New/Old - A mechanical question of riding vs. admiring

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New/Old - A mechanical question of riding vs. admiring

Postby familyguy » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:47 pm

Its time to think about getting more use out of the 501SL frame I’ve got sitting in the garage. It’s a mid-late 1980’s frame with 6-speed Shimano 600 components all over it.

What I’d like to end up with is:
A refinished frame
8 or 9 speeds
Integrated shifting
Possible compact double front for more options on using it as a commuter and/or Sunday rider

OK, time for some specific questions:

Is powder coating or painting the way to go for a durable, cost-effective surface? I’m only going to replace the 501SL decals, and they can go on after the refinish. Does anyone have any leads for refinishing places in Sydney that can powder coat a frame?

Is anyone running a 130mm spacing group in a 126mm steel frame, and has this caused/not caused any troubles with the frame (i.e. stress points, cracking or other issues I haven’t thought about)? Everything that I’d like to put on it is 130mm spacing. Is cold-setting (from the bible according to Sheldon) a worthy exercise to avoid any potential problems? Aside from the minor annoyance of having to pry the ends apart each time you reinsert the wheel, I can’t find any real evidence to HAVE to do this.

I’d prefer going Italian on the group; the bike just seems to be that kind of ride. Is Campy Mirage really that far down the totem pole that I should discount it as a long-term, light usage group? From what I can tell it would definitely sit above Sora in the Shimano vs. Campy scheme, and closer to Tiagra than some care to admit. Given that Mirage 2007 9-speed is on sale at PBK for $400 delivered, you can perhaps see why it’s an appetising option. Even Veloce 10 speed at $600 all told is good value I reckon.

I have no access to anything Italian (except my LBS owners new Ridley Damocles with Record) to compare groups for feel or build quality. I believe the Mirage levers are resin with an aluminium core piece, and the derailleur bodies are stamped, not cast. Is this correct? How does this affect lever feel in particular?

This also leads me to (yet more) expense: wheels. Though a nice set of used Campy suitable wheels shouldn’t run to more than $180. If I keep adding money to the project at this rate I’m heading for divorce country…

Jim
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by BNA » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:52 pm

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Postby heavymetal » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:52 pm

I've cold set/spread three frames to a wider 130mm setting. One failed, and the other two are OK. Once I spread the frame, I usually use the string method to make minute measurements to make sure that the frame is straight.

I'd recommend practicing on some old frames before attempting this. A large block of timber and a concrete floor are the only tools required :D

Kev.
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Re: New/Old - A mechanical question of riding vs. admiring

Postby alchemist » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:26 am

familyguy wrote:
Is powder coating or painting the way to go for a durable, cost-effective surface? I’m only going to replace the 501SL decals, and they can go on after the refinish. Does anyone have any leads for refinishing places in Sydney that can powder coat a frame?


Don't know of anyone that powder coats frames regularly in Sydney, but Star Enamellers in Bankstown have a good reputation for painting frames. For powder coating a lot of people use Grip Sport in Melbourne.
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Postby toff » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:30 am

Star Enamellers are the best in Sydney for frame painting. Peter is doing some resto work for me at the moment. I asked him about powder coating another frame, and he said he doesn't do it, but he suggested I bring the bike in, and he would recommend the right people to do it.

Powder coating won't be as pretty, but it will be more durable...

Also, in my experience, Campy wears in whereas Shimano wears out, so I'd go low-end Campy, and enjoy it.
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Postby mikesbytes » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:06 pm

I have a 78 road bike that I commute on (when its working). It has 2 rear wheels, a 7 speed and a 9 speed. I can interchange them despite the 4mm difference. It will depend on your frame.

If the existing wheels are working, why not use them? Why do you need more gears?
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Re: New/Old - A mechanical question of riding vs. admiring

Postby thomas_cho » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:24 pm

familyguy wrote:
Is anyone running a 130mm spacing group in a 126mm steel frame, and has this caused/not caused any troubles with the frame (i.e. stress points, cracking or other issues I haven’t thought about)? Everything that I’d like to put on it is 130mm spacing. Is cold-setting (from the bible according to Sheldon) a worthy exercise to avoid any potential problems? Aside from the minor annoyance of having to pry the ends apart each time you reinsert the wheel, I can’t find any real evidence to HAVE to do this.


I am running a current day wheelset 130mm on my 126mm Kenevans frame. That just equates to 2mm on each side, the rear stays probably flex more than that.

I have only been riding it consistently for abt a year now, and have not noticed anything getting damaged.
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Postby familyguy » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:38 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I have a 78 road bike that I commute on (when its working). It has 2 rear wheels, a 7 speed and a 9 speed. I can interchange them despite the 4mm difference. It will depend on your frame.

If the existing wheels are working, why not use them? Why do you need more gears?


I find the 42/21 first gear on the 6-speed just a little high for getting up the Spit Hill or Roseville Bridge, thats all. I've got a 9-speed 12-26 that I've ridden with quite well once I remember to take the shifter off indexed. But part of the exercise is a "vintage bits + new bits" thing. Just one more feature of this disease of having bikes around...

EDIT: Of course, I could always just harden the f**k up and ride the bigger gears...

