2012 Tour de France

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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby twizzle » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:16 am

maryusdemetry wrote:Is this the end of his road? A man of his age..


At the most, he might have lost 1% VO2Max in the last year. The studies suggest that for athletes under 70, the rate is 6% per decade. "Age" cannot be blamed for his loss of form this year, although his age means he's giving a fair bit away to the younger riders... but he had a lot to start with given that he had the highest VO2Max ever measured at the AIS.

It will be interesting to see what W/kg numbers the anti-doping crowd come up with this year for Cadel, his performance has always been considered the benchmark for 'clean'.
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by BNA » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:09 am

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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby clackers » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:09 am

twizzle wrote:At the most, he might have lost 1% VO2Max in the last year. The studies suggest that for athletes under 70, the rate is 6% per decade.


If that corresponded with a 1% drop in performance, he's giving away more than 30 seconds on a time trial.

That he was the oldest postwar winner may be revealing. Last year was unusual. Age finally counts against champions, no matter how good.

It may be that power drops off considerably, too.

Stuart O'Grady thought so when asked about his condition before this year's Paris-Roubaix compared to when he won it.
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby jules21 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:10 am

The_Eggman wrote:Cadel
His whole season has been a little down on last season. I was hoping he was foxing somewhat, but he just didn't seem to have the legs this year. I personally doubt he'll win another yellow. Guys like Voigt and Horner have proven you can still be a factor for years to come, but winning GC at the TdF? Just can't see it.

Rather than despair though, I'd rather rejoice in the fact he won the bloody thing last year. Even if he never wins another race or stage, it's a truely phenomenal career he's put togther.

Rather than another tour, I'd probably like to see him set himself for the Giro (where the terrain should suit him better) or maybe even a big classics season next year.

i'm more optimistic than that. cadel has had a rough season - i suspect his sinus infection may have had a bigger impact on his preparation than he let on. if you look at the last two Tour winners, they've had very clean preparations (i'm hesitant to go back further than that). there's no obvious reason why it can't all fall into place again next year.

although he will start losing some of the raw endurance capacity to younger opponents, you can't underestimate the value of experience in this race, nor his ability to stay out of trouble. it only takes one mistake and a heavy favorite can be knocked out of contention.

most people thought he could not win the 2011 race and he proved them all wrong. i'll be cheering him on next year.
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby Peacewise » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:22 pm

PawPaw wrote:I was happy with Sky's TdF performance. It proved Australian sports physiology and coaching is world best.

lol, hardy ha ha i say.

yep, PawPaw has a keen point. Aussies are the best coaches.
Keep flexing, spinning, rolling, coasting, pushing, pulling, drafting, sprinting, time trialling, touring, climbing, descending, hot dogging, crit-ing, racing, weaving, dodging, dropping, tanking, chasing... but most of all - just keep f'ing riding!
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby clydesmcdale » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:23 pm

In one sense, yes the tour organisers may be to blame for the lack of spectacle at this year’s tour. But all credit to team Sky for evaluating the course, their own riders and the competition then putting a plan into action that has resulted in success.

The analogy earlier to golf is an interesting one. With the introduction of technology into the game allowing players to hit longer and longer and destroying courses, the PGA went about altering courses in an effort to even the playing field between the big hitters and the accurate players.

Perhaps in the future, the Tour will have to be carefully selected to level the playing field. This year seemed to be where team management decided the outcome, rather than any individual effort by the team leader. Team tactics should always have a place in the race, but I think spectators want to see a better balance. It’ll be interesting to see how the organisers respond to the public and media review of this year’s Tour.
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby brentono » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:27 pm

Despite age, Thomas Voeckler threw away the meter and radio
and walked away with the polka dot jersey. 8)
Perfect Sky Team leadout for Cavendish for the sprint down the Champs Elysees, and just held off
faster-finishing Peter Sagan (plenty more to come from this young guy). :wink:
Cadel Evans should not be written off, just yet, he needs to just re-think it.
Wiggins did this Year, what Cadel Evans did last year, but with no pressure on.
(TT's for the poms is a no brainer, and the coarse, this TdF seemed like a setup)
Next TdF will be a whole new ball park
(let's hope they can, all the boring T.T's and get back to reality)
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby twizzle » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:53 pm

The fastest rider in our Vets club is 48, he was racing scratch when he was 16. And he's top five in the open A grade crits, and managed to stick with the bunch when the Australian U23's team turned up for a crit. Awesome genetics is a pre-requisite for top-10 performance at the TDF level, Cadel will always be competitive. I'd be putting money on him still being able to finish in the top-50 when he's in his mid 40's.
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby stinhambo » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:30 pm

How would you sum up GreenEDGE's TdF?
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby The_Eggman » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:34 pm

jules21 wrote:i'm more optimistic than that. cadel has had a rough season - i suspect his sinus infection may have had a bigger impact on his preparation than he let on. if you look at the last two Tour winners, they've had very clean preparations (i'm hesitant to go back further than that). there's no obvious reason why it can't all fall into place again next year.

although he will start losing some of the raw endurance capacity to younger opponents, you can't underestimate the value of experience in this race, nor his ability to stay out of trouble. it only takes one mistake and a heavy favorite can be knocked out of contention.

most people thought he could not win the 2011 race and he proved them all wrong. i'll be cheering him on next year.


