Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

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Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Riggsbie » Sun May 27, 2012 11:16 am

Guys,

I need an objective recommendation for a nooby Dually MTB.....

I have a crappy lower back and hardtails are just too harsh on my back..... I have tried riding trails are really enjoy it but need something that will absorb those harsher bumps and jolts.....

So, recommend away......

I saw an Apollo Terra 20 at my LBS and was rather impressed with the quality of the componentry and the shop were willing to haggle on price a bit too.....

Thanks....
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by BNA » Sun May 27, 2012 12:18 pm

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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby JustJames » Sun May 27, 2012 12:18 pm

I like the look of that, although I am not convinced on 2 x 10 gearing for MTB's, unless you are planning on riding fairly flat trails. Much as I dislike 3x gearing on road bikes, off road you really do need it. (OK, I really do need it!)

Duallies with the shock slung beneath the top tube strike me as a better design than using a pivot (bell crank) to move the suspension travel through 110 degrees or so and a vertical shock parallel to the down tube. The design looks simpler and keeps the shock up out of the crud.
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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby antipodean » Sun May 27, 2012 3:03 pm

Take a spin on a 29er hardtail you might be surprised how comfortable they are - I know I was.
2x10 gearing is fantastic btw.
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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Riggsbie » Sun May 27, 2012 3:40 pm

Yep, I am a bit sceptical of 2x10 setups....

Both my recumbents have 3 x 10 and I use the full range, high cadence all the time.....that way it takes the strain off my knees and so far I haven't found a road I couldn't climb.....I have recumbent cycled up Mount Buffalo....

I imagine 3 x 10 is probably essential for anything with some degree of gradient !

Are the Avanti Vapour bikes any good, again they have pretty decent spec chainsets etc....
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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby trailgumby » Sun May 27, 2012 6:14 pm

Whether 2x10 is "fantastic" depends on the rider and the terrain. In my view it's just marketing BS driven by SRAM trying to create a *perceived* point of difference in the market to Shimano.

I can climb faster than a lot of my mates, but I do so at a high cadence. 2x10 sucks as far as I'm concerned - not low enough. Further, there's a big jump between big and little chainring. I've found that when you want to go to the little ring, rather than being just one down/one up (front/rear) to get the next easiest ratio, it's one down/three up, sometimes more when you want to jump a couple of ratios. You have to work a lot harder to find the right gear in my opinion.

Sure, it's where the market is going for now, but give it a few years and 3x10 will be rediscovered for the general population once the infatuation with what the pros with legs like tree trunks are doing wears off and a sense of practicality returns.

OK: Bikes. 100-120mm travel is good for most stuff. 120mm gives you the flexibility to do more techy trail stuff if you want wthout being a pig to pedal if you want to have a crack at teh occasional 50 or 100km enduro. 29ers are worth a look, too. Some nice 120mm front 100mm rear models coming out now
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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby antipodean » Sun May 27, 2012 8:24 pm

38/24 11-36 combo works well where I ride which includes a few hills.
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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Mulger bill » Sun May 27, 2012 9:12 pm

I was leaning towards a 2x10 for the upgrade to my Trance. I don't use the granny much so the loss of weight seemed like a good thing. Ten minutes aboard a 2x10 Anthem convinced me otherwise. Walking a hill I know I can clean with a granny sucked bad. Not a grinder, me. :(
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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Mugglechops » Mon May 28, 2012 6:20 pm

As usual I amn going to recommend a Giant Trance 3. While a 29er HT rides better than a 26er HT it's still no match for a 120mm dually. The Trance 3 is bloody good value too.
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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Riggsbie » Mon May 28, 2012 10:51 pm

I had a ride on a Scott Spark Team 29 today and an Avanti Vapour 2.....

What difference.....

I really liked the Scott for not a lot more money.

Next question, how does a Giant Anthem 29er compare to a Scott Spark 29 ?

Any advice would be appreciated....

Thanks
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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby silentbutdeadly » Tue May 29, 2012 9:56 am

Comparing a Scott Spark 29 Team to a Giant Anthem X 29 1? That's hard.

Spec is almost the same though the Scott has front and rear remote lockout and a few other nice touches...yet the Giant has that Fox fork with a QR15 front end. Scott is 3x10, Giant is 2x10.

On paper I'd say the Scott....and I own a 2011 Anthem X29!

Only a ride will seperate....
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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby JustJames » Tue May 29, 2012 4:18 pm

I faced a similar question about 18 months ago.

My choice was between a Scott Spark 40 and a Giant Anthem. I took the Giant for a short ride, but it plainly and simply didn't talk to me, didn't give the sweaty palms 'must have it' sensation. I have nothing negative to say about the bike, it just didn't tickle my ticklish bits.

I've been very happy with my Scott...even though circumstances have meant that I haven't ridden it for over a year. :cry:

But soon my Precious...soon! :D :lol:

Getting back to the question: the right back to buy is always the one that talks to you. The bike that you like is the bike that you will ride.
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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Riggsbie » Tue May 29, 2012 6:30 pm

Yeah....

I think it's a personal thing....

I am borrowing the demo Scott Spark Team for the weekend and will try and line up a ride on the Giant next week.

Let's hope I can get a few km's riding in.....
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Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Riggsbie » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:57 pm

After an extended weekend loan of a Scott Spark Team 29er......

Guess what I bought ?

The Scott, had a very thorough look at spec and quality of components and for the price and the ride the Scott won !!

Upto 160km on it already.......Youyangs, Ironbark Reserve, trails around Bells, Jan Juc & Torquay, Bellarine Rail Trail.......

