Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby inline_online » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:56 am

Hi all,

Have any of you come across a guy in a business suit who rides his motor scooter on the cycle paths around the river? It is a proper motor scooter, not one of those electric bikes. He also wears a purple helmet.
It appears that his route is west along the Riverside Drive path, along the Narrows, then east along the South Perth cycle paths.

The first time I saw him I threw my arms up in the air in despair at the stupidity of some people. The next time I saw him it got very abusive as he threatened to...well, you don't want to know!!
I then didn't see him for a few months but i've seen him twice in the past three days and once again the guy has acted crazy. The second time he had enough time to get off his scooter and swing it around towards me. Fortunately I can skate a lot faster than he can move.
I'm a bit concerned that this fool is going to get violent one of these days. It makes me see red when I see him blatantly breaking the law like that. His vehicle belongs on the road, no two ways about it.
Perhaps some deep breaths next time I see him and a smile!!!

Cheers,
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by BNA » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:48 am

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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby Oxford » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:48 am

registration?
I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby moosterbounce » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:45 pm

I'd be putting on a gopro camera to capture some footage. Rangers will want to know especially if there's a pattern.
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby Baalzamon » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:23 pm

moosterbounce wrote:I'd be putting on a gopro camera to capture some footage. Rangers will want to know especially if there's a pattern.

My suggestion as well
Gopro with a chesty mount would suit you perfectly with roller blades.
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby uglybob » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:22 pm

what sort of times is he around? i haven't seen him as yet, and i'm on the riverside path pretty much every morning
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby inline_online » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:05 pm

I've only seen him in the evenings at about 1700-1730 hrs.
I don't think I can get a GoPro but i'll be at the row-boat shed (near Barrack St jetty) tonight with my phone set to video record.
I'll try and get his rego and pass it on to the CoP rangers.
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby uglybob » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:46 pm

good luck - sounds like he needs a visit from the boys & girls in blue!
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby inline_online » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:17 pm

Well, I caught up with my scooter driver tonight.
He stopped when he saw me filming him and we had a discussion.
Turns out that he is riding an electric bike with a power of 200W. It doesn't look like an e-bike as it has all the farings etc that make it look like a scooter. Hence my confusion!!
I mentioned to him that I was aware that 200W bikes were legal and I also apologised to him.
He has had the cops on his case three times in the past and they have had nothing on him as the bike is legal.
Next time I see him i'll give him a smile and a wave.
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:32 pm

inline_online wrote:Well, I caught up with my scooter driver tonight.
He stopped when he saw me filming him and we had a discussion.
Turns out that he is riding an electric bike with a power of 200W. It doesn't look like an e-bike as it has all the farings etc that make it look like a scooter. Hence my confusion!!
I mentioned to him that I was aware that 200W bikes were legal and I also apologised to him.
He has had the cops on his case three times in the past and they have had nothing on him as the bike is legal.
Next time I see him i'll give him a smile and a wave.


Have you ever seen him actually pedalling? Some of those electric Vespa clones only have pedals to fit them into the category of bicycle.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby Pushy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:21 am

This was definitely not an ebike and it was too loud.
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South Perth just east of the Narrows.
Lit him up helmet lights for a few seconds.
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby inline_online » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:09 am

Okay, i've finally managed to work out how to post a photo (thanks Pushy (Les) for your assistance there!!!).

This is the bike is question:
Image

It has pedals as you can see and has a big sign on the front saying 200W. It has been tested at 200 watts he reckons.
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby rolandp » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:56 am

BTA provided a response to the 'then' proposed changes to the Bicycle Regulations:
Power Assisted Pedal Cycles
The proposed changes do not indicate the type of motor, and it is requested if the word “electrical motor” could be used to describe the type of motor. This would remove diesel or petrol motors which produce fumes and noise, which can ruin the journey of those using the shared paths.

BTAWA would like the definition of Power Assisted Pedal Cycle to include:
‘continuous rated power not exceeding 250 watts, measured at the wheel, and can only be activated when the cyclist is pedalling and the bicycle is not exceeding a speed of 25km/h.’

In addition, BTAWA would like a comment provided by BikeWest to confirm that a change in this regulation will not significantly increase numbers on the shared paths, or if it does, the State Government has the funds to increase capacity on shared paths.


Unfortuantly these recommendations were ignored and we are now in the position of competing with 'power-assisted' bikes which can have any type of engine (electric, petrol etc). Even though the pictured bike has pedals, I would be very surprised they are used, but unfortuantly, the new regulations don't specify this, so the bike is 'legal'.

I've been overtaken by 'power-assisted' bikes travelling at over 30kms. I will try to locate some video this week-end as additional examples.
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby uglybob » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:20 pm

far out - looks like a scooter with a couple of false pedals attached. don't think i'd like to see many of those on the bike paths.
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:50 pm

inline_online wrote:Okay, i've finally managed to work out how to post a photo (thanks Pushy (Les) for your assistance there!!!).

This is the bike is question:
Image

It has pedals as you can see and has a big sign on the front saying 200W. It has been tested at 200 watts he reckons.

Without a top tube a structure like that needs to have some heavier framing. Add to that extra weight the cowling, the extra bulky seat, discs front and rear, reasonably weighty tyres, presumably gas-shocks front and rear, etc

I'd therefore assume in all probability that the 200W he has posted to the front is no more than an indication that he knows his archilles heel. If you come across him again see if you can get him to let you pick it up on a pretext. (Bear in mind however that the battery pack on even the legit ones are fairly weighty.)

Seriously. I would need far more than his word and his sign.

Or if anyone can find some specs for this beast on the internet...

(It does look pretty cool compared to the average ebike though 8) )
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:27 pm

A VERY close match is a morakot LS2 without the rear box. Much of the cowlings look to have come from the same mould, right down to where the little ridge-detailing and all.

So far those and similar from morakot are 500W, though I did see one spec sheet that specified the power as "201-500W", presumable it delivers a min of 201 when engaged.

However I have found a morakot of the same genera that is stated as "Australia 200W Electric motorised scooters with pedals--LS1" so perhaps they have some down-specced ones for us. Still hard to fathom though with what I would expect framewise as I stated earlier.

'cos I am bored and I have already gone for my ride today, I am gonna keep looking to find an exact match.

Of course, IN WA at least he is still not allowed to engage teh electric drive when on the shared path, though personally I put that reg along with the one that prohibits cyclists from riding two abreast on all PSPs and RSPs.
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby Marty Moose » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:45 pm

Does he ride it in a crazy fashion or is this just a case of him maybe being in the wrong ??
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby John Lewis » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:16 pm

A disabled chap down here had something similar. Weighed a ton, single speed and gutless. You would near kill yourself pedalling up hill even with motor assist. If the battery died it was hopeless. Must say it looked neat.
Speedwise it was pretty slow even on the flat.

He has since got an electric assist bike with gears. The pedal lec setup requires you to pedal or it won't go. There is no throttle for speed control. Seems to be one of sorts for low speed starting perhaps on a hill bu it only works at slow speed.
Point is its a much better set up

If the one pictured has something of a turn of speed then it is almost certainly in excess of 200W.

Colin, I think that ruling of electric on DUP's may have been removed or at least that was being discussed.

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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:32 pm

inline_online wrote:Okay, i've finally managed to work out how to post a photo (thanks Pushy (Les) for your assistance there!!!).

This is the bike is question:
Image

It has pedals as you can see and has a big sign on the front saying 200W. It has been tested at 200 watts he reckons.


Mulger bill wrote:Have you ever seen him actually pedalling? Some of those electric Vespa clones only have pedals to fit them into the category of bicycle.

Colin's right, he will have trouble picking it up. That be a moped.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby Kraeg » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:05 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Have you ever seen him actually pedalling? Some of those electric Vespa clones only have pedals to fit them into the category of bicycle.


