TT position

Individual and Team TT

TT position

Postby Parrott » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:36 pm

I found time in the tt position helps true but work on my flexibility enabled me to improve the pozzy. That stretch and simple hamstring stretches ( touching toes etc). Doing martial arts with the kids helped also.

If you are already stretching and working on your core that's the extent of my limited knowledge.

No tts here. I need help on my climbing, I suck at it :(
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by BNA » Fri May 18, 2012 7:03 pm

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Re: TT position

Postby simurs4 » Fri May 18, 2012 7:03 pm

i just put on my T2+ aerobars haven't gone out for a ride yet will test them out tommorow i just wanted to see what you guys thought of my position, i haven't touched my seat yet so i can still move it forward but is this an alright starting position to work from?
sorry for the cruddy picture btw.

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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Fri May 18, 2012 8:06 pm

Can't tell much from the angle of the photo ... in fact it looks like a horrible position like that... get someone to take a photo straight on from a bit further away ( in cycling gear ).
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Re: TT position

Postby Baldy » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:42 pm

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Got a fit done before the state TT champs. I am purely age group filler!It was my 3rd TT and I think I got 7th from 10. Got 31:16 for 20km. I think the winner in MA2 was 26min something...

The goal is to break 30min. The fit+wheels+general training helped take 43secs off my previous time. So I hope to get 30min by the end of the year.

Saddle height/position is unchanged from my normal setup, I am proportioned such that it fits the tt position ok. Stem is variable wedge stem, stock spec one I think they are -+17/8. Its 100mm compared to the 120 I run, I could possibly go shorter and lower but its what I had already[came on the bike] so it will do. The 20mm dust cover had to go, which is no prob because that's my regular position now[steer is cut].

My first 40km TT on the 22nd. Same bit of road just 5km further out to the turn, its a lumpy 5km too so should be tough. No idea what average to expect!

No TT helmet. I might think about one when I get that 40kph av on the 20km. Until then I'll just work on the engine/pacing[which is where I struggle] I race in skins compression jersey/knicks which are pretty aero, enough that its not worth me getting a skinsuit.
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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:07 am

Doesn't look too bad Baldy... For a road frame you seem to have a pretty straight back although your head is still up in the wind.
I jumped back on the pretend tt bike again today... Dropped the adjustable stem down a bit more and lifted the bars that rotated forward last tt... Next step would be removing the last 1cm spacer under the stem. But my elbow rests are now below the top of the head tube anyway... really on the limit with this frame..
Felt pretty good... I thought tt season was over for me already after just 2 this season but I booked into one on sunday. Only problem being it is graded... If I win I go up to cat 1... So going to take the risk that someone really fast will turn up.
Anyway the more time I spend crushed up the more natural it becomes... Kept a 35km av today over 55kms with a good climb thrown in... And as a mate stole one of my favourite kom's last night I had to go back and have a go!!!.
Last time I did this segment in march and held 44.5 kmph for the 5.7kms... Today managed 46.7kmph :-) ( with 50mm wheels, 25mm tyres, pockets full of pumps and tubes etc... only advantage is I didn't have my road helmet on, I think riding no helmet is probably faster :D , no way I am going to put TT helmet on for training!)... plus I got held up with traffic and bad wind direction.
Definitely need to find a tt frame for next year!!!.
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Re: TT position

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:49 am

Do I detect N+1
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Re: TT position

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:37 am

Baldy wrote:Got a fit done before the state TT champs.

No TT helmet. I might think about one when I get that 40kph av on the 20km. Until then I'll just work on the engine/pacing[which is where I struggle] I race in skins compression jersey/knicks which are pretty aero, enough that its not worth me getting a skinsuit.

Bars that provide elbow supports, and not forearm supports would be much better.

Don't discount the helmet and skinsuit. Aero matters for everyone.
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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:10 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Do I detect N+1

who me?... N+1 will have to wait till I am working properly again!.

(AT) what Alex said... I didn't click when I saw those aero bars... You will get a lot further forward for sure.
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Re: TT position

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:51 pm

toolonglegs wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:Do I detect N+1

who me?... N+1 will have to wait till I am working properly again!.

(AT) what Alex said... I didn't click when I saw those aero bars... You will get a lot further forward for sure.

It's no so much that, as the additional work you end up doing when supported mid-forearm rather than directly under the vertical upper arm.

With a mid-forearm support, you end up pivoting on that point and tensing up the shoulders and gripping with the hands as you support your upper body.

You should require almost no effort to support your upper body, which is what having the supports placed under the vertical line of your upper arm does, leaving you freer to play games with "turtling" and "shoulder shrugging" to further reduce air resistance, let alone remain more relaxed and hold your position longer, and/or when under pressure of going maximally for the duration.
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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:29 pm

Ah ha... I see. So the more you keep your upper body relaxed the more you can drop down in your position.
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Re: TT position

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:44 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Ah ha... I see. So the more you keep your upper body relaxed the more you can drop down in your position.

and the more you can focus on the effort. You also steer better too.
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Re: TT position

Postby Baldy » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:42 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
Baldy wrote:Got a fit done before the state TT champs.

No TT helmet. I might think about one when I get that 40kph av on the 20km. Until then I'll just work on the engine/pacing[which is where I struggle] I race in skins compression jersey/knicks which are pretty aero, enough that its not worth me getting a skinsuit.

Bars that provide elbow supports, and not forearm supports would be much better.

Don't discount the helmet and skinsuit. Aero matters for everyone.


Cool thanks for the feedback[in this and your other post here]

I will look into the TT bars. I do want to get a TT helmet one day, just trying to make myself earn it by getting the 40av target first.
I agree a skinsuit will be more aero its just probably not enough difference between the 2 for me to care thats all.
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Re: TT position

Postby Baldy » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:45 pm

I may as well ask while I'm here.

