Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police only?

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby Oxford » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:14 am

wombatK wrote:
Oxford wrote:exactly and what about premises alarms with flashing blue lights, will they make people think cry wolf as well?

So you can't tell the difference between a stationary blue light and a mobile one ? And you also miss the distinction
between a light designed to operate very infrequently and one that will be operated intentionally for hours per day ?

Fortunately, motorists have no difficulty with that and alarm lighting hasn't blunted the effectiveness
of police emergency lights. The use of blue flashing lights on bicycles has as its sole purpose the intention to
mimic and thereby blunt the effectiveness of emergency vehicle lights.

Whether legal or not, you will be making a pest of yourself and giving police and motorists more reason to be
unsympathetic to cyclists.

so blue flashing lights only ever operate on moving vehicles? refer previous posts for how Qld police cars are used in road works - stationary vehicles (and often unattended). talk about blunting the effectiveness of blue lights.

the small percentage of motorists this strategy targets don't need reasons to hate cyclists, they already do. but if doing something like this causes them to second guess or back off momentarily from their normal hateful actions, then objective achieved. if they choose to ignore any blue lights from then on in, they do so at their peril. personally I don't see an issue as I cannot see hordes of cyclists rushing out to arm themselves with blue lights. I've used blue firefly lights myself to great effect.

RonK, LMAO, was waiting for someone to post them up, a staple for a thread like this.
Building more roads to prevent congestion is like a fat man loosening his belt to prevent obesity.
- Lewis Mumford
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4927
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

by BNA » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:41 am

BNA
 

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby il padrone » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:41 am

GraemeL wrote:I think motorists would be able to tell the difference between a bike and a police vehicle.

Having seen such lights in use on bikes while I've been driving - at a distance, well no. At first I thought it was police (they had no red tail-light, only the blue*, so definitely illegal)


* This is the real problem - most such cool cats will not bother with two tail-lights but just run the blue, flashing like a copper.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18251
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby wombatK » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:47 am

GraemeL wrote:[
We are talking about the Fiber Flares and if the blue one is under the top tube, for side visibility and the red is on the rear, what is the problem?
How are you "making a pest of yourself" for simply wanting to be seen?

Your end goal does not justify your means. You will cause disruption to motorists who are obliged to
make way for emergency vehicles. If an emergency vehicle approaches an intersection with
a blue flashing light, a motorist is obliged to give way (even when they have a green light); are you
going to ride your bicycle through the intersection against a red light when they give way like
that ? That's at least being a pest, at worst, it's suicidal.

If you want motorists to be obliged to give way to cyclists, then man-up and campaign for that openly
- don't do it surreptitiously by mis-using blue flashing lights.

If you simply want to be seen, there are numerous bicycle legal head-lights and tail-lights (ayups etc.,.)
that are more than adequate for the purpose. If you get a high powered head-light, you will
quickly realise that they give so much advance warning of your approach that, like on cars (which
have no such side visibility lighting), you need nothing else.
WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
User avatar
wombatK
 
Posts: 5202
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
Location: Yagoona, AU

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby Oxford » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:58 am

wombatK wrote:
GraemeL wrote:[
We are talking about the Fiber Flares and if the blue one is under the top tube, for side visibility and the red is on the rear, what is the problem?
How are you "making a pest of yourself" for simply wanting to be seen?

Your end goal does not justify your means. You will cause disruption to motorists who are obliged to
make way for emergency vehicles. If an emergency vehicle approaches an intersection with
a blue flashing light, a motorist is obliged to give way (even when they have a green light); are you
going to ride your bicycle through the intersection against a red light when they give way like
that ? That's at least being a pest, at worst, it's suicidal.

If you want motorists to be obliged to give way to cyclists, then man-up and campaign for that openly
- don't do it surreptitiously by mis-using blue flashing lights.

