A question from a motorist

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby zero » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:17 am

BillWatson wrote:If I may I would like to pose a couple of hypothetical for general discussion

1. On a nice sunny day on a a shared bike path a mother and young child are walking along the left hand side of the path. 2 cyclists riding two abreast, and at speed , fly past and without sounding their bell. One of the riders hits the small child with his peddle causing very bad injuries. Then races on without stopping. Question, how is the mother to hold the cyclist to account for this?


There was a study done on this. The highly experienced professor and professional statistician compared the incident of death by cyclist and found it somewhat less likely than being struck by lightning in Sydney. I do of course sell miniature lightning straps and rods, which you can fit to your personal pedestrian helmet, which I'm sure as a safety conscious person you wear, because falls are after all one of the most common modes of death, but I can't guarentee you that it will function properly for personal pedestrian helmets that the user has fitted tinfoil linings to. That stuff is conductive!


2. During peak hour a driver moves a bit too close to a cyclist (without any malice). While this is to be considered dangerous, no harm was done. However, the cyclist is having a bad day and as he approaches her at the next lights he hurls abuse and kicks in her door and breaks off her mirror. He then races off ahead of the slow moving traffic. Once again how is this person able to hold the cyclist to account?

If these incidents were to occur in a motor vehicle (which they do, and more often than with cyclists), then it may be possible to get the registration and let the police deal with them, however, at present it is impossible to hold a cyclist accountable, without either physically stopping them, or worse, chasing them though the streets.


How to perform an overtaking move on a slower vehicle.

1 - check ahead for sufficient space with no oncoming vehicles. Or even better, locate a lane adjacent to the vehicle you wish to overtake, that is marked for travel in your direction
2 - put on your indicator
3 - check your rear vision and side mirrors, and do a head check for any vehicles in the lane you intend using to overtake the slower vehicle
4 - check again ahead, and if its still clear, change lanes and move past the slower vehicle
5 - if you need to move back over again, indicate and locate the vehicle you have overtaken in your side mirror, and ensure that you are some 2 or so seconds ahead of it so as to not impinge on its braking space.
6 - change lanes again if required.

This simple 6 step process will ensure that you never have a mirror broken by a cyclist again. Not only that, its extremely handy driving technique and can be used for passing other slow vehicles, like buses, trucks and Volvos.
zero
 
Posts: 2617
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:54 pm

by BNA » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:10 am

BNA
 

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby KenGS » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:10 am

BillWatson wrote:If I see some one driving dangerously I can, and will report them to police. So why can't I have this option for cyclists?

How many times have you done this in the past year and how successful were you in obtaining a prosecution?
--Ken
Helmets! Bells! Rego!
User avatar
KenGS
 
Posts: 1444
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:31 pm
Location: Rosanna, Victoria

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby KenGS » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:20 am

BillWatson wrote:I still have not seen a valid reason (aside from cost, which would be significant) for not registering bikes.

You miss the point. Any form of registration that would be remotely feasible from a financial point of view for the government would be an unfair imposition. Fairness of any statutory imposition is a fundamental principle in our society. I'd very much like to hear your counter argument
--Ken
Helmets! Bells! Rego!
User avatar
KenGS
 
Posts: 1444
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:31 pm
Location: Rosanna, Victoria

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby bychosis » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:08 am

BillWatson wrote:1. On a nice sunny day on a a shared bike path a mother and young child are walking along the left hand side of the path. 2 cyclists riding two abreast, and at speed , fly past and without sounding their bell. One of the riders hits the small child with his peddle causing very bad injuries. Then races on without stopping. Question, how is the mother to hold the cyclist to account for this?


I suspect that in that situation most decent people/cyclists will stop. There are always going to be jerks who think they are more important than others and won't stop. They are also the people who run into you with their shopping trolley without apologising and push you out of the way to be first in line. Your other example is similar. A small rego plate on a bike is also unlikely to be legible by the time you think to look to see what it is after the cyclist takes off.

The honest, and if necessary registered riders will not be responsible for these type of actions. How many police are going to stop an unregistered bicycle, how many stop unhelmetted riders now? The ratbags won't register their bikes in protest and will continue to be rat bags. The decent cyclist will be burdened with a registration task that costs more than it is worth.

