Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Chris249 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:15 pm

This is such a long thread I thought I'd just ask a question or two of the experts rather than trying to find an answer. Hope it's OK.

1- Does anyone know of a 58mm Chinese carbon rim? My old Zipp 440 front took a hit a while ago and my rushed repair before the state titles has left a blip. I can get a carbon engineer to fix it for about $200-ish, but it may not be worth it for 20 year old wheels.

2 - If there is a 58 (or 60?) mm Chinese cheap carbon rim, does anyone have a rim-only price? The Zipps have an original front hub in vgc and an almost new DA rear hub, plus the spokes seem OK, and since bikes are very much #2 priority on my sport spend I'm not interested in getting complete new wheels.

Tubs not being the most usable of items I have only used the Zipps a few times before dropping the front into a massive pothole one night. It was good to see that the hardest impact I can recall on a bike lead to some rim delamination and braking issues due to the rim becoming wider in that area, but nothing that really hindered the safety IMHO. I'm just annoyed that I stuffed the repair up; I've done carbon work before but with rims it really takes only the tiniest issue with the fairing and you create a very annoying blip. And after all that the state titles were held in 74kmh gusts so I didn't use the blinking things anyway (partly because of the blip).

Cheers
There are many types of racing cyclists. There is the sprinter, the rouleur, the stagiaire, the danser, the descender.... sadly, I'm a mediocre. :-(

2003 Cervelo P2K time trial bike
2010 Merida Cyclocross 4
2008 Giant SS/track
2008 Vivente Como roadie
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by BNA » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:55 pm

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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby jheeno » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Chris249 wrote:This is such a long thread I thought I'd just ask a question or two of the experts rather than trying to find an answer. Hope it's OK.

1- Does anyone know of a 58mm Chinese carbon rim? My old Zipp 440 front took a hit a while ago and my rushed repair before the state titles has left a blip. I can get a carbon engineer to fix it for about $200-ish, but it may not be worth it for 20 year old wheels.

2 - If there is a 58 (or 60?) mm Chinese cheap carbon rim, does anyone have a rim-only price? The Zipps have an original front hub in vgc and an almost new DA rear hub, plus the spokes seem OK, and since bikes are very much #2 priority on my sport spend I'm not interested in getting complete new wheels.

Tubs not being the most usable of items I have only used the Zipps a few times before dropping the front into a massive pothole one night. It was good to see that the hardest impact I can recall on a bike lead to some rim delamination and braking issues due to the rim becoming wider in that area, but nothing that really hindered the safety IMHO. I'm just annoyed that I stuffed the repair up; I've done carbon work before but with rims it really takes only the tiniest issue with the fairing and you create a very annoying blip. And after all that the state titles were held in 74kmh gusts so I didn't use the blinking things anyway (partly because of the blip).

Cheers

1. closest is 60mm but i've only seem them for a pair ... based on the market prices i'm guessing $300s would be for the front alone
2. $350 delivered
[url]
http://www.!!! SPAMMER !!!/store/group/6 ... 22665.html [/url] Sorry link wont work so its www aliexpress then search 60mm rim .. but I rekon for that price you could get a full built one (and save yourself the money of buying spokes and lacing costs
but mid 500s gets you front and rears
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby nickobec » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:00 am

I purchased a FSL50-CM 24 Hole rim Weight 430g(+/-10g) for US $180 from FarSports

They also do a 60mm lightweight rim for probably $10 more

need to add shipping about $50 (for a pair of rims) and paypal fees of 4%
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Roger9 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:13 am

I'm lookinf at getting FSL50-CM from Farsport, and hoping for a wheelst close to 1300g.

Can you guys recommend a hub for a 80 kg rider? I like to ride pretty hard (for my age**).

Great forum and thanks
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby clydesmcdale » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:24 pm

New bike all done.

Frame – FM098 61cm Di2 Compatible 3K Matte (Group Buy 6)
Bars – HB003-42cm 3K Matte
Shifters – Campagnolo Ultrashift Ergos Super Record 11 speed
Front Derailleur – Campagnolo Super Record 11 speed
Rear Derailleur – Campagnolo Super Record 11 speed
Chainset – Campagnolo Record UT Carb 11 speed 175 39/53
Cassette – Campagnolo Chorus 11 speed 12-29
Chain – Campagnolo Chorus 11 speed
Brakes – Campagnolo Record D Skeleton
Pedals – Look Keo Classic
Saddle – Selle Italia C2 Gel Flow Black Saddle
Stem – 3T Arx Pro 100mm 6°
Bar Tape – 3T Black
Bottle Cages – FD009 3K Matte
Garmin Mount – K-Edge Black
Wheelset – Blade x 250 50mm Carbon Clincher 3K Matte
Tyres – Continental GP400s

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Only ridden once so far and is very enjoyable and slippery
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby jheeno » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:33 pm

clydesmcdale wrote:New bike all done.

