby, as ready as I can be I guess ..... I did drop the training intensity this week down to 200km from 350 last week and 400 +/- in the previous weeks
Had a really good massage yesterday but it hurts today (he did warn me) Went for a short stroll today and the legs felt a bit tender but to be expected
Tomorrow I have a fundraising event which involves spinning on the rollers being cycling related so I will take it very very easy with a couple of bursts to remind the legs of a what to do ..... plenty of rest this week, an early saturday and clean the bike and lube, check tyres, etc .....
A good dinner, a warm bath and early night and see what sunday brings !
1sr road race ! Kinda excited ..... I think I wet my panties :mrgreen:
Any idea where to find the course map?


In my experience a deep massage isn't a great idea within a few days of a 'key' race. If racing Sunday i'd be getting a massage much earlier in the week. Hope it doesn't give you any negative effect!

Good luck on Sunday!


Damn it I'll have to blame my physio now if I don't make it ! It was more of a stretch and pressure points relief than a deep tissue massage ..... the guy know his stuff and is a cycling himself (Australia gold medalist) and is currently looking after at QRS team also .... I have faith in him :D
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Le Velo » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:45 pm

Abby wrote:Well, I LIFTED my training to 200km/week for this race, so you can be sure you'll beat at least one person home... :wink:

You'll be right. Toughest bits of the course are the climbs before & after the Wivenhoe Dam wall. Corners are really well marshalled, so you won't get lost... Although if you google it, you'll probably find an old race map - its always been the same (except for 2010, which was diverted 10km longer due to roadworks on a key bridge).

Biggest 'risk' is if its a windy day - the course is very 'open' and winds can really be tough if they pick up...

Which club jersey will you be wearing? Just need to id a good wheel to follow... :wink:

Cheers,
Abby


Thanks Abby, I did find a couple of maps and wasn't sure which one it would be. I heard the wind can be an issue but let's see I guess, could be a tail which would be nice
I'm wearing the Team kit which is green and white with Tinelli logo on the back ..... catch up sunday and maybe say hi if we get to see each other.
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1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week?

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:54 pm

I ended up tapering less than last time ... 70 km hard hilly race Sunday previous. 60km medium club ride the Tuesday and pretty hard 55km on the Thursday with a couple of short KOM efforts.
Felt ok for the Friday prologue ( which was just way too steep for me )... And by Saturday the legs were good although I could feel the previous nights effort in them. Anyway in the end I struggled a bit with first stage mainly due to the heat... And the gradients... And the level of competition :-( ... So anyway I can't really be sure how my taper effected me or not... As usual the 4th stage was my best ( or others worst ) ... Maybe that should tell me something, but I don't know what!.
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Re: 1st road race in 2 weeks when to taper? Now or next week

Postby Le Velo » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:57 pm

toolonglegs wrote:I ended up tapering less than last time ... 70 km hard hilly race Sunday previous. 60km medium club ride the Tuesday and pretty hard 55km on the Thursday with a couple of short KOM efforts.
Felt ok for the Friday prologue ( which was just way too steep for me )... And by Saturday the legs were good although I could feel the previous nights effort in them. Anyway in the end I struggled a bit with first stage mainly due to the heat... And the gradients... And the level of competition :-( ... So anyway I can't really be sure how my taper effected me or not... As usual the 4th stage was my best ( or others worst ) ... Maybe that should tell me something, but I don't know what!.


I think this will be a learning curve for me no doubt and as the past few weeks have been training specific focused with diet, exercises , stretches, rest involved.
I have noticed some major improvements in performance overhaul let it be climbing, speed, endurance, recovery (whilst riding)
Again all it takes is a crap night of sleep to put you in a bad head space .... on that note I might go to bed now :shock:
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