Red light running cyclists + crash

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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby il padrone » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:59 am

Yes, that disappearing left lane is the result of them. I believe they are called S-lanes because that is the path the two right lanes follow, a flat S-shape to curve around right-turn-only lanes at intersections. The left lane disappears to allow room, and vehicles in that lane are required to give way. I remember hearing a lot of complaints about them from Sydney riders in the '90s

In Melbourne to provide space for right-turn only lanes we either widen the road at the intersection, have the lane-width to narrow the lanes a little, or have a parking lane that ceases before the intersection. Regardless of the method, if you are in the left-most lane you virtually always can count on a clear run through an intersection (other traffic permitting). In general I believe we are lucky enough to have a wider basic road design in Melbourne.
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by BNA » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:51 am

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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby zero » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:51 am

il padrone wrote:Yes, that disappearing left lane is the result of them. I believe they are called S-lanes because that is the path the two right lanes follow, a flat S-shape to curve around right-turn-only lanes at intersections. The left lane disappears to allow room, and vehicles in that lane are required to give way. I remember hearing a lot of complaints about them from Sydney riders in the '90s

In Melbourne to provide space for right-turn only lanes we either widen the road at the intersection, have the lane-width to narrow the lanes a little, or have a parking lane that ceases before the intersection. Regardless of the method, if you are in the left-most lane you virtually always can count on a clear run through an intersection (other traffic permitting). In general I believe we are lucky enough to have a wider basic road design in Melbourne.


aye - the correct road design is to resume structures or space on the cheapest side of the road, and redo the lanes such that you both have the turn pockets and all the regular lanes. That has kinda been recognised here (with their pinchpoint strategy), but not a lot of actual work has been done to fix these. The worst problem is that the lane that ends is also the bus lane, which means that spacewasters in cars are perpetually blocking the space efficient.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby il padrone » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:11 pm

I guess we start off with wider road lanes to begin with and it is possible to trim the lanes enough to give space for right turns, together with removing on-street parking close to the intersection - like here on Burwood Rd, Hawthorn.

Notice also how Glenferrie Rd is not wide enough, so there is no dedicated right-turn lane, drivers just have to turn from the existing lane and there is often just one lane to get through in.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby martinjs » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:59 pm

Oxford wrote:there's no doubt the situation was avoidable. just as red lights will eventually go green, its inevitable that a green light goes red. if this group knew the route having ridden it previously or regularly, they should be aware of the issues and what to do when the group is split (and allow the group to split for safety reasons). poor road design (or execution of a good design) doesn't help the matter either. these guys should think themselves lucky the outcome was so relatively minor given what could have happened.

as for the shock jock and the person capturing the video, do either or both discuss the preponderance or post the video of motor vehicles running red lights? probably not, it would occupy too much time and be too shocking (too close to home as well). shocking given that when a motor vehicle runs a red light, the damage that can be caused is monumentally at a larger scale than what a cyclist could ever cause or do. and the motor vehicle driver may not even suffer an injury in the process, unlike the cyclist which will quite often end up getting some level of medical care.



Do cyclist who carry video cameras post on car sites showing cyclist going through lights? Seems it's ok for cyclist to ping motorist for doing the wrong thing but it's not ok the other way around.
Strange that! 8)

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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby csy75 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:12 pm

i post cyclists running red's on my channel

cyclist runs red...


car runs red...
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby PawPaw » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:06 pm

I often cycle through red lights, because my bike doesn't trigger the light to change to green.

The last guy is an idiot. He shouldn't have been right up on his mate's wheel or aligned with it, in that situation.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby il padrone » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:26 pm

PawPaw wrote:I often cycle through red lights, because my bike doesn't trigger the light to change to green.

In most cases, in the city or suburbs in daytime or evening this is never a major problem. I stop, and wait for the green, for safety and plain common sense.

At 11.30pm at night or 5am things may be different.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby Oxford » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:42 pm

martinjs wrote:
Oxford wrote:there's no doubt the situation was avoidable. just as red lights will eventually go green, its inevitable that a green light goes red. if this group knew the route having ridden it previously or regularly, they should be aware of the issues and what to do when the group is split (and allow the group to split for safety reasons). poor road design (or execution of a good design) doesn't help the matter either. these guys should think themselves lucky the outcome was so relatively minor given what could have happened.

as for the shock jock and the person capturing the video, do either or both discuss the preponderance or post the video of motor vehicles running red lights? probably not, it would occupy too much time and be too shocking (too close to home as well). shocking given that when a motor vehicle runs a red light, the damage that can be caused is monumentally at a larger scale than what a cyclist could ever cause or do. and the motor vehicle driver may not even suffer an injury in the process, unlike the cyclist which will quite often end up getting some level of medical care.



Do cyclist who carry video cameras post on car sites showing cyclist going through lights? Seems it's ok for cyclist to ping motorist for doing the wrong thing but it's not ok the other way around.
Strange that! 8)

Martin
Have a look at my Youtube channel, yes when I get the chance to show a cyclist do it, I post it.



fairly balance IMO, considering I think my channel only shows one or two red light running motor vehicles.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby PawPaw » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:35 pm

il padrone wrote:In most cases, in the city or suburbs in daytime or evening this is never a major problem. I stop, and wait for the green, for safety and plain common sense.

At 11.30pm at night or 5am things may be different.


I do it at times when you have to wait for a car to come along from behind to trigger the green.....and there isn't one within coo-ee....which is presumably more common in Brisbane than Melbourne.

I get tired with media, political, and police automatons who wouldn't even know some lights cannot be triggered by bicycles.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby il padrone » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:17 pm

Down here, in daylight hours virtually all traffic lights are on a time rotation ie. pretty soon the lights will change for you. The other trick, for lights working on a sensor cable, is knowing where to stop in relation to the sensor wires in the pavement in order to switch them to green. If there is a sensor cable with cuts in the road, bicycles should trigger it (even aluminium and carbon bikes).

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If you've done this and the lights still cycle and miss you, it would be legal to proceed through the red on the basis that the lights are faulty. But don't leave it at that - report the fault to your Dept of Main Roads. No good leaving the road equipment faulty :wink: for other cyclists to suffer it. The more cyclists that report this, the more likely to get it fixed. Here in Melbourne Vicroads generally acts on such matters pretty promptly.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:40 pm

csy75 wrote:car runs red...


It is quite likely that he did not see the red chage. He is somewhat lower than the van in front.

Not that I am giving him a pass. Far from it. The fool is seriously tailgating. If he had been a respectable distance he certainly would have ssen it. And in tailgaitng there is so much more that he cannot see too. So, no, not a pass to the driver, I think the tailgating was far worse. (And it is still possible that he DID knowingly run the red.)
Last edited by ColinOldnCranky on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby PawPaw » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:43 pm

Some lights in Brisbane don't seem to react to anything we've tried - three guys across lifting and dropping weight.

Though valid point about reporting them. Suppose that is a little defence if ever I am fined.
Though I'd presume the Qld Transport or Bris City Council would already know which lights are capable of what.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby jimsheedy » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:12 pm

Does anyone honestly think that if the cyclists stopped running red lights, Dingbats like Ray Hadley would all of a sudden stop hanging showtime on cyclists?
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:26 pm

Of course not but we as a group don't have to make it easy for the knuckledraggers.
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