Frame – FM098 61cm Di2 Compatible 3K Matte (Group Buy 6)
Bars – HB003-42cm 3K Matte
Shifters – Campagnolo Ultrashift Ergos Super Record 11 speed
Front Derailleur – Campagnolo Super Record 11 speed
Rear Derailleur – Campagnolo Super Record 11 speed
Chainset – Campagnolo Record UT Carb 11 speed 175 39/53
Cassette – Campagnolo Chorus 11 speed 12-29
Chain – Campagnolo Chorus 11 speed
Brakes – Campagnolo Record D Skeleton
Pedals – Look Keo Classic
Saddle – Selle Italia C2 Gel Flow Black Saddle
Stem – 3T Arx Pro 100mm 6°
Bar Tape – 3T Black
Bottle Cages – FD009 3K Matte
Garmin Mount – K-Edge Black
Wheelset – Blade x 250 50mm Carbon Clincher 3K Matte
Tyres – Continental GP400s



Only ridden once so far and is very enjoyable and slippery

I'm curious ... have you weighed it ?
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby clydesmcdale » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:53 pm

Not as yet, but from product weights i have it should be somwehere between 7-7.5kg. Could get it down as low as 6.4 in theory with lighter wheels, saddle and pedals, etc... in theory.

But for a 61cm frame with a close to 100kg rider i'm more than happy with the weight... also the wheels are rated to 130kg*

*according to the manufacturer.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby jaseyjase » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:48 pm

one bad ass mofo of a bike mate, nice work 8)

RD cable a tad short?
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby clydesmcdale » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:59 pm

jaseyjase wrote:RD cable a tad short?


:P Yeah could do with a bit more. :lol:

Because it's fully internally routed with cable outer and has no cable stops, the cable can slip in and out of the frame. Doesn't affect shifting performanace at all. Could potentially rub the frame though. Will probably put some heat shrink over the outer at both ends as it enters and exits to stop this happening.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby PawPaw » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:42 pm

clydesmcdale wrote:Because it's fully internally routed with cable outer and has no cable stops, the cable can slip in and out of the frame. Doesn't affect shifting performanace at all.


I reckon all your cables are too short.....
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby clydesmcdale » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:14 am

Both shifter cables are the length they come in the Campagnolo cable set and uncut. Brakes are cut as per spec. Shifting and braking is spot on and sharp.

Bike weighs 7650g.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby PawPaw » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:08 am

only joking. RD and RB could do with a trim.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby clydesmcdale » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:21 am

Thought as much. Where's that sarcasm font when you need it? May or may not trim. Depends on the level of my laziness... Which typically Is very high.

Steerer tube does need lopping a bit though. But wanted to wait and see how the fit ends up before taking the hacksaw to it.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby jamesn184 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:56 am

seem to have developed a lose spoke on my back wheel and something is loose in the hub as I can hear it rattle along..
has this happened to anyone else? (50ml clincher fs novatech hub)
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby PawPaw » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:53 pm

James, don't have novatech, but this happened with my hubsmiths....they were stuffed....and I needed a rebuild with new tougher hubs.
Get them looked at......

NOW FOR SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT

OK, I've got around 2500km on my Farsports 50mm CCs as of today. I went off to do some long slow distance to burn fat. Now, around half way, I decided to do a lap of Coot-tha. I'd never taken the CCs down the front before, and it was going to be the steepest and fastest descent. Anyways, through the roundabout near the kiosk, and down the steep bit.....speed building...building...then.....wobble....WOBBLE....try squeezing knees and moving wt back, then fwds, WOBBLE getting worse, speed still bulding.....I am in serious serious shlt. Steering out of my control...at this point I'm doing around 65kph, and total lateral movement is around 30-40cm. I am resigned to going down hard on the bitumen. Nothing I do is making a diff. I am yelling "come back, come back, come back" (control that is)....then I determine I have to get the speed off NOW.....so hit the rear brake hard....that stopped the wobble getting worse, then made it a little better. By this time I had crossed the white line and was on the wrong side of the road. The steering was that far gone. However, fortunately, more hard rear braking combined with knee squeezing finally got me back from the edge wobble wise. The slope eases out a bit, and I manage to come to a stop. I am totally totally freaked out. pale as a ghost. I honestly thought that was going to the last time I rode a bike, before being an invalid for the rest of my life.

About 30 seconds after I come to a stop, and am checking out wheel trueness, rim heat, tire condition, headset firmness, a riding buddy passes on the way up the hill, and yells out hello. Little did he know what I had just been through. I was wrecked.

