My Helmet saved me the other day

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby il padrone » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:53 pm

Oxford wrote:My questions are thus:

  • Do the anti MHL proponents drive cars without wearing seat belts or ask for them to be removed?
  • Do the anti MHL proponents ask for ABS on their motor vehicles to be disabled?
  • Do the anti MHL proponents ask for SRS (eg air bags) on their motor vehicles to be disabled?
Just curious, some are compulsory, some not, but all could save you, but more often than not just a waste of time, money, effort, etc if you are really really careful.

All such comparison questions are irrelevant. None of these factors for drivers pose any sort of disincentive to driving. Just talking to a few non-cyclists about the idea of riding a bike and you'll pretty soon hear the problem and disincentive of helmets (amongst other things) looming.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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by BNA » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:56 pm

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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby il padrone » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:56 pm

wombatK wrote:[Homo sapiens has evolved over nearly 200,000 years - and we've been riding bicycles for not even
100 years. So I'd really like to know just how and why our bodies were "designed" to react and fall
safely from 25 km/hr.

Run along nice and quick one day. Trip over a log. See what happens to your arms..... all without any conscious thought! :idea:
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby damhooligan » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:04 pm

cavebear2 wrote:Hmmm....a lot's happened here in my 8 hour absence......thanks for alerting me Hooli!
:| :| :| :) :) :x :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:



Its ok... :mrgreen:
The dutch have one word to describe the aussie MHL, this word is ;
SCHIJNVEILIGHEID !!
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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby cavebear2 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:45 pm

human909 wrote:Hmm..... I've had 1000s of days of riding under my belt and not once has a helmet saved me. Should I start a new thread every time this occurs? Rather than blaming your tyres or praising your helmet how about you consider riding in a fashion that doesn't end up with you coming off your bike?

Thanks for taking my circumstances which you know very little about out of context. I guess it's impossible to understand the context since it's only words being posted and most of the message is lost. This is the basis behind a comment I've made on a few occasions on this forum: That much of the rant and rave in many threads on this forum are a complete waste of time as words only constitute 7% of our message and therefore interpreting them without a face to face discussion often results in misinterpretation and a war of words that leads nowhere.

AMEN
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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby cavebear2 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:10 pm

il padrone wrote:One thing about helmets is that they do increase the mass of your head (slightly) and the diameter of it also - both of which make an impact with the road that much more likely. Not to mention the fact that you may act to hold your head up or otherwise protect it that much more without the helmet.
Mass increase = in the order of 5 to 8 %.
I am still recovering from moderate concussion. It is my assessment that I would be recovering from a lot more if I didn't have a helmet on. Admittedly, the diesel on the road which I strongly suspect was the main cause is a risk factor that I hadn't taken into account. The road was dry and I have no previous experience of such risk factors as most of my riding in the Metro area is on shared use paths or low traffic roads. This is my commute route and 250m of high traffic road can't be avoided (without riding along a double gee infested verge) Given that a set of traffic lights is situated in the centre of this short leg I am able to mitigate my risk by choosing the timing of my take off etc.

In summation I've learned a lesson about hidden risks on the road and will modify my behaviour accordingly. I would hope that even the 'god like authorities' that frequent these forums would still retain the ability to learn as well as preach. :wink:
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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby trailgumby » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:07 pm

Glad you're OK, CB, and not cut up too badly.

I agree that helmets do help, up to a point, and I'll continue wearing one.

However, my cousin was wearing his helmet when he had a simple clipstack at the beginning of this year. He hit a pine cone at slow speed, and didn't unclip from his road pedals fast enough, the kind of silly thing that happens to most of us at some stage. He hit his head, and that was it. Gone. I still tear up whenever I think about it (like now).

I think it's important not to be under any illusions about how much protection they offer. 15-18mm of crush space isn't a whole lot. Better than nothing I suppose, but not as much as some folks seem to think.
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby Nobody » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:23 pm

trailgumby wrote:However, my cousin was wearing his helmet when he had a simple clipstack at the beginning of this year. He hit a pine cone at slow speed, and didn't unclip from his road pedals fast enough, the kind of silly thing that happens to most of us at some stage. He hit his head, and that was it. Gone.
:shock: Sorry to hear it. When you wrote of it earlier I assumed he died of cancer, heart attack, stroke or something more medical (as he was older).

Are road shoes (like SPD-SL) harder to unclip than SPDs? I was just about to buy some. I saw the video below by chance and it appears I may have a similar problem. The sport medicine guy (at about 4:00) said SPDs are not the best if you want to start adjusting for problems.

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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby trailgumby » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:53 pm

No, he struck his head. Lungs kidneys and liver donated. Unfortunately heart gets damaged when the other bits are removed or that would have been used as well. He was in perfect health.

I've never used road pedals but I understand more force is typically required to exit.
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:47 pm

human909 wrote:Are you kidding me? Our bodies and reactions are designed to protect the head from falls. My body performed admirably when I had my 25kph low side spill onto brickwork. The fact that my head didn't hit the ground (despite my hips and shoulders) is testament to this protection.


Sorry Human but I am having a hard time to take your arguments as arguments made in good faith. :roll:

And though you were presumably not trying to be rude to Cavebear I think that after seeing that video you may feel the inclination to rescind the comment and it's implication in stating
human909 wrote:... I'm also not naive enough to think single vehicle accidents just occur through no fault of the rider."
Unless just be by being on a bike under any circumstances is a fault. :?
Last edited by ColinOldnCranky on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:06 am

human909 wrote:Hmm..... I've had 1000s of days of riding under my belt and not once has a helmet saved me. Should I start a new thread every time this occurs? Rather than blaming your tyres or praising your helmet how about you consider riding in a fashion that doesn't end up with you coming off your bike?