I also hazard a guess that the cyclists that are posting video of poor motorist actions are also the type of rider that generally follow the rules, the two wheeled terrorists that run red lights and collide with children without stopping are a different breed and a testament to our increasingly selfish society.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.
User avatar
bychosis
 
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby Pax » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:50 am

BillWatson wrote:2. During peak hour a driver moves a bit too close to a cyclist (without any malice). While this is to be considered dangerous, no harm was done. However, the cyclist is having a bad day and as he approaches her at the next lights he hurls abuse and kicks in her door and breaks off her mirror. He then races off ahead of the slow moving traffic. Once again how is this person able to hold the cyclist to account?


Hi Bill

Interesting discussion.

I think that there is an important aditional issue that is missed in this scenario that does contribute to the issues you want to "fix". That is that this scenario should read:

"During peak hour - the most dangerous time for cyclists_ a driver illegally moves a bit too close to a cyclist thereby endangering their live - for the 3rd or 4th or 5th time on this cyclists ride today alone (without malice - but sadly and not rarely with fatal or injurious consequences even if they didn't hit the cyclist - due to the poor state of road shoulders in most Australian cities ). The cyclist knows that it is pointless to attempt to bring this illegal and dangerous action to the attention of police because he has unsuccessfully sought redress from police for far more explicit acts of assault from motorist including having items thrown at him and threats of violence simply for riding. While this is to be considered dangerous no harm was done this time though on the law of probability it is only a matter of time before this cyclist is injured through this kind of ignorant and dangerous driving...."

None of the above amendments (true though they are) excuses the hypothetical behaviour of the cyclist. But it does point out that driver education (and cyclist education) may be a better place to spend govt money in order to reduce road rage rather than on bibycle registration which most governments have realised is not cost effective.

Bill those of us who ride do it because we love it in spite of the dangers. We know that statistically the benefit to our health is greater than the risk however none of us feels immune to death or injury due to the scenario that you present and we carry that risk every single day, all too often we watch the often serious (sometimes fatal) consequences on the news when another cyclist is killed or injured. Typically we don't tell our spouses about our near misses because they already would prefer that we didn't ride.

Who and what typically kills and injures cyclists: REGISTERED road users.

Education and tolerance and a community spirit is what is needed not bike rego.

Tim
User avatar
Pax
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:23 pm
Location: Pine Rivers, Qld

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby hannos » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:12 am

Hello Bill,

Registration is primarily to ensure the vehicle is roadworthy.
Secondary to that is identification.
2010 BMC SLC01
Image
User avatar
hannos
 
Posts: 4020
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:18 am
Location: Sydney

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby r2160 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:46 am

Bill

I can understand your point but let me make two others for you.

Incident A: I was riding on a saturday, last may. While riding, a driver in a vehicle apparently decided that the fact I was riding on the road caused him great offence. Despite the fact that I was doing nothing wrong, he sped up the road, got out of his car, and assaulted me as I went past. By assaulted, I mean king hit. I provided the registration number of the vehicle, a witness and a description of the person. NO CHARGES HAVE BEEN LAID.

Incident B: Whilst riding through Lidcombe, NSW, a truck decided that he didnt have to concern himself with my life or safety. He used his vehicle 3 TIMES to try to hit me. I provided VIDEO FOOTAGE of the incident, the registration number of the vehicle, and at this point, NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE.

You say that a cyclist having a registration plate will fix these things. It wont. Until ALL PARTIES, motorists, pedestrians AND cyclists decide to start obeying the law, and start to consider each other, a registration plate wont change a thing.

Ask me about the police that decided, while I was riding in the bike lane, through Rhodes NSW, that they didn't have to walk the 20m to the lights. They just wandered out into the road, and I missed them by about a metre.

While our police don't want to start enforcing the law, and patience is not observed by any of the parties, nothing will change.

I believe the only way to change attitudes is to make motorists and pedestrians spend a month as a cyclist to see how the other half lives.

I ride to work several days per week. The volume of traffic offences that I see motor vehicles involved in would amaze you. Please bear in mind that I also don't think that cyclists are above the law either.

cheers
Glenn
-----------
"Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever" Lance Armstrong
r2160
 
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:01 pm
Location: Bass Hill, NSW

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby rkelsen » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:51 am

hannos wrote:Hello Bill,

Registration is primarily to ensure the vehicle is roadworthy.
Secondary to that is identification.