Thanks for the links to Grip Sport and pointing out Star at Bankstown. I'm sometimes in Bankstown for work so I may call in to see them next time I'm there.

Jim
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Re: New/Old - A mechanical question of riding vs. admiring

Postby 531db » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:32 pm

familyguy wrote:Its time to think about getting more use out of the 501SL frame I’ve got sitting in the garage. It’s a mid-late 1980’s frame with 6-speed Shimano 600 components all over it.

What I’d like to end up with is:
A refinished frame
8 or 9 speeds
Integrated shifting
Possible compact double front for more options on using it as a commuter and/or Sunday rider

OK, time for some specific questions:

Is powder coating or painting the way to go for a durable, cost-effective surface? I’m only going to replace the 501SL decals, and they can go on after the refinish. Does anyone have any leads for refinishing places in Sydney that can powder coat a frame?

Is anyone running a 130mm spacing group in a 126mm steel frame, and has this caused/not caused any troubles with the frame (i.e. stress points, cracking or other issues I haven’t thought about)? Everything that I’d like to put on it is 130mm spacing. Is cold-setting (from the bible according to Sheldon) a worthy exercise to avoid any potential problems? Aside from the minor annoyance of having to pry the ends apart each time you reinsert the wheel, I can’t find any real evidence to HAVE to do this.

I’d prefer going Italian on the group; the bike just seems to be that kind of ride. Is Campy Mirage really that far down the totem pole that I should discount it as a long-term, light usage group? From what I can tell it would definitely sit above Sora in the Shimano vs. Campy scheme, and closer to Tiagra than some care to admit. Given that Mirage 2007 9-speed is on sale at PBK for $400 delivered, you can perhaps see why it’s an appetising option. Even Veloce 10 speed at $600 all told is good value I reckon.

I have no access to anything Italian (except my LBS owners new Ridley Damocles with Record) to compare groups for feel or build quality. I believe the Mirage levers are resin with an aluminium core piece, and the derailleur bodies are stamped, not cast. Is this correct? How does this affect lever feel in particular?

This also leads me to (yet more) expense: wheels. Though a nice set of used Campy suitable wheels shouldn’t run to more than $180. If I keep adding money to the project at this rate I’m heading for divorce country…

Jim


Are you sure the frame is 501SL? Reynolds made a 531SL (Special Lightweight), but 501 came in the 'standard' version only. With some '531' decals, it's easy to mistake the '3' for a '0'.
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Postby familyguy » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:55 pm

Decal definitely reads 501SL. Not even close to looking like a 3. Click here for decal detail.

I've been in touch with a couple of members on BikeForums.net who have confirmed the existence of 501SL as a limited use tubeset. It is a seamed double butted tube (i.e. flat plate welded into a tube) as opposed to a drawn tube like the 531 and upper level Tange sets.

There's a bit of a discussion on it and the merits of several just-below-top-level tubesets here. T-Mar is a fairly respected member there and has proven to be pretty on the ball with tubing.

Still, it rides nicely, and I'd like to ride it more!

Jim
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Postby 531db » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:33 pm

familyguy wrote:Decal definitely reads 501SL. Not even close to looking like a 3. Click here for decal detail.

I've been in touch with a couple of members on BikeForums.net who have confirmed the existence of 501SL as a limited use tubeset. It is a seamed double butted tube (i.e. flat plate welded into a tube) as opposed to a drawn tube like the 531 and upper level Tange sets.

There's a bit of a discussion on it and the merits of several just-below-top-level tubesets here. T-Mar is a fairly respected member there and has proven to be pretty on the ball with tubing.

Still, it rides nicely, and I'd like to ride it more!

Jim


Well there you go - you do learn something everyday!

I'm a 'real steel' rider and I have several guides and charts depicting Reynolds and other manganese/moly and chrome moly tubesets, but 501SL was never mentioned.

If T-Mar is correct and the tubeset is close to Columbus SL in weight, then you may have quite a nice frame.
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Postby familyguy » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:49 pm

I havent seen the SL anywhere else but my frame either. Its not on the Equusbike tubing chart site either, which made me sceptical. I've also emailed Reynolds more recently to try to confirm the legitimacy of the decal.

It will be enjoyed regardless.

Jim
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Postby familyguy » Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:25 am

Firstly, apologies for reviving an older thread purely for personal reasons...

BUT...the 'project' bike is finished. For now. The $$$ didnt stack up for getting it powdercoated, so I spread the back end at home with a wall stud and a chair and left it as is.

A couple of re-used bits (stem, seat post), plus some bought parts:
2006 Veloce 10sp groupset ($350 off the 'bay, and very lightly used), ShiftMate (on order from US $44, cheaper than replacing wheels at this stage), new Ritchey headset, new seat ($10 LBS contra) and bars (another $10 LBS 'thanks for taking these away from us' deal).

I probaby wont run it with the Ksyriums on it forever, I'll keep my eyes out for a different wheels for it to take the Campy 10 speed cassette sitting in the cupboard.

Ignore the crappy quill pedals. They'll get replaced with some Look's once I source a decent cheap pair so I only need one pair of shoes for the roadies.

Jim

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