3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

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3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby thomashouseman » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:11 pm

I have my Kona Honky Inc rear wheel bearings/body in with Group Sportif the National Distributors for Kona. They're having problems sourcing a replacement cassette body / wheel bearing as they "only hold spare frames".

They just tried claiming the estimated 5000km I've done on the rear wheel in 6 months exceeds the rated 3000km life span of the part.

Does 3000km sound excessively low for this? It did to me.... A wheel wearing out before a cassette. :?

They threw in a "We'll honour it this time" line, but now they have me worried I've bought a lemon as I expect to do another 3000km even before the 1 year factory warranty is up on the bike.

T.
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by BNA » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:21 pm

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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby r2160 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:21 pm

I have a 2008 Giant OCR1 (tiagra/tektro) that has now done just over 17000km (I have logged these km). In this time, I get approximately 5000km from a cassette and chain (I have only ever put tiagra cassette-chain on). The wheels have only had the bearings re-greased in the last month (because I did it) and I have only broken one rear spoke, despite the fact that I carry a rear rack and two pannier bags that hold my clothes, lunch, spares etc.

3000km from a wheel sounds pretty ordinary to me.

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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby elantra » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:33 pm

3000 km is way less than the average club roadie or even weekend warrior would do in a year.

FWIW i too am the victim of a prematurely deceased wheel bearing in an American Classic Sprint 350 rear wheel.
It gave up the ghost at a most inopportune time out in the bush on a Great Qld bike ride last year.
Fortunately the ride support team found me a new wheel.
Ironically this new wheel (of indeterminate breed ) is on loan to another friend whose rear Shimano RS80 also has premature bearing failure.
Must be just a run of dud bearings perhaps.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby queequeg » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:49 pm

thomashouseman wrote:I have my Kona Honky Inc rear wheel bearings/body in with Group Sportif the National Distributors for Kona. They're having problems sourcing a replacement cassette body / wheel bearing as they "only hold spare frames".

They just tried claiming the estimated 5000km I've done on the rear wheel in 6 months exceeds the rated 3000km life span of the part.

Does 3000km sound excessively low for this? It did to me.... A wheel wearing out before a cassette. :?

They threw in a "We'll honour it this time" line, but now they have me worried I've bought a lemon as I expect to do another 3000km even before the 1 year factory warranty is up on the bike.

T.


Well, when I got my wheels built by the LBS late last year, I told them I wanted a hub that would last tens of thousands of km because I commute every day, result: bearings shot after less than 3,000km, entire hub destroyed after 6,000km (bent axle, gouged freehub body, and freehub constantly slipping off the axle and throwing cassette out of alignment). Cost to repair again exceeded the cost of buying a whole new hub of more reliable pedigree, along with 36 new spokes. I did the rebuild myself. I also bought some new hubs and rims to build up a new wheelset to use as my main ones, then keep the current set as spares so I can still ride when one wheel is in for maintenance.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby il padrone » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:21 pm

3000 kms?


Don't buy that wheel :o :roll:


I've never heard such outrageously lousy lifespan expectations.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby Short Stem » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:51 pm

Would like to see that in your Owner's Manual.... At your 3001 km, this hub will self destruct !
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby zero » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:58 pm

A kona honky inc is advertised as the "ultimate inclement conditions road bike". It has disc brakes, and the wheelset lifespan should be near to indefinate, and should follow many hub repairs, a respoking or two, with eventual failure due to a cracked spoke hole, when the bike and rider are both much older. I'd be expecting more like 50,000 kms.


However....

A cassette body is the freehub, and those are almost consumables - one failing is not really a wheelset failure.

I tend to go through one every 12,000 kms or so on an MTB that offroad races and wet weather commutes. I'd expect much better if the bike is only dry ridden on road.

How Kona's distributor proposes to support commuting riders by not having basic hub spares available is beyond me. They should get onto formula and have a stock of all the parts available if they intend selling commuting bikes. Anything else is lunacy, and yes they should expect to replace some under warranty that fail prematurely if they are going to use relatively unknown brand hubs. 5000 kms is a premature failure for a freehub. Commuting bikes can be expected to do 8000kms in a year, and the part should last a year.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby thomashouseman » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:23 pm

Okay, thanks all, they were my opinions too. 3000km's IS a bit ridiculous. I think I'll quote back what Zero quoted from their website if they ever bring it up again :)

I could probably fight it with ACCC's help too: http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.ph ... Id/1026241

T.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby il padrone » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:37 pm

It tends to be the aluminium freehubs that are the worst for wear as the sprockets cut into the splines. However Shimano freehubs seem to be pretty indestructable. I changed mine from 7sp to 9sp in 2001. The freehub was in regular use up until this year (retired from my wife's bike due to Rohloff conversion). I would say it has conservatively done 4000kms per year on average - that equals a 40,000 km lifespan and still very serviceable.

Kona's hubs, and a lot of these after-market hubs and machine-built wheels are pretty cr#p IMHO.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby queequeg » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:15 pm

il padrone wrote:It tends to be the aluminium freehubs that are the worst for wear as the sprockets cut into the splines. However Shimano freehubs seem to be pretty indestructable. I changed mine from 7sp to 9sp in 2001. The freehub was in regular use up until this year (retired from my wife's bike due to Rohloff conversion). I would say it has conservatively done 4000kms per year on average - that equals a 40,000 km lifespan and still very serviceable.

Kona's hubs, and a lot of these after-market hubs and machine-built wheels are pretty cr#p IMHO.


I replaced the expensive MTB Hub (with crappy alloy freehub) with a standard Deore XT Hub (with a steel freehub). So far so good. The hubs were so cheap that I actually bought a spare set "just in case"! My other bike has Ultegra 6700 Road Hubs, and those have done about 6,500km without any issues. Likewise, my old Hybrid wheelset has the same hubs and has done ~17,000km without a single issue.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby thomashouseman » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:25 am

zero wrote:....and yes they should expect to replace some under warranty that fail prematurely if they are going to use relatively unknown brand hubs. 5000 kms is a premature failure for a freehub. Commuting bikes can be expected to do 8000kms in a year, and the part should last a year.


Latest update on this was that they use a "Formula" cassette body and Specialized use these and they're trying to source a replacement via them. /shrug! As long as I get a working bike wheel soon I'll be happy. Seems a pretty poor / haphazard warranty response to me though. Seriously, just post me a replacement via DHL/UPS from the States/Canada if it's that rare/hard to replace in Australia.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby silentbutdeadly » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:56 am

Formula freehubs are as generic as they come. Sourcing one from the Specialized distro seems a bit daft since there is an Australian supplier from memory.

It would appear that Group Sportif don't want to part out their bikes (unlike many other distros) in the face of warranty claims. Which is curious. Both Cannondale and Giant simply part out their bikes in response to warranty claims which is why they often have pallets of group-sets and cockpit components to onsell to their retailers at the end of the year.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby thomashouseman » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:34 am

silentbutdeadly wrote:Formula freehubs are as generic as they come. Sourcing one from the Specialized distro seems a bit daft since there is an Australian supplier from memory.

It would appear that Group Sportif don't want to part out their bikes (unlike many other distros) in the face of warranty claims. Which is curious. Both Cannondale and Giant simply part out their bikes in response to warranty claims which is why they often have pallets of group-sets and cockpit components to onsell to their retailers at the end of the year.


Ha! You're assuming they have stock of my bicycle model in Australia. When I tried buying it, I had to ring every Kona dealer listed as no-one had any stock. I eventually found there were only two of that model for sale in Australia. Even the National Distributor couldn't give an ETA on new stock. (Arrived about 2 months later - I kept my eye out)
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby queequeg » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:07 pm

thomashouseman wrote:
silentbutdeadly wrote:Formula freehubs are as generic as they come. Sourcing one from the Specialized distro seems a bit daft since there is an Australian supplier from memory.

It would appear that Group Sportif don't want to part out their bikes (unlike many other distros) in the face of warranty claims. Which is curious. Both Cannondale and Giant simply part out their bikes in response to warranty claims which is why they often have pallets of group-sets and cockpit components to onsell to their retailers at the end of the year.