In NSW, yes.

Here in Vic, a RWC is for life unless you let the rego lapse or the vehicle changes hands.
User avatar
rkelsen
 
Posts: 4317
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby The 2nd Womble » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:20 am

r2160 wrote:Bill

I can understand your point but let me make two others for you.

Incident A: I was riding on a saturday, last may. While riding, a driver in a vehicle apparently decided that the fact I was riding on the road caused him great offence. Despite the fact that I was doing nothing wrong, he sped up the road, got out of his car, and assaulted me as I went past. By assaulted, I mean king hit. I provided the registration number of the vehicle, a witness and a description of the person. NO CHARGES HAVE BEEN LAID.

Incident B: Whilst riding through Lidcombe, NSW, a truck decided that he didnt have to concern himself with my life or safety. He used his vehicle 3 TIMES to try to hit me. I provided VIDEO FOOTAGE of the incident, the registration number of the vehicle, and at this point, NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE.

You say that a cyclist having a registration plate will fix these things. It wont. Until ALL PARTIES, motorists, pedestrians AND cyclists decide to start obeying the law, and start to consider each other, a registration plate wont change a thing.

Ask me about the police that decided, while I was riding in the bike lane, through Rhodes NSW, that they didn't have to walk the 20m to the lights. They just wandered out into the road, and I missed them by about a metre.

While our police don't want to start enforcing the law, and patience is not observed by any of the parties, nothing will change.

I believe the only way to change attitudes is to make motorists and pedestrians spend a month as a cyclist to see how the other half lives.

I ride to work several days per week. The volume of traffic offences that I see motor vehicles involved in would amaze you. Please bear in mind that I also don't think that cyclists are above the law either.

cheers
Glenn

Can you give us vehicle descriptions & part rego's for SCA please? If we post theres always a chance the next rider can fo more to avoid the vehicles in question or file follow-up reports.
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves
User avatar
The 2nd Womble
 
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby rkelsen » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:29 am

BillWatson wrote:I still have not seen a valid reason (aside from cost, which would be significant) for not registering bikes.

And yet there have been several posted. If you ask a question, you have to be open to receiving answers you may not like. The validity or otherwise of said answers is subjective. They all seem perfectly valid to me.

You seem to have ignored Oxford's argument about sheer numbers.
User avatar
rkelsen
 
Posts: 4317
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby r2160 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:30 am

My intention is to edit the video down to the incident. As soon as I post it on Youtube, I will pop up a link for the world to see!!

cheers
Glenn
-----------
"Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever" Lance Armstrong
r2160
 
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:01 pm
Location: Bass Hill, NSW

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby DavidTomic » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:12 am

ZepinAtor wrote:
ldrcycles wrote: Plates for bicycles would probably be even smaller. Even if a cyclist was registered, it would be virtually impossible for anyone to get that number.


Especially if you reached back & covered it with your hand while waving at the red light camera with the other.


Does anybody know if a cyclist would even trigger a red light camera in the first place?
User avatar
DavidTomic
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:49 pm
Location: Caroline Springs, VIC

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby il padrone » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:19 am

rkelsen wrote:
BillWatson wrote:I still have not seen a valid reason (aside from cost, which would be significant) for not registering bikes.

And yet there have been several posted. If you ask a question, you have to be open to receiving answers you may not like. The validity or otherwise of said answers is subjective. They all seem perfectly valid to me.

There are none as blind as those that do not see, none as deaf as those that do not listen.

Bill seems to be following a formula that has been displayed by other new posters on here - "I don't ride a bike but have observed....." New posters with a hidden agenda perhaps ??

motorist comes to mind recently. You don't happen to live in Apollo Bay, Bill?
Last edited by il padrone on Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18265
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby skull » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:20 am

DavidTomic wrote:
ZepinAtor wrote:
ldrcycles wrote: Plates for bicycles would probably be even smaller. Even if a cyclist was registered, it would be virtually impossible for anyone to get that number.


Especially if you reached back & covered it with your hand while waving at the red light camera with the other.


Does anybody know if a cyclist would even trigger a red light camera in the first place?

Depends on the camera, so in some cases yes.