Anyway, that was the 3rd time I've had really serious death wobble. Now, I've been coming down Beechmont Road from Binna Burra going faster over the last month, but with my training wheels....and never had a hint of DW. I can only think the FS CCs are more prone to it with my frame, due to their lighter mass.

So, all I can say is if you are transitioning to lighter wheels, test them progressively.
When I got to the bottom to return a call to a mate, I realized during the wobble, my half full water bottle had come out. I rode back up to the kiosk looking for it, but couldn't find it.....that should give you an idea of how violent the wobble was.

So, next thing I am doing is getting the bike thoroughly inspected and serviced. I never ever want another episode like that.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby clydesmcdale » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:27 pm

Holy cr@p that does not sound fun! Glad you're ok. Was wincing just reading that. Understand how you would be totally freaked out after that.

Let us know the results of the servicing
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby PawPaw » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:30 pm

clydesmcdale wrote:Holy cr@p that does not sound fun! Glad you're ok. Was wincing just reading that. Understand how you would be totally freaked out after that.

Let us know the results of the servicing


Will do. Am piking on a 100k 2000m ride tomorrow, to do a few Hail Marys and log some good karma.
This is the set up I was on. Farsport CCs (with Zipp decals, for aesthetics :))
The Trek frame has never wobbled like this before with the original 1.9kg Bontrager Race Light wheels.
And I weigh 85kg.
I've had the saddle all the way forward since doing an ITT a few months ago. This morning I had my bum behind the saddle.
Think I'll put the saddle back a 6-8mm. Have had a bit of feedback from my group, and getting weight right back is the consensus for intermittent DWs.
I'm also going to take a systematic scientific approach to finding out exactly what's happening, which means progressively pushing the speed down the hill multiple times, and varying one bike fit variable at a time. I just have to get to the bottom of this. But first call is LBS for comprehensive inspection. I've always felt undertensioned skewers, wheels not seated properly, loose headsets, and untrue wheels were likely culprits.

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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby jheeno » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:11 pm

PawPaw wrote:James, don't have novatech, but this happened with my hubsmiths....they were stuffed....and I needed a rebuild with new tougher hubs.
Get them looked at......

NOW FOR SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT

OK, I've got around 2500km on my Farsports 50mm CCs as of today. I went off to do some long slow distance to burn fat. Now, around half way, I decided to do a lap of Coot-tha. I'd never taken the CCs down the front before, and it was going to be the steepest and fastest descent. Anyways, through the roundabout near the kiosk, and down the steep bit.....speed building...building...then.....wobble....WOBBLE....try squeezing knees and moving wt back, then fwds, WOBBLE getting worse, speed still bulding.....I am in serious serious shlt. Steering out of my control...at this point I'm doing around 65kph, and total lateral movement is around 30-40cm. I am resigned to going down hard on the bitumen. Nothing I do is making a diff. I am yelling "come back, come back, come back" (control that is)....then I determine I have to get the speed off NOW.....so hit the rear brake hard....that stopped the wobble getting worse, then made it a little better. By this time I had crossed the white line and was on the wrong side of the road. The steering was that far gone. However, fortunately, more hard rear braking combined with knee squeezing finally got me back from the edge wobble wise. The slope eases out a bit, and I manage to come to a stop. I am totally totally freaked out. pale as a ghost. I honestly thought that was going to the last time I rode a bike, before being an invalid for the rest of my life.

About 30 seconds after I come to a stop, and am checking out wheel trueness, rim heat, tire condition, headset firmness, a riding buddy passes on the way up the hill, and yells out hello. Little did he know what I had just been through. I was wrecked.

Anyway, that was the 3rd time I've had really serious death wobble. Now, I've been coming down Beechmont Road from Binna Burra going faster over the last month, but with my training wheels....and never had a hint of DW. I can only think the FS CCs are more prone to it with my frame, due to their lighter mass.

So, all I can say is if you are transitioning to lighter wheels, test them progressively.
When I got to the bottom to return a call to a mate, I realized during the wobble, my half full water bottle had come out. I rode back up to the kiosk looking for it, but couldn't find it.....that should give you an idea of how violent the wobble was.

So, next thing I am doing is getting the bike thoroughly inspected and serviced. I never ever want another episode like that.


ok so i'm a bit confused
you were wobbling left and right ? wobbling .. like a snake ? if so .. sounds a bit like maybe the QRs came lose or were too lose perhaps and were losing contact with the dropouts ?
how about the brakes though i read that you had rear brakes ... did the brake pad / rim surface fail to service it's purpose ? did the wobble feel as though it was the spokes bending as in you'be lost stiffness ?
The thing is ... I've felt the same thing you have felt BUT on my trek with fulcrums ... after trying other bikes i concluded it was my frame that was causing the wobble as if the frame was not up for faster than 50km/h fast descending ..