Any particular brand of TT bars you can suggest Alex?
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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:57 pm

Must be a fast 20km course if the 1st place in MA2 averaged over 46kmph!... skin suit, aero helmet, shoe covers are cheap gains.
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Re: TT position

Postby Baldy » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:52 pm

Yeah its a fairly quick course I guess. TBH I dunno :lol: Obviously its the only place ive done one with a grand total of 3. The constant pace gets me in TT's, im better at shorter efforts, recover then go again. Not surprising really because that is a product of the just riding around school of "training" I do :wink:

I'm slowing improving and am trying to stay heathy and injury free so thats good enough for me, I'm not in a hurry to be faster. The way i'm going the 40av will take care of itself, then it gets hard :lol:

Here are the results if you are interested http://www.stvcc.asn.au/Assets/Results2 ... Champs.pdf
Rob is a strong rider. Flakey you probably know. Young fella cut his teeth on that course I spose.

Out http://app.strava.com/segments/635653 and back http://app.strava.com/segments/635656

Most of our masters races use that road so some of the faster times are from road races and a few just from massive tailwind training rides. But you can pick the tt's vaia the dates.
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Re: TT position

Postby MarkG » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:08 pm

Me a few weeks back.
This was the end of a 20k tt..I was buggered and neck form started to suffer.

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Re: TT position

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:41 pm

MarkG wrote:Me a few weeks back.
This was the end of a 20k tt..I was buggered and neck form started to suffer.

Image


Seems quite a fast route. Do you know how they calculate out the age handicaps?
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Re: TT position

Postby MarkG » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:43 pm

Usually you can specify when you register
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Re: TT position

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:16 am

Baldy wrote:I may as well ask while I'm here.

Any particular brand of TT bars you can suggest Alex?

Not really. everyone is different. Getting a set that
i. enables you to get into a good position, with supports in the right places, and
ii. is very aero,
is difficult, and is why many bars are custom made at the top level.

i is more important than ii, hence choosing a set that at least provides for flexibility in positioning of elbow supports and hand position is a good thing. For position, think of the following:
elbow supports:
- fore/aft;- up and down;- lateral position (width between elbows); and
- angles they can support depending on whether forearms point straight ahead or angle in to have hands together

hand supports: - as a baseline, have hands so that the thumbs, when hands are wrapped around the hand supports, are horizontal, and have forearm horizontal to very slightly point up from elbows to wrists (but not so far as to be deemed illegal under UCI regs)

Use that as a baseline, and then you experiment from there to see what's more or less aero (need to do either wind tunnel of power meter field testing for that)

Sometimes you do end up compromising because of cost.
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Re: TT position

Postby Baldy » Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:59 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
Baldy wrote:I may as well ask while I'm here.

Any particular brand of TT bars you can suggest Alex?

Not really. everyone is different. Getting a set that
i. enables you to get into a good position, with supports in the right places, and
ii. is very aero,
is difficult, and is why many bars are custom made at the top level.

i is more important than ii, hence choosing a set that at least provides for flexibility in positioning of elbow supports and hand position is a good thing. For position, think of the following:
elbow supports:
- fore/aft;- up and down;- lateral position (width between elbows); and
- angles they can support depending on whether forearms point straight ahead or angle in to have hands together

hand supports: - as a baseline, have hands so that the thumbs, when hands are wrapped around the hand supports, are horizontal, and have forearm horizontal to very slightly point up from elbows to wrists (but not so far as to be deemed illegal under UCI regs)

Use that as a baseline, and then you experiment from there to see what's more or less aero (need to do either wind tunnel of power meter field testing for that)

Sometimes you do end up compromising because of cost.


Yep I understand, thanks for the help mate.

The PRO Synop that's on it have scope for some adjustment. But they can't be moved up or down and are as far back as they go now. Width and angle is good[I think]
They retail for $190 in Australia. I got a deal at my LBS but even with that they are mid priced I guess? Like you say you can throw a lot of cash at them.

I'll have a look around. I just put new road bars/stem/tape/cassette on it so new TT bars will have to wait a while.
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Re: TT position

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:21 pm

Baldy wrote:The PRO Synop that's on it have scope for some adjustment.

Any extensions using normal mass start roads bars as a base bar are going to be sub-optimal.
Positionally, aerodynamically, and for cockpit control.
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Re: TT position

Postby Baldy » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:16 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
Baldy wrote:The PRO Synop that's on it have scope for some adjustment.

Any extensions using normal mass start roads bars as a base bar are going to be sub-optimal.
Positionally, aerodynamically, and for cockpit control.


Compared to what? A TT bike? I think that's pretty obvious.

Or do you mean a TT handlebar setup? Which is not real practical, swapping the entire controls for every TT/RR.
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Re: TT position

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:31 pm

Baldy wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
Baldy wrote:The PRO Synop that's on it have scope for some adjustment.

Any extensions using normal mass start roads bars as a base bar are going to be sub-optimal.
Positionally, aerodynamically, and for cockpit control.


Compared to what? A TT bike? I think that's pretty obvious.

Or do you mean a TT handlebar setup? Which is not real practical, swapping the entire controls for every TT/RR.

You often can't get the elbow pads low enough when using a roadie bars as a base bar. To do so means the drops fall below height of the top of the tyre, which is illegal.
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Re: TT position

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:33 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote: To do so means the drops fall below height of the top of the tyre, which is illegal.

You made me go look at my bikes, looks like my track bike is only just legal. Need to read the exact wording
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Re: TT position

Postby twizzle » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:55 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:You often can't get the elbow pads low enough when using a roadie bars as a base bar. To do so means the drops fall below height of the top of the tyre, which is illegal.


Not a problem with a big frame. :mrgreen:
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