Sent from my not iDevice using Tapatalk 2
User avatar
skull
 
Posts: 1665
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:48 pm

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby hannos » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:22 am

DavidTomic wrote:
ZepinAtor wrote:
ldrcycles wrote: Plates for bicycles would probably be even smaller. Even if a cyclist was registered, it would be virtually impossible for anyone to get that number.


Especially if you reached back & covered it with your hand while waving at the red light camera with the other.


Does anybody know if a cyclist would even trigger a red light camera in the first place?


Interesting question.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/sp ... _faqs.html
2010 BMC SLC01
Image
User avatar
hannos
 
Posts: 4020
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:18 am
Location: Sydney

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby Percrime » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:30 am

The other day some appallingly incompetent jerk tried a 3 point turn up the driveway opposite,, fluffed it and clobbered my ute in the side.. Caving it in to the tune of a few thousand. And then bolted. We did get as far as ascertaining he belonged to the catholic church down the road (in all likelihood) Other than that we know s/he is incompetent and drives a white car.. and no one at the church feels like giving the ass up. How am I to get redress from him? Gotta hate organised religion and the values it teaches.

Suck it up princess... so many close overtakes happen every week that for a cyclist to bother to go after the car means it was bloody close. The kind of close thats probably your reason for not riding a bike. Shi$ scary brown trouser close. And yet that without malice close pass did not even let the driver get away...... gained nothing from it. Easy to prevent.. just become one of the averagely scary drivers and not the real homicidal losers. WHoever lost the mirror would have been centimetres away from putting someone in hospital for no advantage. And quite possibly would bolt and pretend they had not hit anyone.

I wish I was only up for a mirror
Percrime
 
Posts: 970
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:41 am

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby Mrfenejeans » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:33 am

I'd like to point out that a lot of motorists attempt to hide or alter their car registration plates so that they are either unreadable or obscured from photography by use of paints, and covers funnily enough to avoid what you are calling for Bill "Taking responsibility for ones actions". It may not seem that bad on the surface for motorists to do this in order to dodge paying a few fines here and there however it in its self encourages reckless behavior, because if you can run a red light or speed down a street and know that you will not be charged you would in fact be more likely to.

Alot of cyclists would most likely do the same thing, or more than likely not put the plates on in the first place and just say "Sorry Officer it must have been stolen while i was at work" how could a police officer argue with that sort of excuse it's logical.


BillWatson wrote:why should a cyclist not be able to be held accountable for any infringements or accidents they cause?


From my experience in handling motor vehicle insurance claims for my office, the number one rule for any accident is to not openly admit fault, this is something even our insurer will say. So how can someone be held accountable for there actions when the best course of action is to make sure every one is OK, say nothing, fill out paper work and leave it in the hands of your insurer to sort out.

The reason it's called an accident and not an "on-purpose" is because you did not intend for it to happen.



Thanks to the Media motorists thoughts on cyclists has become a real "Us vs. Them" argument of course most cyclists are also motorists so we see things in a different light.
Image
Image
User avatar
Mrfenejeans
 
Posts: 417
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:01 pm
Location: Kingsley

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby jules21 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:24 pm

BillWatson wrote: 1. On a nice sunny day on a a shared bike path a mother and young child are walking along the left hand side of the path. 2 cyclists riding two abreast, and at speed , fly past and without sounding their bell. One of the riders hits the small child with his peddle causing very bad injuries. Then races on without stopping. Question, how is the mother to hold the cyclist to account for this?


BillWatson wrote: If these incidents were to occur in a motor vehicle (which they do, and more often than with cyclists), then it may be possible to get the registration and let the police deal with them, however, at present it is impossible to hold a cyclist accountable, without either physically stopping them, or worse, chasing them though the streets.


Bill - the answer is, the govt is dealing with limited resources and cannot do everything hypothetically possible. a better approach is to focus on the measures with the "most bang for buck". now, the act of a cyclist seriously injuring a small child and riding off is disgusting, but in considering the need to take stronger action to protect against this scenario, the question must be asked: how big is the problem?

the answer is: very small. there was one pedestrian killed by a cycling on Beach Road, Melbourne a few years back. i'm sure there have been other, more minor incidents, but the risk posed by cyclists to public safety is particularly low.

the same question can be asked of motorists. the answer to this question is however, very different. motor vehicle cause a much higher rate of injury and death, in fact almost infinitely higher than cyclists.

