25mm tyres = comfort

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25mm tyres = comfort

Postby jacks1071 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:06 pm

I havn't used 25mm tyres for a few years.

My race bike is a very stiff frame and rattles my fillings out everytime I ride it.

I just put some 25mm tyres on there, running 10psi less than normal (100psi) and its transformed the bone shaker into such a comfortable ride.

Thought I'd share the experience for anyone looking for a bit sweeter ride.

In terms of rolling resistance, the bike feels to roll better on rough chip seal type bitument where large stone has been used. On smooth hot mix I don't think its rolling quite as well as 23mm but over all - really great outcome, especially for me were nearly all of our roads are this rubbish chip seal finish.

If you've not tried 25's - I suggest giving them a go :-)
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by BNA » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:02 pm

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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby MichaelB » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:02 pm

jacks1071 wrote:I havn't used 25mm tyres for a few years.

My race bike is a very stiff frame and rattles my fillings out everytime I ride it.

I just put some 25mm tyres on there, running 10psi less than normal (100psi) and its transformed the bone shaker into such a comfortable ride.

Thought I'd share the experience for anyone looking for a bit sweeter ride.

In terms of rolling resistance, the bike feels to roll better on rough chip seal type bitument where large stone has been used. On smooth hot mix I don't think its rolling quite as well as 23mm but over all - really great outcome, especially for me were nearly all of our roads are this rubbish chip seal finish.

If you've not tried 25's - I suggest giving them a go :-)


Amen to that.

Did that very thing on the Azzurri Forza Pro test bike I am riding at the moment. Swapped from the standard Zaffiro Pro 23C's to Michelin Optimum Pro 25C's, and the difference is day & night.

I run 90 front and 100 rear, and now the bike is a pleasure to ride, and now I don't know if I've run over an ant. I'll even venture to say it is a better handling bike too.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby rustychisel » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:22 pm

whilst I don't necessarily question the conclusion, the methodology is suspect.

Jacks: 10% less pressure - down from 110psi - might= be the biggest factor. Not to mention the bike itself.
Michael: Zaffiro are nobodies idea of a plush tyre, their carcass is too rigid.
Both: go try some veloflex, play around with pressures, then get back to me.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby jacks1071 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:33 pm

I've just ordered a Schwalbe 25mm tubular for racing, will try it on the rear with the 23mm on the front.

I'm just amazed at the difference. I have used 25's in the past but it was on a Titanium bike that had amazing ride qualities and to be honest there was not much in it. On a really stiff frame though - wow.

Even the stress on the frames and wheels has to be significantly reduced, we have some really serious cane train (tram) lines that we cross here and some of them you slam into so hard you can occassionally hear the carbon fibre frames cracking - with the 25's going over even the bad ones is just so smooth.

I wouldn't believe 2mm would make such a difference if I didn't ride it for myself.

The 25's I am running are Gatorskin Hardshell model.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Aushiker » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:39 pm

I don't have a copy of the actual Bicycle Quarterly article but the related blog post is still worth a read. Sheds some interesting thoughts on wider tyres ....

Jan Heine also shares his views on tyre pressures.

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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Johndec » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:07 pm

Aushiker wrote:I don't have a copy of the actual Bicycle Quarterly article



Is this the article you are referring to Andrew:

http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/TireDrop.pdf
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby pagey » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:19 pm

Transformed my S2 with 25mm GP4000s
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Aushiker » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:21 pm

Johndec wrote:
Aushiker wrote:I don't have a copy of the actual Bicycle Quarterly article



Is this the article you are referring to Andrew:

http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/TireDrop.pdf


No but that is another interesting one in the series. I just got the one I was thinking of: http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/BQ64TireTest.pdf .

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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby open roader » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:12 pm

Another recent convert to 25mm tyres.

My 20 cents says I found the Scwhalbe Ultremo ZX clinchers in 25mm width to be a considerable deal more comfortable than the older R.1 or the newer ZX in 23mm widths but I scored 3 pinches in a row trying to run too low a pressure in them - anything above 95psi lost that uber comfy ride for me (76kg) and since have switched to tubulars.

Thus far I have tried the Schwalbe Ultremo HT tubs in 25mm and found them indeed every bit as comfortable over the same roads as 25mm clinchers but perhaps at the pressures I've been running (90psi front 100psi rear) they don't roll as well as the 25mm clinchers did at same pressures for the same comfort levels.

Recently tried Vittoria EVO CX tubs in 23mm and found the comfort I want with superior rolling feel + times are better........

But I'd say def. Yes 25mm tyres = comfort
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby RobM » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:06 am

Even the king Zinn himself recommends 25mm tyres for comfort AND lower rolling resistance:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/03/ ... ter_209888

Velonews also had a gallery where the pros were using 25mm tyres on the flat stages for the same reasons - i think it was either at the Giro or one of the lesser known classics. The only reason they changed back to 22/23mm was for the mountain stages (lighter).

As soon as my 23mm Michelon Krylions wear down Ill be getting 25mm version (Pro 4 Endurance i think theyre called nowadays).
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby rifraf » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:48 am

Heres Schwalbe's take on the subject:

http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/ ... stance#why
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby __PG__ » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:16 am

I've thrown some 25mm Gatorskins on my current bike which will soon be a dedicated commuter/rain bike. I was riding 23mm Michelin Krylions. The Gatorskin is a heavier/stiffer tyre which doesn't feel as fast but running at lower pressure (90 from 100 psi) feels nice.