by the way if the skewers look like this
Image
I can tell you now that they are rubbish
the front are fine but the rears ... no matter how tight ... they don't get enough grip on the dropouts
i did my own test where it appeared like it was fine, tipped the bike upside down and the rears were gripping then i went for a test ride and i was off the saddle kicking the pedals like a mountain climb and snap .. rear skewer lost grip

a quick google search and I have found others
http://blog.simiya.com/2010/03/01/how-to-survive-a-bicycle-death-wobble/
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/trek/wobbly-madone-geometry-247117.html
http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/speed-wobble-question-velonews-19774-2.html
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=91461&start=15
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby PawPaw » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:52 am

jheeno, the wobble was classic death wobble, where the front end starts wobbling side to side, then it progressively increases and transfers through the whole frame. The front wheel continues to go through a reasonably straight trajectory. As I said, it was so severe the water bottle was thrown out of its bidon.

I have the same skewers, and I am always careful to tighten them properly, because loose skewers has caused excessive lateral wheel movement in the past.
The wobble has never happened with my heavier wheels so I don't think it is purely the frame.

I'm going to buy a set of alloys around 1500-1600g, and use them for longer rides, and keep the CCs for flat club rides and racing.
I am interested to hear what my mechanic says, and will report it here.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby jheeno » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:35 am

PawPaw wrote:jheeno, the wobble was classic death wobble, where the front end starts wobbling side to side, then it progressively increases and transfers through the whole frame. The front wheel continues to go through a reasonably straight trajectory. As I said, it was so severe the water bottle was thrown out of its bidon.

I have the same skewers, and I am always careful to tighten them properly, because loose skewers has caused excessive lateral wheel movement in the past.
The wobble has never happened with my heavier wheels so I don't think it is purely the frame.

I'm going to buy a set of alloys around 1500-1600g, and use them for longer rides, and keep the CCs for flat club rides and racing.
I am interested to hear what my mechanic says, and will report it here.

I see
found sine youtube clips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xODNzyUbIHo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfngbsIUSj8&feature=related
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby azeng97 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:55 pm

clydesmcdale wrote:New bike all done.

Frame – FM098 61cm Di2 Compatible 3K Matte (Group Buy 6)
Bars – HB003-42cm 3K Matte
Shifters – Campagnolo Ultrashift Ergos Super Record 11 speed
Front Derailleur – Campagnolo Super Record 11 speed
Rear Derailleur – Campagnolo Super Record 11 speed
Chainset – Campagnolo Record UT Carb 11 speed 175 39/53
Cassette – Campagnolo Chorus 11 speed 12-29
Chain – Campagnolo Chorus 11 speed
Brakes – Campagnolo Record D Skeleton
Pedals – Look Keo Classic
Saddle – Selle Italia C2 Gel Flow Black Saddle
Stem – 3T Arx Pro 100mm 6°
Bar Tape – 3T Black
Bottle Cages – FD009 3K Matte
Garmin Mount – K-Edge Black
Wheelset – Blade x 250 50mm Carbon Clincher 3K Matte
Tyres – Continental GP400s

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Only ridden once so far and is very enjoyable and slippery


wow that's really nice :) any more comments on how it rides?
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby jamesn184 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:24 am

Well had the back wheel true'd, the little rattle noise was just the nipple broken off
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Supafly46 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:22 pm

Hi, I have a few questions, i have posted this in the shed, might be more appropriate here though,

Looking at putting together a custom wheelset using a set of ksyrium SL hubs that i have spare. So question is, will I be able to do this using something like Sapim spokes and Carbon 50mm rims from a Chinese supplier?

Its going to cost me nearly the same as buying a Yishun set of 50mm so the next question is _ worth doing on those hubs vs Novatech or whatever brand hub they ship with? I already have a set of SLs and find they ride very nice, so assume shouldnt be very different on carbon rims.

Thanks

Kev
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby azeng97 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:05 pm

Supafly46 wrote:Hi, I have a few questions, i have posted this in the shed, might be more appropriate here though,

Looking at putting together a custom wheelset using a set of ksyrium SL hubs that i have spare. So question is, will I be able to do this using something like Sapim spokes and Carbon 50mm rims from a Chinese supplier?

Its going to cost me nearly the same as buying a Yishun set of 50mm so the next question is _ worth doing on those hubs vs Novatech or whatever brand hub they ship with? I already have a set of SLs and find they ride very nice, so assume shouldnt be very different on carbon rims.

Thanks

Kev


You probably won't save much, and the Novatec 372s or 482s are fine, so its probably not worth all the trouble of building your own wheels.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby nickobec » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:41 am

azeng97 wrote:You probably won't save much


Ditto, difference between 50mm carbon clincher rim + sapim Xray spokes (I bought to lace to a powertap.) and a built wheel with hub, sapin spokes and carbon rim is about $40.
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