If you simply want to be seen, there are numerous bicycle legal head-lights and tail-lights (ayups etc.,.)
that are more than adequate for the purpose. If you get a high powered head-light, you will
quickly realise that they give so much advance warning of your approach that, like on cars (which
have no such side visibility lighting), you need nothing else.

crap, you've unearthed the real intention. we all want to run red lights and disrupt the fabric of society. methinks you're starting to read something into this that is clearly not intended. last time I rode a bike, motorised vehicles clearly outpaced me. there was clearly no possible way that I could have been mistaken for an emergency vehicle in a hurry, YMMV. if however on approaching an intersection other road users are made to actually think about their actions and put some care in to their actions (ie actually observe the road rules as they pertain to all users), then no harm IMO, actually makes for a safer environment for all. again YMMV.
Building more roads to prevent congestion is like a fat man loosening his belt to prevent obesity.
- Lewis Mumford
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4927
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby GraemeL » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:02 am

if the fiber flares are mounted as I said, then anyone travelling towards the rider would only see the front light and and the glow of the blue, from the rear they would see the red and the glow from the blue, from the side they will see the blue.

There is no way anyone would be confused and if you were then you shouldn't be on the road because you need glasses.

For the record, I have 4 fiber flares, all red and know what light they put out and how visible they are when mounted on the bike in various positions.

Graeme
***Looking For Information About Bicycle Cameras ***

* Bicycle Camera FAQ's *** Mounting FAQ’s & DIY Mounts *
GraemeL
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:47 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby find_bruce » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:30 am

Why stop at lights, why not add a two tone siren as well - or are you content with riding along going "eeee awww eeee awww"
Image
User avatar
find_bruce
 
Posts: 3635
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby cp123 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:19 pm

I rode with a blue flashing rear light for YEARS and never got pulled up by the coppers for it - and i reckon i had dozens of cop cars see me and pass me with it on. I also used multiple red ones as well (ensuring I was legal). It was exactly the same as a red flasher but had blue glass on it. I just hoped it stood out that little bit more so that duckhead drivers asleep at the wheel might've seen in.


But i lost it somewhere. :( I would put it on again today if i found it.
cp123
 
Posts: 996
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:50 pm

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby wombatK » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:41 pm

Oxford wrote:crap

How can we deny the merit of your argument when your argument is so erudite ? It will be
a very sad day when offensive language is going to win an argument.
Oxford wrote: methinks you're starting to read something into this that is clearly not intended.

So let's never think about the unintended consequences. Doesn't matter how bad they will be,
just think of yourself and to hell with the rest of the world ? Is that your logic here ?
Oxford wrote:
last time I rode a bike, motorised vehicles clearly outpaced me. there was clearly no possible way that I could have been mistaken for an emergency vehicle in a hurry

Maybe emergency vehicles run against red lights at 50 kph plus in your state, but here in NSW, most come to an almost
complete standstill before proceeding into an intersection - no doubt to make sure they are seen and other drivers have stopped appropriately. It's very possible you can be moving at a speed that would be mistaken for an emergency vehicle.

Just like it's very possible that bright LED highlights can leave both cyclists and motorists unsure if they're approaching a
motor bike.
Oxford wrote:
actually makes for a safer environment for all

Have the police cyclists in your state realised this ? If not, maybe they really ought to get with it and put
flashing blue lights on their bicycles. Surely, it's an OH&S issue they really ought to be concerned about.

But wait, then you might be confused with police cyclists responding to a genuine emergency situation. Yep, you've
really thought this one through, haven't you ?
WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
User avatar
wombatK
 
Posts: 5202
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
Location: Yagoona, AU

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby Oxford » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:54 pm

wombatK wrote:
Oxford wrote:crap

How can we deny the merit of your argument when your argument is so erudite ? It will be
a very sad day when offensive language is going to win an argument.
Oxford wrote: methinks you're starting to read something into this that is clearly not intended.

So let's never think about the unintended consequences. Doesn't matter how bad they will be,
just think of yourself and to hell with the rest of the world ? Is that your logic here ?
Oxford wrote:
last time I rode a bike, motorised vehicles clearly outpaced me. there was clearly no possible way that I could have been mistaken for an emergency vehicle in a hurry

Maybe emergency vehicles run against red lights at 50 kph plus in your state, but here in NSW, most come to an almost
complete standstill before proceeding into an intersection - no doubt to make sure they are seen and other drivers have stopped appropriately. It's very possible you can be moving at a speed that would be mistaken for an emergency vehicle.

