Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

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Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby jamesn184 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:35 pm

I did 102km yesterday and found that I'd hit a wall so to speak on the last 10km were I just had nothing left in the tank (riding 3/4 of the way home with a headwind may of not helped)
I've done a couple before, first was broken up with 2 pit-stops and the last one was no real stops other then a nature break. And I pulled up well after the last one and could of kept going but would of ran out of water...

I've also since switched to High 5 ISO gel from using Shotz, I still use the same bars (either musashi/aussie bodys).

So after looking at some other power bars I cannot seem to pick from the Endura Energy bar or Powerbar Performance

Energy Protein Fat Carbs Sugar Sodium
Endura Pro Body Bar: Per 60g: 909kj 18.0g 6g 20g 6g 100mg
Endura Energy Bar: Per 60g: 1022kj 8.1g 6.4g 38.2g 19.1g 47.4mg
Powerbar Ride Bar: Per 55g: 892kj 10.2g 9.1g 22.5g 11.9g 110mg
Performance Bar:Per 55g: 924kj 8g 2g 40g 22g 230mg
Torq Bars: Per 100g 1346kj 3.8g 2.1g 71.7g 33.6g 49mg

So what would I need other then a gel/bar for when I start to ramp up my training and doing 150k rides in the coming weeks
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by BNA » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:19 pm

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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby cyclotaur » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:19 pm

What are you drinking?
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:29 pm

What is your night before and morning intake of food consist of? :idea:

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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby PawPaw » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:55 pm

Hitting the wall indicates one or more of the following:
- you ran out of glyocgen
- you got into moderate negative fluid balance
- you did too much length or intensity relative to your training base.

As a general guide:
- before getting on the bike in the morning, replace all the fluid you pee'd off since 8pm the night before, preferably with electrolyte.
- have a light to moderate carby breakfast.
- depending on sweat rate, climate, and body size, consume 600-1000mls an hour on the bike, preferrably an electrolyte with 2-6% carb.
- consume 1g carb/kg/hr on the bike. i.e. you weigh 70kg -> 70*4 = 280 Cals/hr. If you are drinking 6% carbed electrolyte, that will provide 144 Calories, and you will need to get another 140 Cals/hr from snacks (banana, muesli/sports bars, jam sandwich, etc)

The day before, you may only need an extra 1-2 cups of starch (rice, pasta, 2-4 slices of bread).
After the ride, try to have a snack within 20 mins of finishing, that contains carb and protein, and keep drinking 600ml an hour for 3-4 hours or urine becomes lighter in color than chardonnay wine.
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby jamesn184 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:37 pm

I usually have carbs the night before, either potato/sweet potato & pasta
the night before I had porterhouse with potato, carrots and peas.

Onto my intake during my rides:
I drink from 100-150ml per 15mins, take my gel about 1 1/2 - 2hrs and a bar at the 3hr mark and a high 5 zero drink when I get home.

I dare say Ill have to change this once I ramp up my training and riding for longer...
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:41 pm

Maybe you just rode too hard in the first part of your ride and couldn't sustain the same power in the 2nd part... Maybe you need to raise you sustainable power a bit.
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby jamesn184 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:37 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Maybe you just rode too hard in the first part of your ride and couldn't sustain the same power in the 2nd part... Maybe you need to raise you sustainable power a bit.


I can maintain the same pace just about coming back if there is no headwind.. even with a headwind I can still maintain 30km/h but during most of that ride I could only manage 25k due to the brutal headwind...

the last 100k ride I did, I was able to maintain roughly the same pace and didn't feel flat during or after the ride.

So Ill take a rough guess that If I do incur a headwind coming back I need to bump up my intake, as Ill be working harder then normal
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby cyclotaur » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:04 pm

cyclotaur wrote:What are you drinking?
jamesn184 wrote:Onto my intake during my rides:
I drink from 100-150ml per 15mins...

100-150 mls/15 mins of ....?

Hopefully water with something in it.
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:12 pm

What about the morning of the ride though, it's all good to have a good meal the night before but will do zip, if you don't back it up in the morning. :wink:

If you were still trying to maintain the same average speed into the head wind and didn't have the endurance level to suite, then this will do the same! :idea:

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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby jamesn184 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:37 pm

well before my morning rides ill have 6 weetbix or quaker oats
and I usually just have water up until I hit the 2hr mark and that's when Ill have something extra..
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby RonK » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:17 pm

Your intake on the road ( a few gels and a bar) doesn't seem enough to me...
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby cyclotaur » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:49 pm

jamesn184 wrote:well before my morning rides ill have 6 weetbix or quaker oats
and I usually just have water up until I hit the 2hr mark and that's when Ill have something extra..

Put some electrolyte powder in your drink from the start. Half the recommended concentration is enough for me.
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:22 am

jamesn184 wrote:well before my morning rides ill have 6 weetbix or quaker oats
and I usually just have water up until I hit the 2hr mark and that's when Ill have something extra..


That's not to bad but I have found that, Weetbix usually leaves me hungry after 2hrs (supposed to be low GI) :? but rolled oats a bit longer.

It maybe that you have not paced yourself well enough, for the level of fitness you have to be able to cover this distance, when a strong head wind has
been blowing. It happens to a lot of people getting caught out because it can be a little surprising how much extra effort is required. :wink:

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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby DoogleDave » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:53 pm

foo on patrol wrote:It maybe that you have not paced yourself well enough, for the level of fitness you have to be able to cover this distance, when a strong head wind has
been blowing. It happens to a lot of people getting caught out because it can be a little surprising how much extra effort is required. :wink:

Foo


Not sure if you keep an eye on your average speed or not to determine you level of effort during your ride (as I used to do), however if you do, I find it is much better to pick a comfortable cadence (somewhere around the 90 rpm mark) and then adjust your gear to suit the grade of the road or wind conditions. In a headwind or uphill you will end up going slower than on the flat or downhill, but you should be able to keep your effort around the same - you just have to accept that at certain times you have to ride slower (and as you get stronger and fitter the difference between the two will start to minimise).

As an example I can choose a harder gear and crank out 30+km/h with a slow cadence (70-80's) or I can change to an easier gear and up my cadence (100+) to do the same speed.
By doing so will work my cardio much more (which recovers relatively quickly) and is easier on the legs or I can stay in that hard gear and tire my legs out too early. This is also accentuated when riding into the wind or uphill. Generally, If I find I'm struggling it's likely to be because I'm in too high a gear and spinning to slow (working my legs too hard), so I'll drop a gear or two and spin faster.

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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:01 pm

Nah never had a speedo when I was racing!

It won't matter a brass razoo if you have pushed to hard prior to hitting the head wind. That's why I said if you have not paced yourself over the distance. :wink:
You will always be found out if, you don't have the level of fitness in your legs, to be able to do those extra Ks when condition change. :idea:

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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby Breakaway » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:16 pm

Trying to maintain the same speed into a headwind is tough.
It wasn't till I used a power meter that I realized just how much your power output does increase into the wind trying to keep the speed up.
Did you notice a rise in HR into the wind and by how much?
Judging your rides by speed averages is ok, but it's affected by many factors
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby ozstriker » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:31 pm

With regards to maybe a lack of base building.

Is riding 4 days of 50kms a week similar to riding 2 lots of 100 kms.

I'm just curious because not everyone has time to ride 100 kms often to build there base
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby vander » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:33 pm

ozstriker wrote:With regards to maybe a lack of base building.

Is riding 4 days of 50kms a week similar to riding 2 lots of 100 kms.

I'm just curious because not everyone has time to ride 100 kms often to build there base


Nope need to do the 100s if you want to be able to ride 100s easy.
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby toolonglegs » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:50 pm

vander wrote:
ozstriker wrote:With regards to maybe a lack of base building.

Is riding 4 days of 50kms a week similar to riding 2 lots of 100 kms.

I'm just curious because not everyone has time to ride 100 kms often to build there base


Nope need to do the 100s if you want to be able to ride 100s easy.


I hardly ever do 100's but could go out and do one at under 3 hours easily enough any day... I would be lucky to have done ten 100's in 11,000km this year :D .
Depends how you ride your 50's... 4 properly done 50's a week will be better than struggling to complete 2 slow 100's any day.
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby Breakaway » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:38 pm

+1 TLL
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby jamesn184 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:31 am

well Ill be doing another 100k on Friday, will be taking a little bit more food etc and see how I go
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby JV911 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:48 pm

jamesn184 wrote:the night before I had porterhouse with potato, carrots and peas.


I love a good steak as much as the next guy but tend not to ride well the following morning...feel sluggish

jamesn184 wrote:well before my morning rides ill have 6 weetbix or quaker oats


Try adding a squeeze of honey and a banana (I prefer fruit and nut muslie to weetbix)

And i'd be eating well before the 3 hour mark i.e. a banana or a cadel bar

Everybody is different though so you have to experiment until you find something that works.
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby DoogleDave » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:52 pm

jamesn184 wrote:well Ill be doing another 100k on Friday, will be taking a little bit more food etc and see how I go


How did you go on Friday James?

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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby jamesn184 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:02 pm

Actually did the 100k ride this morning and pulled up good after, had my 2nd water bottle as Gatorade which I drank from 1hr 45 onwards
Had my gel shot around 1hr 30mins & a protein/carb bar at 2hr 30mins..
Had no real headwind at all coming back which helped, overall kept up a total avg speed of 30.50km/hr and was maintain 35-37 on the flats

Going to have a crack at making rice cakes this week and use them to..
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Re: Hitting that wall.. what should I change?

Postby flow.rider » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:32 am

I did my 100 k yesterday on bananas, dried dates and apricots plus 5 bottles of water.

I ate a 4 bananas + 1 punnet of strawberries + 1 punnet of blueberries + water smoothie for breakfeast.

I've been riding maybe 2-3 months ( 2-3 weeks road bike)

Works for me.
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