Actually after reading this and more of your earlier posts here I am not even sure that you were NOT trying to be rude. So, against my better nature I too will put my cranky hat on for a moment.

fyi Cavebear does an impossible distance every year so it is quite a reasonable expectation that he will come unstuck sometime. By my reckoning he does around 1500 hrs a year though I suspect with a little more reality in his assessment of the risks and less claim to being impervious to them.

Thanks for the post Perry. It is unfortunate that sometimes we cannot see past our own dogma to simple messages and that people may question good motives but hopefully most will still see the message. I trust that you are still otherwise in good health and will soon be out there riding but without rushing it. A concussion is not something to be taken lightly.
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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby wombatK » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:40 am

trailgumby wrote:I've never used road pedals but I understand more force is typically required to exit.

From my limited experience - one stack with SPD (OTB) and one recent stack (over the
GLW) with brand new ultegra SPD-SL's, the latter are much more difficult to get out of when
lying on the road. The SPD's released while in the air, one side of my SPD-SL's didn't.

The SPD-SL's are very stiff when brand new (even with tension wound right to minimum), but
seem to loosen after a few rides. In everyday riding, the SPD's are easier to get out of,
and being double sided makes them a bit easier to get into. SPD-SL's have a larger
contact area with your shoe, and that makes them more comfortable, and a bit
easier to ride on if you miss the clip-in.
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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby lturner » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:09 pm

cavebear2 wrote:I know I don't need to preach to the converted which is probably most of you but this post is for anyone who rides with no helmet....

On Monday I had just started my commute home and was doing my normal quick sprint along a 250m section of Kewdale Rd. This is one of the busiest roads in Perth with constant heavy traffic during the hours of daylight. It has lots of heavy haulage vehicles along it together with commercial vehicles plus other domestic traffic.
Anyway, there was a gap in the traffic so I sprinted to turn right into Miles Rd. The oncoming traffic was still about 400m away. My cornering technique was OK I thought and I definitely didn't touch any brakes, but down I went at about 25kmh right into the middle of Kewdale Rd. Bashed my helmet & all the usual bits ie. knees, hip, shoulder. All seems relatively OK except for the Helmet - I threw it in the bin as harness had detached and the foam was cracked all the way through near the area of impact. It was 5 years old and looking a bit shabby so I was thinking of tossing it anyway.

Things happened very quickly of course and my 1st instinct was obviously to get off the road out of the way of the oncoming trucks etc.
I was interested that both Brifters were bent and scratched on the tops, so the front wheel must have come around at right angles. I'm suspecting that there was some oil/rubber on the road that I couldn't see. Conditions were dry. I have since replaced the rear tyre which was a Conti 4000S, the wear dimples were almost gone. The front tyre still has plenty of rubber, it's a Gatorskin though - not sure If I should replace it as it is about 5 years old?


That's me.

Thanks very much for your post. It really reinforced to me some of the dangers of riding at high speeds in heavy traffic. I'll continue to ride (without helmet of course) my short trips at slow speeds in low/no traffic areas. And I'll continue to be at orders of magnitude less risk of a head injury (or any sort of injury) than people who ride in the way you describe.
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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby wombatK » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:54 pm

lturner wrote:Thanks very much for your post. It really reinforced to me some of the dangers of riding at high speeds in heavy traffic. I'll continue to ride (without helmet of course) my short trips at slow speeds in low/no traffic areas. And I'll continue to be at orders of magnitude less risk of a head injury (or any sort of injury) than people who ride in the way you describe.

lturner's has made about 111 posts in just over one year on BNA, and virtually everyone of them is about railing against helmet wearing, and none of them make any more sense than this specious claim.

When's it going to be time to lock this thread and put the helmet wearing debate back in the one and only helmet thread,
where most of lturners posts live ?
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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby lturner » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:13 pm

wombatK wrote:
lturner wrote:Thanks very much for your post. It really reinforced to me some of the dangers of riding at high speeds in heavy traffic. I'll continue to ride (without helmet of course) my short trips at slow speeds in low/no traffic areas. And I'll continue to be at orders of magnitude less risk of a head injury (or any sort of injury) than people who ride in the way you describe.

lturner's has made about 111 posts in just over one year on BNA, and virtually everyone of them is about railing against helmet wearing, and none of them make any more sense than this specious claim.

When's it going to be time to lock this thread and put the helmet wearing debate back in the one and only helmet thread,
where most of lturners posts live ?


Ah yes, the ad hominem. So much easier than actually making a convincing argument why you think the comments are specious, hey wombatK?
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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby human909 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:06 pm

cavebear2 wrote:
human909 wrote:Rather than blaming your tyres or praising your helmet how about you consider riding in a fashion that doesn't end up with you coming off your bike?

Thanks for taking my circumstances which you know very little about out of context.

How am I doing that? You were involved in a single vehicle accident. If you don't consider that it is your fault and you don't learn from the experience then you are foolish.

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
human909 wrote:Are you kidding me? Our bodies and reactions are designed to protect the head from falls. My body performed admirably when I had my 25kph low side spill onto brickwork. The fact that my head didn't hit the ground (despite my hips and shoulders) is testament to this protection.


Sorry Human but I am having a hard time to take your arguments as arguments made in good faith. :roll:

And though you were presumably not trying to be rude to Cavebear I think that after seeing that video you may feel the inclination to rescind the comment and it's implication in stating
human909 wrote:... I'm also not naive enough to think single vehicle accidents just occur through no fault of the rider."
Unless just be by being on a bike under any circumstances is a fault. :?

I'm not sure what your point is here. Are you suggesting Cavebear hit black ice?
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Re: My Helmet saved me the other day

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:19 pm

You figure it out. I am not certain that anyone else is gonna be able to do it for you.
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