Ha! You're assuming they have stock of my bicycle model in Australia. When I tried buying it, I had to ring every Kona dealer listed as no-one had any stock. I eventually found there were only two of that model for sale in Australia. Even the National Distributor couldn't give an ETA on new stock. (Arrived about 2 months later - I kept my eye out)


I got told by the distributor of my rear wheel hub that bearings are not covered by warranty. I copped the first bearing replacement, but when it failed again I bought a new hub and binned the old one (cheaper than fixing it). Won't be buying that brand again.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby Xplora » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:34 pm

Actually, you make a good point - I had my rear hub repacked after around 6-8K clicks... the rims are pretty tough at least. I don't see how Kona can expect to sell many bikes if their all weather bike (which would include snow in the US) doesn't have enough support from the distro to replace a hub. 3000kms is only 60kms a week. That is 6kms each way - I don't think rrp1800 is a smart price to pay for such a short commute if you are only going that far without any other riding.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby jasimon » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:08 pm

3000km is not "reasonable" for a $1800 bike. The bike should be fit for the purpose it is sold for and last a "reasonable" amount of time. And, based on that, it is covered by the statutory warranty regardless of what the retailer or manufacturer might claim. The manufacturer's warranty is additional to any statutory warranty - it doesn't replace it.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby thomashouseman » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:22 pm

jasimon wrote:3000km is not "reasonable" for a $1800 bike. The bike should be fit for the purpose it is sold for and last a "reasonable" amount of time. And, based on that, it is covered by the statutory warranty regardless of what the retailer or manufacturer might claim. The manufacturer's warranty is additional to any statutory warranty - it doesn't replace it.


Yup, I've had that pointed out to me and will stick to my guns. Won't take no for an answer. Quite happy to take them to the small claims whoozywhatzits if they don't come to the party.

Thanks all for the input. Will let you all know how it pans out.

T.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby zero » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:19 pm

Holdens new car warranty covers the clutch in a Commodore for the duration (probably 3 years still). That is more or less the equivalent item in a car, and it is also technically a consumable.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby Xplora » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:34 pm

zero wrote:Holdens new car warranty covers the clutch in a Commodore for the duration (probably 3 years still). That is more or less the equivalent item in a car, and it is also technically a consumable.

They cover the clutch? Weird. Car warranties normally don't cover anything that wears out from regular use - tyres, brake pads, clutch. All those things are easy to wear out very quickly if you are motivated :shock:
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby thomashouseman » Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:49 pm

Latest update:

Still no sign of my wheel being returned. Was advised more than two weeks ago:

Hi Thomas,

I have arranged a shipment of cassette bodies from Formula, we will be carrying this item as a spare part to avoid these type of delays in the future. When I arranged the parts I informed the guys at ******* straight away, It is my understanding that you have been informed of the situation. The parts should be here any day and once they arrive I will forward on to *******.

Thank you for your patience.


Regards


Followed this up today and got:

Hi Thomas,

I have sent 2 more emails over the past 2 weeks to clarify when they are coming, due to the bike show in Europe called Eurobike it has been a little slow. I have emailed them again today to get an update. Again I will keep you and the store posted as soon as I get new information.


Regards


So So So terrible service. Couldn't ever recommend a Kona bike to anyone in Australia, no matter how wonderful the actual bikes are until they sort out their warranty service.

It's been more than two months since my wheel was sent to them and they don't even have a parts ETA yet. Thank goodness the local bike shop was able to sort me out with an alternative wheel (for $$$$) while this was off being repaired.

Stay tuned for further adventures.

T.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby Xplora » Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:45 pm

Wow. That's so disappointing.

In related news, check your PM OK?
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby thomashouseman » Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:13 pm

Xplora wrote:In related news, check your PM OK?

I replied to your 8Aug PM on the same day if that's what you mean. No new PM's today.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby thomashouseman » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:09 pm

Update:

A week or two ago, the local bike shop called saying my wheel had returned from the distributor! :shock:
They were a bit amazed themselves. :D
The wheel was missing the gatorskin tyre that they sent it down to Melb. with, but other than that it was here! (the bike shop gave me a new Gatorskin. Kudos to them.)

I haven't actually fitted it yet to see if the issue is resolved (as I ended up buying a spare wheel as they took so long).... I probably should shouldn't I :?:

T.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby find_bruce » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:34 pm

Wow only 2.5 months for a part that should be available as a spare part. I would be using it to make sure it is ok & to get maximum use out of it before the 1 year warranty is up.
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Re: 3000km rated max on wheel / cassette body?

Postby usernameforme » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:45 pm

is it the bearing that gave up on you or the cassette body itself? If the bearings in the hub are cup and cone you need to grease them at regular intervals (varies depending on how much riding/what type of riding you do). It amazes me how many people have shot bearings (on their shimano/cup and cone bearing wheels) because they didn't grease the bearings. I've seen a few RS80's that were bought online and had the bearings pack up because the buyer didn't grease them (they come with very little/no grease from the factory)
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