The 2012 TdF dopers thread

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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby greyhoundtom » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:45 am

BRLVR.v2 wrote:So what's the deal with the ozone use and cofidis rider?
Anyone know what that stuff does for you?

The only therapeutic use that I can find for ozone is HERE.
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by BNA » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:15 am

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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby scotto » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:15 am

schleck BUSTED

Third behind his brother Andy and Cadel Evans last year, Schleck is alleged to have produced an "adverse analytical finding" from a sample taken on Friday.

The sport's governing body, the UCi, said Schleck's sample contained banned Xipamide.
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby biker jk » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:29 am

scotto wrote:schleck BUSTED

Third behind his brother Andy and Cadel Evans last year, Schleck is alleged to have produced an "adverse analytical finding" from a sample taken on Friday.

The sport's governing body, the UCi, said Schleck's sample contained banned Xipamide.


It's a diuretic and masking agent. The real question is what was Frank masking?
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby martinjs » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:18 pm

It's a diuretic and masking agent. The real question is what was Frank masking?


Ok, I've read quite a few stories regarding this doping thing with Frank but other than here no mention seems to have been made of it being a masking agent!
Just for my information, Please explain! Not really up on whats in and whats out regarding drug doping.

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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby philip » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:40 pm

martinjs wrote:Just for my information, Please explain! Not really up on whats in and whats out regarding drug doping.

British Journal of Pharmacology wrote:Diuretics are drugs that increase the rate of urine flow and sodium excretion to adjust the volume and composition of body fluids. There are several major categories of this drug class and the compounds vary greatly in structure, physicochemical properties, effects on urinary composition and renal haemodynamics, and site and mechanism of action. Diuretics are often abused by athletes to excrete water for rapid weight loss and to mask the presence of other banned substances. Because of their abuse by athletes, diuretics have been included on The World Anti-Doping Agency’s (WADA) list of prohibited substances; the use of diuretics is banned both in competition and out of competition and diuretics are routinely screened for by anti-doping laboratories. This review provides an overview of the pharmacology and toxicology of diuretics and discusses their application in sports. The most common analytical strategies currently followed by the anti-doping laboratories accredited by the WADA are discussed along with the challenges laboratories face for the analysis of this diverse class of drugs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2962812/
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby biker jk » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:04 pm

martinjs wrote:
It's a diuretic and masking agent. The real question is what was Frank masking?


Ok, I've read quite a few stories regarding this doping thing with Frank but other than here no mention seems to have been made of it being a masking agent!
Just for my information, Please explain! Not really up on whats in and whats out regarding drug doping.

Martin


The diuretic increases the volume of urine and so decreases the concentration of illegal substances, e.g. steriods.
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby sogood » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:11 pm

scotto wrote:schleck BUSTED

This is such a big disappointment for me when I read it on Twitter early this morning. Out of all people, Frank Schleck?!? It's signalling to me that doping is far from gone in cycling. Of course, we'll have to hear what the full story is. :|
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby hannos » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:24 pm

Apparently Fankie thinks he was poisoned...

Not sure how that is a defence?
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby sogood » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:37 pm

hannos wrote:Apparently Fankie thinks he was poisoned...
Not sure how that is a defence?

Obviously more information needed. :roll:
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby rogan » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:02 pm

hannos wrote:Apparently Fankie thinks he was poisoned...

Not sure how that is a defence?


I heard they found urine in his urine sample. This is a known side effect of taking diuretics.
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby biker jk » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:45 pm

Is this Evans' subtly implying Team Sky are doping? After all, he's never going to come out and outright accuse them of doping.

"Sky have just shown their strength, they've come out firing. They've got eight riders here, the seven of them riding on the front have just been incredible," he said last night, ahead of today's second rest day.

"Their performance in the time trial from their two leaders was also incredible. Their riders have all come on in the best form of their lives. They ride a continuous tempo that's leading the climbers pretty empty when they get to the final. It's making it difficult to do stuff."
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby Trev Campbell » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:06 pm

Yes I think very subtly, Strange that a team can get an entire team in the form of their lives, and have their team leader in the form of his life for 6 months !!!!!! But everyone is innocent until proven guilty and I hope Sky are clean and have just found a training regime that is just far far better than anything that the other teams have come up with, for the sake of cycling.
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby sogood » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:55 pm

Or it's Cadel's cry of despair. The Sky team is out classing everyone in the Olympic year. I wonder what else UK's national investment in sports will bring out? All will be revealed in coming weeks.
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby gdt » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:20 pm

I don't think Cadel is implying that. I think he has been badly caught out by the application of a higher level of professional athletic training techniques by Sky. What you are seeing with Sky is a rise in the ability of the mid-ranking guys, so Wiggins and Cadel don't duke it out one-on-one as would match Cadel's style. Personally, I think Wiggins would shatter like glass if tested day after day, but Sky won't give Cadel the opportunity to do that.