in asking "what should we do to better prevent and hold road users accountable for causing injuries?" the logical answer is fairly clearly: take stronger measures against motorists. notably, the requirement for registration plates has seemingly done little to discourage irresponsible driving. other measures, such as stronger enforcement, have had more success and i share your concern for innocent victims of irresponsible road users. that's why the logical step is to take stronger action against motorists - not as we hate them or anything - it's just the measure that would be most effective.
Image
User avatar
jules21
 
Posts: 8635
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby AndyTheMan » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:31 pm

Hi Bill

Thanks for coming and asking questions in a respectful way.Like any forum/group, you will get a range of answers here – but don’t take any of it to heart if they are not ‘polite’ – some people can be like that (cyclist or otherwise).

I wanted to comment on a couple of things, for your consideration:

WHY NO REGISTRATION ?

Many of the arguments FOR registering bikes simply don’t stack up. We always hear the same arguments over and over:

a. usually that ‘registration’ pays for the road and you shouldn’t ride on the road unless you pay for it,
b. you will be able to identify wrong-doers.
c. Compulsory Insurance

Lets go through each of them, and the reasons why it wouldn’t work

PAYING FOR THE ROAD

Lets get it clear up front that registration DOES NOT PAY for the road – in NSW, the cost of registration for cars/motorcycles etc pretty much covers the cost of administering the registration system. From memory its only something like 7% of the cost of registering your car that actually makes it to ‘roads’ – Basically, 99.9% of the cost of roads comes from taxes and council rates. So car registration DOES NOT pay for the roads - roads are payed for by all taxpayers (whether you drive a truck, a car or only walk!).

COST PROHIBITIVE

The other point, as already mentioned above, is how would you determine how much to charge a cyclist? Cost of rego is determined by the bigger the vehicle, the more rego....so a hatch is less than a 4X4, and a ute is less than a truck... My current car is about $350 I think.... its a hatchback. So lets assume something like $50 or $100 for a bike (which seems reasonable). I think a motorcycle in NSW is about $200, so $50 works for me for the bike.

So at $50 (per adult cyclist per year - lets not include kids for example). Lets imagine that we spend $25 of that to make plates, so really only $25 goes towards the system itself The problem is that, if you look at your rego notice, you’ll note that it costs about $250 (depending on the State) to cover the administration of the system.

So that means that the government (ie taxpayer) will cover the cost of the other expenses?

Last year 1.3 million bicycles were sold in Australia, and 1.9 million ADULT Australians rode a bike at some stage – are you telling me that you would be happy (as a taxpayer) have to the government funding cycling registration – even though it would cost around $425 million EVERY YEAR (based on number of adult cyclists).

Even if the cost of registration is $100 – we are still requiring that the government chip in $140 million (JUST TO COVER THE COST OF ADMINISTRATION)

For that sort of cost, you are really wanting to see some type of GOOD benefits….

NUMBER PLATES AND IDENTIFYING WRONG DOERS

As pointed out above, this just doesn’t stack up.

Sure, you can write down a rego number, and phone the police all you want, but in reality, I would bet that you could not find THREE EXAMPLES in the last10 years where this has worked?

I would bet that its the same cyclists passing your street each day/week - so if the cops come around your could nab them tomorrow.... unlikely to happen though - phone the cops and see what happens...

If you look through the ‘stupid drivers’ thread on this forum (to balance it out we also have a ‘stupid cyclists thread’) you will see literally HUNDREDS of videos of people in cars, motorcycles and buses etc doing dangerous/illegal things.

So... we have people doing illegal things, even getting out of cars and punching people. These events are caught on VIDEO, with the registration plates make/model of the car clearly identifiable. its VERY rare that these end up with any type of police action. Maybe once a year??

Remember that this system will cost maybe $425 million per year JUST TO ADMINISTER....

The ‘identifying wrong doers’ argument doesn’t work – simply because we can already identify 90^% of people on the road, and it doesn’t stop accidents/idiots etc.


INSURANCE

The fact is that most ‘serious’ cyclists have insurance through one means or another. For example, members of Bicycle NSW are covered by insurance up to $20 mill, as with many cycling club memberships, the local triathlon club membership here is that same. Plus I am also covered by my household insurance and work insurance if I’m commuting….