Just like it's very possible that bright LED highlights can leave both cyclists and motorists unsure if they're approaching a
motor bike.
Oxford wrote:
actually makes for a safer environment for all

Have the police cyclists in your state realised this ? If not, maybe they really ought to get with it and put
flashing blue lights on their bicycles. Surely, it's an OH&S issue they really ought to be concerned about.

But wait, then you might be confused with police cyclists responding to a genuine emergency situation. Yep, you've
really thought this one through, haven't you ?

easy to pick one word out of a response and use that as the basis for your response, the word was used in a wider context that you have failed to acknowledge. I was not calling your response crap, I was lamenting that you had seen through our attempt at destroying society. I suggest you reread my response.

going by the conversations I've had with police cycle cops, they are treated with the same disrespect as any normal cyclist, despite their obvious uniform and gear (including flashing blue lights). but hey its all our fault for using blue lights isn't it? we've watered down the effectiveness and impact of the blue light. sorry but I am really struggling to see how you can link all these issues to some cyclists using blue lights. based on your line of reasoning blue light usage should be banned entirely by non emergency vehicles lest some poor person mistakenly see a blue light flashing or otherwise and mistake it for what it is clearly not.

at the end of the day it is clearly not illegal. if it was considered such a serious issue by the authorities as you seem to think it is, it would be illegal.
Building more roads to prevent congestion is like a fat man loosening his belt to prevent obesity.
- Lewis Mumford
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4927
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby il padrone » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:12 pm

Oxford wrote: based on your line of reasoning blue light usage should be banned entirely by non emergency vehicles lest some poor person mistakenly see a blue light flashing or otherwise and mistake it for what it is clearly not.

Well they have :idea: Just, as you've pointed out, not for bicycle use.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18251
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby Oxford » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:15 pm

il padrone wrote:
Oxford wrote: based on your line of reasoning blue light usage should be banned entirely by non emergency vehicles lest some poor person mistakenly see a blue light flashing or otherwise and mistake it for what it is clearly not.

Well they have :idea: Just, as you've pointed out, not for bicycle use.

I mean entirely, ie premises alarms, night clubs, home, everywhere. you just never know when someone might get confused should they inadvertently see a reflected blue light as they are driving their motor vehicle along the road.
Building more roads to prevent congestion is like a fat man loosening his belt to prevent obesity.
- Lewis Mumford
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4927
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby Cheesewheel » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:07 pm

find_bruce wrote:Why stop at lights, why not add a two tone siren as well - or are you content with riding along going "eeee awww eeee awww"

No need

I frequently get motorists hanging out of their windows making siren noises when I am only riding with two red fibre flares :|
GO!! Run!!! GAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!
User avatar
Cheesewheel
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: GoldCoast Qld

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby cp123 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:18 pm

On Friday night I got a "get off the farken road" yelled at me.... :roll: I guess it was just because I was the only vehicle he had to give way to....not! or that I was on a bike... :evil:
cp123
 
Posts: 996
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:50 pm

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby Cheesewheel » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:31 pm

cp123 wrote:On Friday night I got a "get off the farken road" yelled at me.... :roll: I guess it was just because I was the only vehicle he had to give way to....not! or that I was on a bike... :evil:

On the plus side, if motorists have the time to wind down their window and yell at you on your bike, it means they are at least seeing you ... what else can a cyclist do but dress the part

Image
GO!! Run!!! GAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!
User avatar
Cheesewheel
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: GoldCoast Qld

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby wombatK » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:58 pm

Oxford wrote: I am really struggling to see how you can link all these issues to some cyclists using blue lights. based on your line of reasoning blue light usage should be banned entirely by non emergency vehicles lest some poor person mistakenly see a blue light flashing or otherwise and mistake it for what it is clearly not.

at the end of the day it is clearly not illegal. if it was considered such a serious issue by the authorities as you seem to think it is, it would be illegal.

Maybe you might struggle less if you didn't minimize the consequences by limiting your field of view to "some" cyclists.
Think about what consequences that would follow if every cyclists or even 50% of cyclists used a flashing blue light.

Their use is clearly illegal on motor vehicles which aren't emergency vehicles. Those laws were written in times when a flashing
blue light required a much larger power supply than technology now requires. If there is currently no law or regulation prohibiting
their use (e.g. such as making a public nuisance), it wouldn't be the first time the laws needed to catch up with technology.

If enough cyclists used them and it couldn't be stopped by any other regulation or law, it wouldn't be long before the laws and regulations were amended to prohibit them. Anyone who chooses to use them in the meantime is living on borrowed time - and testing the patience of every motorist they dupe.

Should you want to test motorist patience, your comeuppance could be that your ambulance ride to the ER room is hindered
by motorists who think it's just another one of those fool cyclists.
WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
User avatar
wombatK
 
Posts: 5202
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
Location: Yagoona, AU

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby Oxford » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:28 pm

well you heard it here first, the end of the world is nigh. damn those pesky cyclists, how selfish of them.
Building more roads to prevent congestion is like a fat man loosening his belt to prevent obesity.
- Lewis Mumford
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4927
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby il padrone » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:57 pm

Cue the forum safety recommendations.

Are you advising cyclists should or should not run blue tail-lights with the red??
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18251
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby Oxford » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:50 am

il padrone wrote:Cue the forum safety recommendations.

Are you advising cyclists should or should not run blue tail-lights with the red??

I think cyclists at the very least should comply with the law. Then do anything legally allowed to enhance their visible presence from there.

if you think blue lights are bad, then don't look at this link:

http://www.visiblebiker.com/

you can make bright pictures in your wheel(s) (blue is included).
Building more roads to prevent congestion is like a fat man loosening his belt to prevent obesity.
- Lewis Mumford
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4927
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby GraemeL » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:59 am

Oxford wrote:I think cyclists at the very least should comply with the law. Then do anything legally allowed to enhance their visible presence from there.

if you think blue lights are bad, then don't look at this link:

http://www.visiblebiker.com/

you can make bright pictures in your wheel(s) (blue is included).


There a couple of these available, one even lets you design your own text etc to display.

Graeme
***Looking For Information About Bicycle Cameras ***

* Bicycle Camera FAQ's *** Mounting FAQ’s & DIY Mounts *
GraemeL
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:47 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby Cheesewheel » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:37 pm

Just an update ...

I sent an inquiry to Qld Transport and they replied with the usual story about the basic requirements for riding at night (red reflector rear , white front, electric lights visible at 200 metres etc) and added ..."the use of other lights on a bicycle would be a a matter for police enforcement.".

Given that police enforcement on the subject is dictated by the transport authority (assuming that one doesn't hold up a service station with a bicycle light or whatever) I sent a reply asking on what authority (if not the transport authority) are they suggesting the police would do their enforcing.

Not hopeful of a straight answer ...
:roll:
GO!! Run!!! GAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!
User avatar
Cheesewheel
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: GoldCoast Qld

Re: Flashing blue and red lights for night riding - Police o

Postby Oxford » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:17 pm

Cheesewheel wrote:Just an update ...

I sent an inquiry to Qld Transport and they replied with the usual story about the basic requirements for riding at night (red reflector rear , white front, electric lights visible at 200 metres etc) and added ..."the use of other lights on a bicycle would be a a matter for police enforcement.".

Given that police enforcement on the subject is dictated by the transport authority (assuming that one doesn't hold up a service station with a bicycle light or whatever) I sent a reply asking on what authority (if not the transport authority) are they suggesting the police would do their enforcing.

Not hopeful of a straight answer ...
:roll:

I'm not surprised with that response, it was one like that response that a member of another forum received that started us (members of the other forum) researching the ins and outs of lights. you will not receive a straight answer, I'm sure of it.
Building more roads to prevent congestion is like a fat man loosening his belt to prevent obesity.
- Lewis Mumford
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4927
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Previous

Return to Cycling Safety and Advocacy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Mulger bill



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit