HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby greyhoundtom » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:12 pm

I know where I can get a bucket of tar, and I’m sure I have suitable brush somewhere in the shed..................now if someone could find a chook we could pluck........... :roll:
User avatar
greyhoundtom
 
Posts: 2486
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:28 am
Location: Narre Warren, Victoria

by BNA » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:35 pm

BNA
 

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby clackers » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:35 pm

warthog1 wrote:
I didnt read it that way, more the strong willed personality?


Thank you, Warthog - it's exactly what I meant. Linda seems awesome.
User avatar
clackers
 
Posts: 1738
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 10:48 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby wombatK » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:50 am

clackers wrote:
warthog1 wrote:
I didnt read it that way, more the strong willed personality?


Thank you, Warthog - it's exactly what I meant. Linda seems awesome.

Linda may have been strong willed (sorry, can't say, 'coz haven't read the book).

Strong willed riders walked away from the peloton when it was cheating.

LA gave in to the temptation of drug cheating - that's the opposite : weak willed.
His failure to acknowledge his guilt is equally weak.
WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
User avatar
wombatK
 
Posts: 5097
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
Location: Yagoona, AU

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby warthog1 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:56 am

wombatK wrote:Strong willed riders walked away from the peloton when it was cheating.

LA gave in to the temptation of drug cheating - that's the opposite : weak willed.
His failure to acknowledge his guilt is equally weak.


You can accuse LA of alot of things, I would not list weak willed amongst them :?
User avatar
warthog1
 
Posts: 2260
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:12 am

warthog1 wrote:You can accuse LA of alot of things, I would not list weak willed amongst them :?


I would tend to agree with you and would read it that decisions to dope or decisions to play the game are very goal orientated "What do I need to do to acheive this goal" (or the best possible results).


Hamilton said in the ABC 7:30 report that with his doping he had lied to friends and family, even parents. There is massive pressure to save face and at the moment, even if he openly admitted to doping, he has now gained so much support from loyal fans that I think many forgive him rather that turn on him in disgust - there are now two clear groups, those for and those against and I don't see any major defections (except if the USADA put their arms up and said "Whoop's sorry, we made big mistake on this".)
User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Tommi » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:16 am

I think LA has purely had enough. If you spend your whole life fighting against something that won't stop until it gets what it wants it can become very tiresome and monotonous. I don't blame him for not fighting it anymore and to just move on.

Sometimes it is just better to walk away and cut your losses.
Tommi
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:56 pm

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby greyhoundtom » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:23 am

Regardless of what has been published about LA, or what the eventual outcome will be, I will still be happy to wear my Livestrong jersey. :D
User avatar
greyhoundtom
 
Posts: 2486
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:28 am
Location: Narre Warren, Victoria

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby darkelf921 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:53 am

LA's year just got worse. He accidentally tweeted his mobile number to the world.
Image
My YouTube channel http://goo.gl/UlJrkN
User avatar
darkelf921
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:03 pm

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby mrs slocombe's pussy » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:14 pm

Tommi wrote:I think LA has purely had enough. If you spend your whole life fighting against something that won't stop until it gets what it wants it can become very tiresome and monotonous. I don't blame him for not fighting it anymore and to just move on.

Sometimes it is just better to walk away and cut your losses.


sometimes its better to admit the truth.
mrs slocombe's pussy
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:51 pm

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby greyhoundtom » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:33 pm

mrs slocombe's pussy wrote:
Tommi wrote:I think LA has purely had enough. If you spend your whole life fighting against something that won't stop until it gets what it wants it can become very tiresome and monotonous. I don't blame him for not fighting it anymore and to just move on.

Sometimes it is just better to walk away and cut your losses.


sometimes its better to admit the truth.

The truth...........you want the truth..............some people can’t handle the truth.

Does my bum look big in this? :lol:
User avatar
greyhoundtom
 
Posts: 2486
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:28 am
Location: Narre Warren, Victoria

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:42 pm

Tommi wrote:I think LA has purely had enough. If you spend your whole life fighting against something that won't stop until it gets what it wants it can become very tiresome and monotonous. I don't blame him for not fighting it anymore and to just move on.

Sometimes it is just better to walk away and cut your losses.

But, pray tell, why didn't he walk away a step or two earlier in the process? I can hazard a guess - There were still legal games he could play to stave off facing the charges, the witness and the evidence.

Or why didn't he remain one step in the process longer. I'll hazrd a guess again. Because he would then have had to face the evidence in an environment where he risks jail time if he lies. Al la Marion Jones.

No, he "had enough" just at the penultimate moment, not a moment before and not a moment after.