Those that aren’t covered by insurance would generally be your weekend warriors, and of course kids.
\

So in summary, cycling rego means lots of cost, and no benefits – and that’s the reason why its never happened, and most likely never will.
AndyTheMan
 
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:52 am

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby Oxford » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:59 pm

On insurance, anyone with home/contents has similar insurance coverage for 3rd party damage property or personal.

Just checked my wife's rego, its $647 (4 cylinder), rounding off the numbers:
CTP $318
Rego $280
Traffic improvement fee $48

My moto rego (and I have two of these, do I get a discount as I do not ride both at the same time?):
CTP $260
Rego $97
Traffic improvement fee $48

Not sure what the TIF is but its not for roads I understand.
Building more roads to prevent congestion is like a fat man loosening his belt to prevent obesity.
- Lewis Mumford
User avatar
Oxford
 
Posts: 4992
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:49 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby jules21 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:06 pm

roads are paid for out of consolidated revenue (i.e. big chest of treasure guarded by govt security), but is roughly in line with fuel excise revenue.

what is unfunded by motorists are the various externalities - pollution, poor health, opportunity cost of road real estate (i think).
Image
User avatar
jules21
 
Posts: 8635
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:09 pm

Gidday Bill.

I have SOOOO many people who seek me out with an argument about the shortcomings of riders. In many/most cases they assume that I will take a set position that they expect of all riders. Not so (though sometimes I would put the person approaching me into the equivalent category onthe other side of the fence). Not all cyclists sing from the same song sheet.

Mulger Bill pretty well gave the basics re rego. The rego thing is a great big irrelevant furphy and no state goverment treasurer is interested in it.

About riders. I will not insult your intelligence by trotting out "small minority" prefix - there are many riders who act selfishly and self righteously and are just as guilty as some motorists when we make bad-faith self-serving arguments to justify our actions. On this forum we do try amongst ourselves to keep each other at least intellectualy honest in what we say. But out on the paths and roads, we have about as much effect as anyone else does in getting errant cyclists to modify their behaviour. Which is to say "very little effect".

Perhaps one day we can see you enjoying some of the benefits of riding btw. 8)
Unchain yourself - Ride a unicycle .Image
User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
 
Posts: 4694
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby trailgumby » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:28 pm

Regarding insurance.

There is at least one northern europan country (Sweden?) that has a scheme whereby the cyclist buys a sticker from their local bike shop at nominal cost (EUR5-15 or thereabouts) and applies it to their bike. They are then covered for any claims against them for injury, just like our Third Party cover for motor vehicles.

Registration and the display of a number is not an intrinsic prerequisite for cyclists to have insurance cover.

There are other ways of skinning that particular cat.
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

http://www.facebook.com/Drive2WorkDay
User avatar
trailgumby
 
Posts: 10262
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby GraemeL » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:55 pm

Some time ago a few of us here decided to make up "mock" registration plates and attach them to our bikes. I looked at various designs and sizes and as it turns out, the biggest size I could fit to the bike was way too small for anyone to read unless they were standing rather close.
In the event of an accident, I would say that the registration number would not be readable, because by the time the person reacted and realised they needed to get the number, the culprit would be too far away.

As for there being no way for a cyclist to be held accountable... The police manage to catch thieves etc with out the need for them to wear a rego plate, the point is if the police really want to put in the effort, they will catch you, regardless.

People riding two abreast on psp's really get up my nose and maybe the police need to start looking at patrols and target those who abuse the laws, cyclist or walker.


Graeme
***Looking For Information About Bicycle Cameras ***

* Bicycle Camera FAQ's *** Mounting FAQ’s & DIY Mounts *
GraemeL
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:47 pm
Location: Perth

Re: A question from a motorist

Postby Mrfenejeans » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:53 pm

GraemeL wrote: ...police need to start looking at patrols and target those who abuse the laws, cyclist or walker.


Graeme



But there is no Revenue to raise off these culprits that would amount to anything significant. Heck i myself was pulled over by some police officers while driving for being on my phone (Bad i know) however instead of getting fined something around $250 and 3 demerit points(which would teach me some lesson, as $250 would be that new work stand i want to buy) i got a slap on the wrist "don't do it again, ... Oh and your bike rack is obscuring your license plate you should take that off."
Image
Image
User avatar
Mrfenejeans
 
Posts: 417
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:01 pm
Location: Kingsley

PreviousNext

Return to Cycling Safety and Advocacy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit