Doorings under attack
- il padrone
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Doorings under attack
Postby il padrone » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:04 pm
Overall a good result.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
- Mulger bill
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby Mulger bill » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:45 pm
Lack of the usuals comment from the usual suspects is more disturbing than reading them. Calm before the storm?
Wonder if I can get first comment in...
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby Aushiker » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:55 pm
Andrew
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby il padrone » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:00 pm
Posted at 6.32pm. They've all knocked off and gone to the pub Get your comment in!!Mulger bill wrote:Lack of the usuals comment from the usual suspects is more disturbing than reading them. Calm before the storm?
Wonder if I can get first comment in...
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby zero » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:14 pm
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby jindydiver » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:49 am
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby il padrone » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:23 am
Pretty basic legal principle really - you are only legally responsible for your own actions, not those of other people.jindydiver wrote:Why is it beyond them to apply demerits to a person in control of a car and not to a passenger? Weak as piss really
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby PawPaw » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:26 am
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby hannos » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:44 am
il padrone wrote:Pretty basic legal principle really - you are only legally responsible for your own actions, not those of other people.jindydiver wrote:Why is it beyond them to apply demerits to a person in control of a car and not to a passenger? Weak as piss really
Except (in NSW) the driver is responsible for those in the car not wearing seat belts and can get fined / demerit points for an infringement.
How is it different about opening the door of a vehicle the driver is in control of?
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby Ozkaban » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:01 am
I agree - it works well for seatbelts. Why not doorings? If the driver tells people to be careful as they're liable it would improve awareness of the issue quite a lot.hannos wrote:il padrone wrote:Pretty basic legal principle really - you are only legally responsible for your own actions, not those of other people.jindydiver wrote:Why is it beyond them to apply demerits to a person in control of a car and not to a passenger? Weak as piss really
Except (in NSW) the driver is responsible for those in the car not wearing seat belts and can get fined / demerit points for an infringement.
How is it different about opening the door of a vehicle the driver is in control of?
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby AndrewBurns » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:05 am
Good to see the fine has increased but to be honest it's not enough. I wouldn't blink at dropping $300, it's just not enough for injuring or potentially killing somebody. As the comments in that article clearly show there's a huge amount of mindless anger and ignorance out there that needs to be addressed, simply increasing fines will do nothing.
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby Aushiker » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:26 am
For starters the driver can refuse to drive off or if appropriate pull up an stop the car if someone is not wearing a seat belt /removes it. Unless the car has driver controlled door locking it is pretty hard to stop someone from opening the day when you are sitting in the drivers seat.Ozkaban wrote:I agree - it works well for seatbelts. Why not doorings? If the driver tells people to be careful as they're liable it would improve awareness of the issue quite a lot.
Somehow I suspect you wouldn't be too happy if a rear seat passenger, say sitting behind you as the driver, opened the door, doored a cyclist and you got the fine/demerits.
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby jindydiver » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:46 am
Drivers are responsible for some actions of their passengers, but you miss my point completely.il padrone wrote:Pretty basic legal principle really - you are only legally responsible for your own actions, not those of other people.jindydiver wrote:Why is it beyond them to apply demerits to a person in control of a car and not to a passenger? Weak as piss really
Why can't the legislation specify that if a driver doors someone they are fined and lose points, and if a passenger doors someone they are just fined? It is just laziness to throw their hands up and say it is too hard so we wont do either.
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby grasshopper » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:55 am
Yep; needed to be far more to keep it burbling along. At this level, they get some ticks from the easy markers and it all vanishes. And as others have said, the cops have made it pretty clear they're not interested. I was talking to a couple of police staffing an awareness stand at a shopping centre not 5km away recently, and they didn't know there'd been a fatal. So much more awareness is needed, and it could be easily and cheaply driven through the internal comms machine. If anyone cared. I guess we're a poor second to drugs and drunks, both of which are peddled for profit.AndrewBurns wrote:Good to see the fine has increased but to be honest it's not enough.
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby g-boaf » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:06 pm
Unfortunately, you spoke too soon. The comments are just ridiculous on there. Good on the Government to try and do something about it. And how about using their influence to get the radio and newspaper shock-jocks to get on the bandwagon and start blasting people responsible for the doorings?Mulger bill wrote:'Bout damn time!
Lack of the usuals comment from the usual suspects is more disturbing than reading them. Calm before the storm?
Wonder if I can get first comment in...
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby Mulger bill » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:15 pm
They actually published one of me comments Hasn't happened for years, musta had something to do with me not using me normal name and addy
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby Big_Red » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:56 pm
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby find_bruce » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:16 pm
If you had listed your address as Eaglehawk, would it have given the game away ?Mulger bill wrote:They actually published one of me comments Hasn't happened for years, musta had something to do with me not using me normal name and addy
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby KonaCommuter » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:42 pm
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby KonaCommuter » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:02 pm
Oxford wrote:interesting, on the moto forums they're up in arms about it wondering how cyclists can get so much positive action. like cyclists moto riders suffer from SMIDSY but law enforcement thinks its always the moto riders fault, sound familiar?
Tell them it's cyclists awesome calves. They're awe inspiring
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby jules21 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:04 pm
+ 1zero wrote:Until they make it a sackable offence for a police officer to fail to prosecute a dooring, its all a bit moot imo. They can't even manage it in a fatality situation.
why are people getting excited about this? police make their own decisions about whether to issue a fine or not. i know cases where cops have point blank refused to fine drivers for dooring, and not just in james cross' case. this will probably achieve little
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby Mulger bill » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:27 pm
I'd be happy to ally with the moto riders in advocacy as downtrodden two wheelers but I see two problems...Oxford wrote:interesting, on the moto forums they're up in arms about it wondering how cyclists can get so much positive action. like cyclists moto riders suffer from SMIDSY but law enforcement thinks its always the moto riders fault, sound familiar?
1 Moto advocacy in this country is horribly horribly fragmented at state level, let alone national.
2 Govt would probably see it as an excuse to nail cycling clubs under anti bikie legislation.
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby Percrime » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:42 am
Pretty sure that they can already do that.Mulger bill wrote: 2 Govt would probably see it as an excuse to nail cycling clubs under anti bikie legislation.
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby Cheesewheel » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:37 am
for what its worth, insurance issues weigh it otherwise.jules21 wrote:+ 1zero wrote:Until they make it a sackable offence for a police officer to fail to prosecute a dooring, its all a bit moot imo. They can't even manage it in a fatality situation.
why are people getting excited about this? police make their own decisions about whether to issue a fine or not. i know cases where cops have point blank refused to fine drivers for dooring, and not just in james cross' case. this will probably achieve little
Had a friend who was involved in a dooring incident (motorvehicle on motorvehicle) and it seems to be the closest thing you can come to for a 100% at fault payout. From what he was telling me, even if a person leaves a door open just a little bit and leaves it unattended, they are liable for whatever damages it causes (of course if it kills you you probably won't be in a state to receive compensation)
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Re: Doorings under attack
Postby jules21 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:54 am
i don't understand your point cheesewheel. i agree that fault lies with the door opener, but that hasn't stopped police from refusing to issue fines. the latter isn't an indication police blame the victim, probably more that they sympathise with the perpetrator.Cheesewheel wrote:for what its worth, insurance issues weigh it otherwise.
Had a friend who was involved in a dooring incident (motorvehicle on motorvehicle) and it seems to be the closest thing you can come to for a 100% at fault payout. From what he was telling me, even if a person leaves a door open just a little bit and leaves it unattended, they are liable for whatever damages it causes (of course if it kills you you probably won't be in a state to receive compensation)
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