In case you are under the influence of earlier spin, it is not USADA that has been fighting to keep the evidence under wraps, it has been Armstrong and his lawyers. As he has done all along, Armstrong's actions frustrated that. The next step would have seen that evidence presented and tested. Under oath. And in a place where control cannot be exercised by minders, spin doctors and people favorably disposed to you. And where it is extremely difficult to avoid responding. I'll hazard a guess as top why. That he had no way of explaining away the evidence presented. Better to not let anyone else see that evidence and so, in some minds, keep the question of his guilt questionable. Not a good outcome for an innocent but certainly a better one if guilty.
Last edited by ColinOldnCranky on Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Unchain yourself - Ride a unicycle .Image
User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
 
Posts: 4293
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:58 pm

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:52 pm

Tommi wrote:I think LA has purely had enough.


He probably has had enough but the decision was about timing. It is the best time for him to withdraw as it allows the "question of doubt" to remain. The verdict is in though as the evidence hasn't yet been released it is, in the mind of the public, inconclusive. Once the USADA evidence is released can it be concluded. If Lance was able to continue to prolong or avoid, he would have done so and I am fairly certain his legal team has looked into all of the possibilities.


Let's have a look into the future, when the evidence from the USADA is released, will the spin machine start up again to cast doubt on the validity of it? I keep on thinking of Bill Clinton and how he is such a charismatic personality but got himself in and out of trouble - if Lance continues to play his cards right he retains his celebrity status without a Floyd Landis effect.
User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby wombatK » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:50 pm

AUbicycles wrote:
Tommi wrote:I think LA has purely had enough.


He probably has had enough... will the spin machine start up again to cast doubt on the validity of it?

If he really has had enough,where would he find the energy to get involved or defend himself when the evidence is released ?
It would be contradictory at least, and maybe hypocritical, for him to suddenly find the energy to put his spin on the evidence.

Not saying he won't do exactly that, or that it would be worth any skerrick of credibility. Nonetheless, there'll be people
who'll believe it just like there are people who believe Bill did not have sexual relations with that woman.

Cheers
WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
User avatar
wombatK
 
Posts: 5097
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
Location: Yagoona, AU

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:27 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:Or why didn't he remain one step in the process longer. I'll hazrd a guess again. Because he would then have had to face the evidence in an environment where he risks jail time if he lies. Al la Marion Jones.

Lying to the face of the USADA won't get you sent to jail, it is not a court of law... Marion Jones was facing a federal panel ( or whatever you call it ), the federal case that involved LA was dropped.
Image
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14064
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:30 am

toolonglegs wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:Or why didn't he remain one step in the process longer. I'll hazrd a guess again. Because he would then have had to face the evidence in an environment where he risks jail time if he lies. Al la Marion Jones.

Lying to the face of the USADA won't get you sent to jail, it is not a court of law... Marion Jones was facing a federal panel ( or whatever you call it ), the federal case that involved LA was dropped.


Ironically it would be the many witnesses and not Armstrong, if their testimony to USADA was inconsistent with their testimony to the Grand Jury, who would be at risk of jail time.
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby alex » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:41 am

toolonglegs wrote:Lying to the face of the USADA won't get you sent to jail, it is not a court of law... Marion Jones was facing a federal panel ( or whatever you call it ), the federal case that involved LA was dropped.


the case has been dropped but has not been 'closed' - personally i expect it will get moving again after the election and after the 'mysterious witnesses' all receive their sanctions

we don't know if cancer jesus has made any statements to the federal investigators. but if he has then you can be assured that he lied to them. perhaps that is the reason for his continuing denial, to stay out of jail...
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
alex
 
Posts: 1000
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:12 am

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby roller » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:10 pm

if armstrong had really had enough, he wouldn't be lobbying behind the scenes to get the political wheels in motion to shut the USADA down:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/ ... 57593548/1
Image
User avatar
roller
 
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:17 pm
Location: embleton

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby norbs » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:25 pm

Having just finished "The Secret Race", either Hamilton is a brilliant fiction writer, or Lance is a cheat, bully, liar and coward!

I thought I had a reasonable handle on the doping thing, until I read that book. Wow.
User avatar
norbs
 
Posts: 2314
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:20 am
Location: Shoalhaven. NSW

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:03 pm

wombatK wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:He probably has had enough... will the spin machine start up again to cast doubt on the validity of it?

If he really has had enough,where would he find the energy to get involved or defend himself when the evidence is released ?
It would be contradictory at least, and maybe hypocritical, for him to suddenly find the energy to put his spin on the evidence.

Not saying he won't do exactly that, or that it would be worth any skerrick of credibility.


To expand on this, he has still chosen the right moment to officially withdraw rather because he has no more energy to continue his defense.

The link to the USAtoday article (linked above) covering the group of state lawmakers who want Congress to investigate his agency in the wake of the Lance Armstrong sanctions is interesting. As Lance was actively defending his case by the USADA he used political influence to try and get the case thrown out but didn't suceed.

This is an interesting quote from that article - a Senator questioning the finances and operations of the USADA:
Sen. Michael J. Rubio wrote:We ought to have a fair and just process to determine whether or not speculation leads to someone being guilty...


Of course the investigation if there was an investigation in the USADA and their (financial) books were not in order, of course that would mean the case against Lance in invalid... right? All the more reason for the evidence to come out.

wombatK wrote:Nonetheless, there'll be people who'll believe it just like there are people who believe Bill did not have sexual relations with that woman.


In context I meant about the credibility of the person rather than the deed.
User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby alex » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:50 pm

AUbicycles wrote:
Sen. Michael J. Rubio wrote:We ought to have a fair and just process to determine whether or not speculation leads to someone being guilty...




that has already been decided by the courts
if i get killed while out on my bike i dont want a 'memorial ride' by random punters i have never met.
alex
 
Posts: 1000
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:12 am

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:33 pm

The previous suggestion was that spin and lobby work is still in progress by Lance Armstrong and currently Senators are again raising challenge to this USADA decision.
So I found the quote from Senator Rubio to be somewhat off the mark.
User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby Xplora » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:42 pm

alex wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:
Sen. Michael J. Rubio wrote:We ought to have a fair and just process to determine whether or not speculation leads to someone being guilty...




that has already been decided by the courts

This is totally missing the point of the SENATOR'S comment. These bodies are controlled by rules that people like him in the "Parliament" vote for and review. The rules are only what they are because someone has made them and others agreed. They are subject to change... the USADA is to serve the people, the people aren't there to serve the USADA.

The court would have found a completely different answer if the statutes prescribed them. Common law never beats the Parliament.
Xplora
 
Posts: 4730
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby wombatK » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:54 pm

Xplora wrote:
This is totally missing the point of the SENATOR'S comment. These bodies are controlled by rules that people like him in the "Parliament" vote for and review.

Rules ? Then speculation has absolutely nothing to do with it, and a Senator ought to know better than to
be suggesting that USADA acts on anything less than the rules laid out by the legislature.
WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
User avatar
wombatK
 
Posts: 5097
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
Location: Yagoona, AU

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby high_tea » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:15 am

wombatK wrote:
Xplora wrote:
This is totally missing the point of the SENATOR'S comment. These bodies are controlled by rules that people like him in the "Parliament" vote for and review.

Rules ? Then speculation has absolutely nothing to do with it, and a Senator ought to know better than to
be suggesting that USADA acts on anything less than the rules laid out by the legislature.

I thought the senator was arguing for a more formal process. A tribunal with appeals lying to a local court or something. That's a pretty parochial view, quite apart from the fact that regulating bike racers ought to be fairly low on any sane person's agenda.

What statute does the USADA operate under anyway? Honest question.
high_tea
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:10 pm

Re: HOLY showtime!!! Amstrong accepts life ban!!!

Postby zero » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:14 pm

high_tea wrote:
wombatK wrote:
Xplora wrote:
This is totally missing the point of the SENATOR'S comment. These bodies are controlled by rules that people like him in the "Parliament" vote for and review.

Rules ? Then speculation has absolutely nothing to do with it, and a Senator ought to know better than to
be suggesting that USADA acts on anything less than the rules laid out by the legislature.

I thought the senator was arguing for a more formal process. A tribunal with appeals lying to a local court or something. That's a pretty parochial view, quite apart from the fact that regulating bike racers ought to be fairly low on any sane person's agenda.

What statute does the USADA operate under anyway? Honest question.


USADA operates as an outsourcing supplier to USOC (though it is a seperate non profit corp USOC created for the purpose) - USOC itself was created and authorised by the Ted Stevens act of congress.

It already is a tribunal - the panel selection is 1 by the athlete, 1 by USADA, and a neutral they both agree on, and the right of appeal also exists, but it goes to CAS, not a local court, which IMO makes sense.
Basically its all an exercise in forum shopping by armstrong anyway.
zero
 
Posts: 2585
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:54 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BentleyO, MSNbot Media



Support BNA
Click for online shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Cycling Express Cycling Express
Ebay Ebay AU
ProBikeKit ProBikeKit UK
Evans Cycles Evans Cycles UK
JensonUSA Jenson USA
JensonUSA Competitive Cyclist