A guy had one on a (Sydney) train once; he was telling me how the pedals made it allowable on the train (took up a lot of room in the vestibule area).
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby GregW » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:32 pm

Looks like a registration plate on the rear.
If so it meets all the ADR requirements and has no place on the shared paths.
These things and the petrol powered units are becoming more common.
Stopped a couple of idiots on these petrol units the other day.
They went past me at over 40kmh They were foolish enough to stop and try and argue with me.
All the claims they were only 200w, and they had been given the green light by the Warwick police.
I have sent a request to Warwick to ask if this is so and if so how would they expect them to travel to and from the shared paths on unregistered and illegal units.
Touble is if the cops don't know the rules or don't care what chance is there.
Even the smallest 48cc unit develops a lot more than 200w.
One of the distributers of these units states.....
ZBox can provide a high torque, 200 Watt engine kit that requires no registration for on road riding in most Australian states.
Based on our standard 48cc engine, the motor retains most of the low range torque and so, feels very similar to a standard 48cc engine.
Power delivery does, however, stop once the motorised bike has reached around 25kph and will not run faster than 30kph on a level road.
Our 200 watt engine has been tested and passed by government approved testing facilities and each motor kit comes with a certificate of approval identifying that the engine produces less than 200 watts of power.
No place for these things except private property, and even these electric units are becoming too heavy for speed attained to be on shared paths,
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:54 pm

GregW wrote:No place for these things except private property, and even these electric units are becoming too heavy for speed attained to be on shared paths,

On rejecting the use of paths by e-bikes I think we may be a bit precious and somewhat hypocritical if you consider our rejection of the attitudes of many motorists to sharing.

However you raise the issue of weight. I do think there needs to be some sort of mass and dimension limit for paths. As you say, a low-powered moped trundling at 25kph is going to make the paths a much more dangerous place. And so on this type of vehicle I firmly agree (if they are as heavy as they appear, and I can't see how they cannot be).

Of course, if we do go down the size path then some trikes and trailers could also be challenged. Maybe even tandems. :(

Cycling policy can be a rickety road to negotiate.

Does anyone know if there are mass or size limits to what can be taken on paths?
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby moosterbounce » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:14 am

If there's a mass or size limit on what can be on Ike paths, I might not be allowed!! :oops:
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby GregW » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:50 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
GregW wrote:No place for these things except private property, and even these electric units are becoming too heavy for speed attained to be on shared paths,

On rejecting the use of paths by e-bikes I think we may be a bit precious and somewhat hypocritical if you consider our rejection of the attitudes of many motorists to sharing.........................?


Think if you read it again you can see I was referring to IC motors.
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby queequeg » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:20 am

inline_online wrote:Okay, i've finally managed to work out how to post a photo (thanks Pushy (Les) for your assistance there!!!).

This is the bike is question:
Image

It has pedals as you can see and has a big sign on the front saying 200W. It has been tested at 200 watts he reckons.


In NSW at least, this Scooter is most certainly not legal:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/unregisteredvehicles/scootersminibikes.html

and

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_27_-_mopeds_and_power-assisted_pedal_cycles_july_2008.pdf

Bottom line, in NSW, simply having pedals on a scooter like this does not make it an electric bicycle. It must first and foremost be designed as a bicycle that is propelled via the pedals by the operator, and may have a supplementry motor assist. These scooters like the one pictured are clearly designed to be powered first and foremost by the motor, with the pedals beign supplementary. As such, in NSW, these MUST be registered and can't be ridden on Shared Paths/Bicycle Paths etc. Furthermore, the riders of these scooters muct hold a motorcycle licence and also wear a motorcycle helmet.
The rider in the photo, if he was in NSW, would be up for some very expensive fines for both operating the scooter on a path, and for not wearing an approved helmet. I also wonder if he has a motorcycle licence.
Does anyone have a link to the e-bike rules in WA?
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Re: Crazy Motor Scooter Driver

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:55 am

GregW wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:
GregW wrote:No place for these things except private property, and even these electric units are becoming too heavy for speed attained to be on shared paths,

On rejecting the use of paths by e-bikes I think we may be a bit precious and somewhat hypocritical if you consider our rejection of the attitudes of many motorists to sharing.........................?


Think if you read it again you can see I was referring to IC motors.

Sorry I missed that. What is an IC motor anyway?
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