Red light running cyclists + crash
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Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby Ross » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:27 pm
This is from 2GB website, Ray Hadley was going on about it and how bad the cyclists were for going through the red light.
- il padrone
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby il padrone » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:05 pm
Yes, each cyclist should be responsible for themselves and follow road rules, but please, enough of the persecution !!
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby uncle arthur » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:13 pm
Call "STOPPING" and have the bunch stop safely, or
Call "ROLLING" and have the bunch go through risking the yellow.
Obviously there was no organisation in the bunch because the final riders weren't sure of what was happening and hence there was a nose to tail (not to mention the rider who crashed was actually looking at something off to his side, and not on his riding line.........)
But of course what would some radio/TV shock jock actually know about the dynamics of group riding in a single file?
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby il padrone » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:33 pm
Ah yes, you are correct, it was a tyre-clip rather than hard braking. But that all happened because the rider was looking sideways.... most likely concerned about, and distracted by, the tail-gating motor vehicle behind cutting in..... the vehicle carrying the camerauncle arthur wrote:Obviously there was no organisation in the bunch because the final riders weren't sure of what was happening and hence there was a nose to tail (not to mention the rider who crashed was actually looking at something off to his side, and not on his riding line.........)
This is all of course further contributed to by that insane Sydney intersection treatment - the S-lane with a terminating left lane - something we gladly don't have to deal with here in Melbourne.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby tallywhacker » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:32 pm
can you please explain how the car driver could be tail-gating when the group came from behind his car and he was already moving when they came byil padrone wrote:Ah yes, you are correct, it was a tyre-clip rather than hard braking. But that all happened because the rider was looking sideways.... most likely concerned about, and distracted by, the tail-gating motor vehicle behind cutting in..... the vehicle carrying the camerauncle arthur wrote:Obviously there was no organisation in the bunch because the final riders weren't sure of what was happening and hence there was a nose to tail (not to mention the rider who crashed was actually looking at something off to his side, and not on his riding line.........)
This is all of course further contributed to by that insane Sydney intersection treatment - the S-lane with a terminating left lane - something we gladly don't have to deal with here in Melbourne.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby r2160 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:36 pm
The first 4 cyclists weren't intimidated by the vehicle with the camera, and the last two I don't believe were worried about the vehicle, they just didn't want to lose their mates.
If you look carefully, the light goes orange, and the cyclists all had plenty of time to stop. They are more than two vehicle lengths from the lights (based on the white ute in front of them). They are also merging into the lane of the vehicle with the camera, so I dont believe they were intimidated by the vehicle with the camera. We ask motorists to be patient and give us room, but when we display ourselves like this, we don't do ourselves any favours.
cheers
Glenn
"Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever" Lance Armstrong
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby il padrone » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:37 pm
As I said, I reckon such lanes are poor road design and a death-trap for cyclists, as shown by the results in this video.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby human909 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:00 pm
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby uncle arthur » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:42 pm
Well I'd say they are in a bunch because looking at their matching kit, they usually ride, train, and race together.....human909 wrote:A multitude of things contributed to this crash. It does go to highlight though the dangers of trying to ride in a slipstreaming bunch. I don't know why you would be gutter hugging & riding in a bunch like this.
But it's still an example of bad riding for the conditions. They were on the gas as the lights changed, but the tail end got caught.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby baabaa » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:04 pm
Just dumb to run an orange heading north at any time at this spot, but in the morning, just madness as you have two lanes turning right in front of you.
No need to use that route anyway as much better safer options to the east and west.
This section of road is one of areas most hostile and best to avoid unless you really know it well.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby zero » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:16 pm
The camera is mounted on a HGV (probably a bus), and the riders are left passing that moving HGV which is narrowing the space. The last rider is feeling pressure of the space closing, and is thus riding faster to clear, and gets far too close to the rider ahead, and then touches wheels and gets sprawled in front of a HGV. Sprawling in front of a HGV is something you take extra precautions to NOT DO. ie if you have to race to beat a HGV to a gap, then you are about to make a mistake.
IMO the rest of the bunch were not showing a good lookout in a lane change situation as cars changing lanes over the nose of a HGV is a pretty common happening, and neither party can know the other is there without looking after passing the HGV.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:41 pm
All I see is one cyclist doing what looks like a conventional head check that you would do before moving over to overtake. And seeing as he is the cyclist riding a fair bit faster than the prevailing speed and certainly faster than the riders to his front then that is probably what he was doing. It seems to me therefore that the errant and unfortunate rider was simply looking for the opportunity to either run the red light or to gain an extra position.
I couldn't even make a compelling case that the driver was being uncooperative in not letting riders in front of him take the front position. The video clearly shows that those riders were travelling faster than he was and by the time of the incident were separating further from the car. And the apparent ease and control of the cars braking indicates that the "tailgating driver" was preparing to stop and/or that he was driving well within safe limits.
I think you may be trying a bit too hard to arrive at a particular conclusion. I've seen you do better.
I note from the garb that the riders seem to be a group. I think in those circumstances it is incumbent on the leaders to always approach a possible red-light with slower than normal speed as though the last riders are a part of them. In effect as though they themselves are a 10 metre long bike in which the back end of the bike is the bit that has to be considered when judging if you can get through a controlled intersection.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:57 pm
That is a common intersection treatment in NSW? Surprised the side of the road isn't littered with crushed vehicles.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby trailgumby » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:26 pm
I always feel nervous going through them, but have to say I've never once been squeezed by a motorist. They've all been good with letting me merge with plenty of room. The key is to look assertive and confident I think. That the lane is wide there probably helps.
Will check vid when I get home.... can't see here.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby gururug » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:37 pm
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby thomashouseman » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:43 pm
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby arand18 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:09 pm
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby jimsheedy » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:15 pm
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:00 pm
This. If smokeboxers took off the blinkers and bollocked each others naughties the way many of us do to each other here the roads would be a lot more than a damn sight saferOxford wrote:(too close to home as well)
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby skull » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:18 pm
Wait what, are we looking at the same video.il padrone wrote:. most likely concerned about, and distracted by, the tail-gating motor vehicle behind cutting in..... the vehicle carrying the camera
The vehicle cutting in is the vehicle that is already in the lane and being undertaking by a bunch of cyclists cutting in from a different land and the vehicle is also leaving plenty of room.
But anyway go on.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby damhooligan » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:27 pm
Ross wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_WwwB6L ... r_embedded
This is from 2GB website, Ray Hadley was going on about it and how bad the cyclists were for going through the red light.
It may just be me, but I find this an amuzing accident..
I find this a classic case of what not to do when drafting...
Clearly the rider at the back stuffed it..
But...... he crashed before the lights, so he did not ran a red light and crashed.
He just crashed...
So I find the title rather misleading...
SCHIJNVEILIGHEID !!
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby trailgumby » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:28 pm
1: typical shock jock rubbish. All the cars that ran the orange broke the law as well.
2: Silly mistake that could easily have been catastrophic
3: I bumped into this guy on the way to the Taronga Zoo wharf road for hill repeats.. He didn't say much except to confirm he had an off when i asked after spotting the holes in his kit.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby il padrone » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:42 am
This I do not agree with (as a wise and viable road safety device)skull wrote:The vehicle cutting in is the vehicle that is already in the lane and being undertaking by a bunch of cyclists cutting in from a different land
S-lanes are crap. Gladly I do not see these on Melbourne's roads. The closest thing we have is a parking lane that runs out just before the intersection. Left hand traffic lanes should always continue through with clear priority (if you value the users of the kerb-side lane, usually the more vulnerable on the roads).
BTW, I do agree the actions of this particular bunch were unwise and foolish, but they should not be placed in such danger because of a dodgy road design.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby human909 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:45 am
(I can see from the video a lane disappearing at the intersection which is weird considering intersections are a bottleneck anyway.)
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash
Postby il padrone » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:59 am
In Melbourne to provide space for right-turn only lanes we either widen the road at the intersection, have the lane-width to narrow the lanes a little, or have a parking lane that ceases before the intersection. Regardless of the method, if you are in the left-most lane you virtually always can count on a clear run through an intersection (other traffic permitting). In general I believe we are lucky enough to have a wider basic road design in Melbourne.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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