Not that this was anything people didn't see coming: Sky have been incredibly open -- even outrightly boasting -- about their training processes. So there are questions to be asked of BMC and Cadel as to why BMC lack the same depth as Sky. The ability to grow a team has always been Cadel's weakness, and it is hurting him again this year.
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby gdt » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:28 pm

sogood wrote:Out of all people, Frank Schleck?!? It's signalling to me that doping is far from gone in cycling.

Doping is most attractive when you are underperforming. So if Frank is doping it would fit the classic "David Millar" scenario.

Also, note the team management and medical advisors. Until they are gone, doping isn't gone. They will always be there to offer it to an athlete in their darkest moment.
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby clackers » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:35 pm

biker jk wrote:Is this Evans' subtly implying Team Sky are doping?


It's possible, JK, but perhaps we should take those words at face value - giving credit where credit's due.
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby sogood » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:39 pm

gdt wrote:The ability to grow a team has always been Cadel's weakness, and it is hurting him again this year.

"Growing a Team". Who has the greater responsibility and influence? Team management or team's top GC rider?
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby AndrewBurns » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:32 pm

Personally I don't think either Wiggins or Cadel have shown themselves to be super strong, they've both been left behind on climbs by their team mates and have seemed fragile, it's just that Wiggins always has a bulletproof team surrounding him while Cadel has one or at most two riders with him when it counts.

If anything is suspicious about the Sky team it's not any of their individual performances but the fact that so many of them are so strong all the time. I don't buy this miracle new training technique on some Spanish volcano. Training at altitude is as old as the hills, a huge amount of time and money is invested in sports science world-wide and I don't think it's possible to come up with something so much better than everyone else like they claim to.
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby greyhoundtom » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:33 pm

biker jk wrote:
scotto wrote:schleck BUSTED

Third behind his brother Andy and Cadel Evans last year, Schleck is alleged to have produced an "adverse analytical finding" from a sample taken on Friday.

The sport's governing body, the UCi, said Schleck's sample contained banned Xipamide.


It's a diuretic and masking agent. The real question is what was Frank masking?

Diuretic substances are extremely easy to detect in a urine sample.........so why would an experienced cyclist like Frank Schleck, who would clearly be aware of what substances would result in a positive swab, take an easily detected banned substance in order to mask something else?

That whole scenario does not make any sense to me at all. :?
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby biker jk » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:55 pm

greyhoundtom wrote:Diuretic substances are extremely easy to detect in a urine sample.........so why would an experienced cyclist like Frank Schleck, who would clearly be aware of what substances would result in a positive swab, take an easily detected banned substance in order to mask something else?

That whole scenario does not make any sense to me at all. :?


Possible blood infusion? So he withdrew blood before TdF which had diuretic (perhaps for weight loss) and re-infused during the TdF.
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby greyhoundtom » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:02 pm

That certainly is a possibility. :(
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:34 pm

I wouldn't read too much into what Cadel said, just take it at face value as that makes sense as well.

For Frank it is now up to the B-Sample to confirm or counter the first result, probably best to hold off and let it take it's course but if they are able to make a report on the first sample in four days, lets hope we don't have the painful dragging on dramas because a slow process then becomes part of the problem.
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby Sharkey » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:26 am

greyhoundtom wrote:
biker jk wrote:
scotto wrote:schleck BUSTED



It's a diuretic and masking agent. The real question is what was Frank masking?

Diuretic substances are extremely easy to detect in a urine sample.........so why would an experienced cyclist like Frank Schleck, who would clearly be aware of what substances would result in a positive swab, take an easily detected banned substance in order to mask something else?

That whole scenario does not make any sense to me at all. :?


Maybe he wants to get out of the rest of the tour :wink:
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby find_bruce » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:37 am

scotto wrote:schleck BUSTED
biker jk wrote:It's a diuretic and masking agent. The real question is what was Frank masking?
greyhoundtom wrote:Diuretic substances are extremely easy to detect in a urine sample.........so why would an experienced cyclist like Frank Schleck, who would clearly be aware of what substances would result in a positive swab, take an easily detected banned substance in order to mask something else?

That whole scenario does not make any sense to me at all. :?
Sharkey wrote:Maybe he wants to get out of the rest of the tour :wink:

Thanks for clearing that up Sharkey - no way would Bruyneel let a Schlonk brother abandon again :)
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Re: The 2012 TdF dopers thread

Postby exadios » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:33 pm

I'm surprised that some of the teams are not sponsored by drug manufacturers.
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