My new bike will have 23 mm Michelin Pro4 Endurance (Kyrlion replacement) on the HED Belgium 23mm rim which I've heard mimics the feel of a 25mm tyre in many ways.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Comedian » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:24 am

I went from 25mm to 23mm and it made a huge difference to the rolling resistance of the bike. Absolutely massive. They were Michelin Pro Optimum and I went to Continental Force and Attack. Yes, the ride suffered a little, but my frame is pretty smooth riding anyway (Defy Advanced) so it's quite acceptable. I've ended up using up my 25mm tyres on my commuting bike. :)

If you are not doing fast paced group rides I reckon it would be fine. :)
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:20 pm

rustychisel wrote:whilst I don't necessarily question the conclusion, the methodology is suspect.

Jacks: 10% less pressure - down from 110psi - might= be the biggest factor. Not to mention the bike itself.
Michael: Zaffiro are nobodies idea of a plush tyre, their carcass is too rigid.
Both: go try some veloflex, play around with pressures, then get back to me.


Hiya Rusty,

Will happily try the Veloflex when you send me some in the post. :D

My assessment is based on more than one tyre and more than one bike. Have used Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 28, Conti GP 4 Season 28, Schwalbe Ultremo ZX 25, Conti GP 4000 23, Maxxis Detonator 28, Conti Ultrasport 28, Hutcinson Road Tubeless 23 & 25.

Conclusion is the same. 25/28 give better ride for this bklack duck, and I'm just as slow as before.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby gabrielle260 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:32 pm

25mm tyres and the benefits thereof is old news in the UK & USA. I changed from 23 to 25 mm GP4000s well over 15 months ago and haven't looked back. Back then you could only buy the 25mm version online and both Wiggle and CRC sold out of them within a day of getting them in stock.
For me (and I am not saying this will apply to others) at my weight 96-100kg and riding style they are noticeably more comfortable and just as fast,
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby wombatK » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:22 pm

Glad to read this - I accidentally selected 25 mm not 23mm on my last order of GP4000s. Was going to ebay them,
but looks like I'll be using them now - even though I've never had any comfort issues with the 23's :)
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:58 pm

Comedian wrote:If you are not doing fast paced group rides I reckon it would be fine. :)


I use 25mm for training and often a 25mm rear for racing... Always use latex tubes... They are definitely less harsh and at 40kmph av for 2 hours or more they don't seem to be slowing me down!. :-)
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Comedian » Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:20 am

toolonglegs wrote:
Comedian wrote:If you are not doing fast paced group rides I reckon it would be fine. :)


I use 25mm for training and often a 25mm rear for racing... Always use latex tubes... They are definitely less harsh and at 40kmph av for 2 hours or more they don't seem to be slowing me down!. :-)


Cool! Two out of two people that rode my bike were astonished with the difference though. Might have been the particular tyre...
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby greyhoundtom » Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:59 am

Just a question on this whole situation.........I would be very interested in changing from 23 mm to 25 mm tyres, except that I have to remove the rear wheel to fit the bike in the vehicle, and as it is with the 23 mm tyres when the brake calliper is opened I can only just get my tyre past the brake pads to remove the wheel.

How much does fitting 25 mm tyres impact on this issue?
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Peacewise » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:02 pm

greyhoundtom, you may find that the deflated 25mm tyre will go past your brakes just fine, but inflated it may not. Just depends on your frame and brakes.

My Ultremo zx's 23mm on front and rear both died just two days ago, huge shard of glass through each of them. I happened to have some michelin pro race 3's 25mm handy and swapped them over.

Running the michelin's at 100 pounds front and rear and the bike felt noticeably more comfortable but also felt like I was riding in sand, however the riding stats reveal I was riding at a normal pace. A few railway crossings and bumpy sections and I'm converted to 25mm, distinctly noticeable how much more comfortable they are. Also feel surer, didn't feel twitchy once.

That said, I have already ordered some of those fancy Conti Attack/Force front and rear pair, so I'll have to try those out one day too.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby Comedian » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:59 am

greyhoundtom wrote:Just a question on this whole situation.........I would be very interested in changing from 23 mm to 25 mm tyres, except that I have to remove the rear wheel to fit the bike in the vehicle, and as it is with the 23 mm tyres when the brake calliper is opened I can only just get my tyre past the brake pads to remove the wheel.

How much does fitting 25 mm tyres impact on this issue?


It might depend too on how much slop you like on your brakes. Ie if you have a lot of slop it might fit but if you like them set up tight then it could well be a struggle.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby greyhoundtom » Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:38 pm

I do like the brakes pretty tight so I may have to stick with the 23 mm :(
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby __PG__ » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:40 pm

Fork clearance is also an issue. I've heard the 3t Funda fork will struggle with 25mm tyres
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby jacks1071 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:42 pm

greyhoundtom wrote:I do like the brakes pretty tight so I may have to stick with the 23 mm :(


Try this when you take your wheel off - don't open the brakes, just undo the skewer like normal and then give the top of the wheel a solid thump with the palm of your hand - the wheel should pop right off. If that works alright for you - then brake lever flipped up and you shouldn't have an issue with the 25mm tyres.

Alternately - open your brakes up a little more.
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Re: 25mm tyres = comfort

Postby jacks1071 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:46 pm

__PG__ wrote:Fork clearance is also an issue. I've heard the 3t Funda fork will struggle with 25mm tyres


According to 3T website you can run up to and including 28mm tyres with that fork:

http://www.3tcycling.com/f/funda%20clearance.pdf
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