Maybe.

I guess my thinking is underpinned by his age. He was already the oldest winner since 1923. He's now +2 years on that. And my guess is 2013 will probably be a tour with a lot of climbing and less ITT (as a response to this year), which swings it back toward Schleck, Contrador, Froome, et al. This course actually suited Cadel quite well - it just happened to suit Wiggins better. And will BMC hold TJvG back for another year?

Nothing wrong with setting your season on the Giro and/or Classics by the way. A Giro win would be epic
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby The_Eggman » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:38 pm

stinhambo wrote:How would you sum up GreenEDGE's TdF?


Disappointing.

Just not buying into "yay, we have an Aussie team" thing. They went to win stages and jerseys, not intermediate sprints.

The leadouts seemed a little weak as compared to Lotto and Sky (who both had to protect GC riders) and Goss seemed to lack the grunt of Greipel, Cav and Sagan when it mattered. They were also a little anonymous in the breaks in the rolling stages.
Last edited by The_Eggman on Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby greyhoundtom » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:43 pm

stinhambo wrote:How would you sum up GreenEDGE's TdF?

No real game plan. Poor team management.

While a couple of individuals had a bit of a go, the above resulted in what was for me a lackluster performance.
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby Parrott » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:23 pm

The Badger strikes again :o Don't know who the bloke was but he dispatched him.
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby jules21 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:27 pm

Parrott wrote:The Badger strikes again :o Don't know who the bloke was but he dispatched him.

that guy got off lightly. there was a time when he would have copped a right hook :)
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby biker jk » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:52 pm

Parrott wrote:The Badger strikes again :o Don't know who the bloke was but he dispatched him.


Clearly the Badger thought it was Greg Lemond.
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:30 pm

I think it's a national honour to be pushed off of a podium by Hinault. It's not the first time. There are plenty of videos of Hinault smacking striking dock workers and unruly fans. And he gets away with it because he's Hinault and everyone else isn't.
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby Zynster » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:51 pm

I think Cadel has a reasonable chance of winning again based on past efforts. Out of 8 starts, he's had 6 top ten finishes, 3 podiums and 1 win. He has never dropped. His worst result was 30th with a fractured elbow. There is a reasonably large random element in a TdF. Crashes, illnesses, poor team support, unsuitable stages and opponents who turned out to be on drugs. Cadel has maintained a consistency that means that if the cards fall his way in future tours, he can win again.

As for Orica GreenEdge, yes disappointed. It all started with the new kit. Wow! How to disappear in a peleton. I loved the original kit. the new one sucks. Matt White has to wear the main responsibility for the poor performance. They put all their bets on Goss in a tour that wasn't very sprinter friendly. Goss was not fast enough to beat Cav and not versatile enough to beat Sagan. They need to change strategy to get stage wins. From what I saw of Matt White in Backstage Pass, changing strategy is not his strong suite.
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby adamr » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:57 pm

What chance GreenEdge will bid for Richie Porte for a GC rider for next season? I think he could be a contender with the right team support. His previous results and his TT prowess this year show that.
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby reeves » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:57 pm

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... t=1&ref=nf

Not sure I would call this just holding off Sagan :mrgreen:
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:07 pm

First time I saw Stuey in this tour was chatting to Wiggo on the promenade into Paris!
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby iaintas » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:30 am

adamr wrote:What chance GreenEdge will bid for Richie Porte for a GC rider for next season? I think he could be a contender with the right team support. His previous results and his TT prowess this year show that.


I doubt GE would bid for Richie, for one i don't think they would have the support for Richie to go for GC, and i am pretty sure he is contracted for next year with sky, also he didn't go through the AIS so i doubt if Matt White particularly likes him :twisted:
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby clackers » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:09 am

iaintas wrote:
I doubt GE would bid for Richie, for one i don't think they would have the support for Richie to go for GC, and i am pretty sure he is contracted for next year with sky, also he didn't go through the AIS so i doubt if Matt White particularly likes him :twisted:


Three pretty good reasons, Iain!
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Re: 2012 Tour de France

Postby RICHARDH » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:14 pm

Greenedge had a decent Tour a stage win would have capped of a stunning first season, they did struggle with the lead out. But they didn't practice the lead out at the start of the year ( which proved to bring results ) so that's not really surprising , the first time they really started tuning it was the Giro. Next year they will have Meyer focused solely on riding GC , Boberidge free to race without worrying about the track. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rohan Dennis signed next year either, who looks like his going to be a quality rider.

clackers wrote:
iaintas wrote:
I doubt GE would bid for Richie, for one i don't think they would have the support for Richie to go for GC, and i am pretty sure he is contracted for next year with sky, also he didn't go through the AIS so i doubt if Matt White particularly likes him :twisted:


Three pretty good reasons, Iain!


Asked at the start of the season Bannan was asked if there was any rider they went after and didn't get he said that there was only 1, he refused to name the rider but i believe Porte was that rider. Porte won't stay at Sky for long he has his own ambitions and Sky will clearly focus on Wiggins and Froome
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