Off down to Anglesea for a ride tomorrow !

The cleaning is rather dull........


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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby trailgumby » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:46 pm

I don't believe you. ;)

Photos or it didn't happen :lol:
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Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Riggsbie » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:46 pm

here you go, good and dirty.....

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What do you think ? Approve ?

We went down into the Otway National Park today, very tight and twisty, lots of drop offs and jumps, some steep loose climbs (18% was the steepest), and a nasty off camber side slope which I was not very happy with......

I have a lot to learn......already messed with the fork and rear shock pressures and really improved things.....what's the go with rebound ? Any recommendations ?

Riggsy

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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:23 am

Nice looking unit Riggsby.

The objective with rebound is to ensure the unit extends fast enough to avoid packing under multiple quick hits and slow enough so the extension doesn't make the wheel too light. Gareth suggested an initial setup in the shop with the rear two clicks slower than mid range and the front one click faster. He then suggested I take her to a stretch of track I knew well and ride it multiple times while keeping a log of changes and impressions. After about two dozen runs I wound up with the rear at four slower and the front at two slower. I'm sure there's more scientific methods but it feels about right for my style of white knuckled slowness.
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Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Riggsbie » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:44 am

Oki Doki....


I dropped the air pressure by 20 psi in the front forks and that made the them a bit softer with about 25% static sag, same for the rear,that made a big difference, much more compliant and took the harshness out....

Currently there is more rebound on the back shock.... I think I'll need to do some optimising :-)


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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:19 pm

Riggsbie wrote:Oki Doki....


...with about 25% static sag...


That is the going rate for most systems.
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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby trailgumby » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:40 pm

Agree with MB re: sag.

It depends though on what you're using it for and the terrain. I run 20% on my 100mm travel 26er hardtail when I'm racing so that it pedals more efficiently. That made a big difference, at the price of being noticeably harsher. The guy at AvantiPlus Narrabeen scoffed when I mentioned it to a customer, and said 15% was the go for XC. Erm, I value my wrists. Between 20 and 25% on the 130mm travel dually, depending on whether I'm racing or riding techy stuff.

Some downhillers run 35-40% sag, but then they have 200mm+ to play with.

Regarding rebound, I don't run a whole lot on the front, and tend to run quite a bit on the back. I got the idea from UK downhill-focussed publication Dirt Magaizine's Fundamentals video. The had a really good section on suspension setup from the UK RockShox guy.

It's better to err on the fast side on the front and the slow side on the back. The idea is to stop the front from packing down from successive hits and the back from kicking you in the butt, sending you over the bars and off to hospital. Hasn't stopped me going over the bars :oops: but that's been from pilot error, not from suspension setup.

The only exception (near exception) was when I swapped bikes with a mate who runs less rebound and almost over-rotated forwards in the air off the first waterbar on a fast downhill fire trail .... was frigging close. :shock: I was ready the second time and made sure I thrust the bike out hard in front of me during the pop. I don't get as much air on my own bike, but it's a lot more forgiving.
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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby trailgumby » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:48 pm

Oh, how rude of me.... nice bike! :D :D :D
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Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Riggsbie » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:25 pm

Thanks....

All this new info to assimilate.

At the moment I am just getting a much seat time as possible, speaking of which, how do you cope with the pain in the bum from saddles ?

My recumbent road bikes have awesomely comfortable seats.....I have got some padded shorts but even so it's hard on the rear end !


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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby trailgumby » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:53 pm

Riggsbie wrote:Thanks....

All this new info to assimilate.

At the moment I am just getting a much seat time as possible, speaking of which, how do you cope with the pain in the bum from saddles ?

Your butt will take time to harden up. re: the shorts, I use good quality roadie bibknicks with NZO overshorts. Baggies with built in padded liners tend to be a bit useless, unfortunately.

Give it six weeks or so of regular riding, and if it's still uncomfortable it might be worth visiting a Specialized Body Geometry dealer, sitting on their Ass-O-Meter, and buying a saddle of the appropriate width.

In the meantime, it's OK to stand up out of the saddle as needed to give your butt a break. I do.

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Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Riggsbie » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:36 pm

I have some Azumi Pearl shorts which are excellent and some padded undershorts.....

Just need to toughen up I guess ?

Yesterday did a 2 hour ride on my Musashi recumbent and it was pure luxury being reclined at 22 degrees in pure comfort !

It's quite a different riding position for me to get used to but MTBing is so fun !


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Re: Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby tomness » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:22 pm

slightly off topic.

I notice the OP is based in Geelong. Next week I am staying in Geelong and Apollo bay and I'm bringing my mtb. I would really appreciate it if you could let me know where some of the XC tracks you are riding are. I am already aware of You Yangs and Forrest, which I am keen to check out.

Looking forward to seeing your neck of the woods shortly.

And nice choice on the bike. Looks great.
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Noob MTB Dually recommendation needed.....

Postby Riggsbie » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:23 pm

The Youyangs is pretty mighty fine !

http://www.youyangsmtbinc.com.au/maps.html

The trails close to Sandy Creek Road are the beginner / intermediate trails the Stockyard trails are a lot more technical / advanced (apparently - not been up there yet being a complete n00b).....

Check out Hurst Road, just off the Great Ocean Rd, there are some good tracks there too...... Check out Strava......

There's always the Bellarine Rail Trail, Geelong to Queenscliff, a nice easy one !!

There's another rail trail which is nice - Old Beechy...... You can start at Colac or Gellibrand and ride to Beech Forest..... Some gradient but nothing serious, not technical just a fun one......

Have fun !

I am sure there are a lot more but this is what I have found so far......


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