Vivente Randonneur

Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby rifraf » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:45 pm

Tim wrote:
rifraf wrote:Free Masons and secret societies working in the Shimano factory? :shock:


There is also a goats head and a pair of gumboots symbol stamped in a very inconspicuous spot. :twisted:

Priceless :lol: :lol: :lol:
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by BNA » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:19 pm

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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby RonK » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:19 pm

Tim wrote:Nope. Mine has RD2L and TL stamped in a circle. It also has an S symbol, for Sugino I'd assume.

Ah, that's because your crankset is an RD2.
My Stronglight crankset was manufactured by Sugino and is actually an XD2. The 74 BCD chainrings however will fit either crankset.
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby Tim » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:50 pm

Good to know, thanks Ron. I'll be brave next time and order the steel rings. Are you running a steel middle ring?
Where are you getting this info from? I struggled to find anything much on the Sugino cranks. On the Vivente site they are named Alpina 600t, couldn't find much at all on Google.

Edit: Just looked at the Sugino site. I think I might have a RD2 left crank and an Alpina2 right crank. Huh?
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby rog on a bike » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:16 pm

The more I ride this thing the more I see Noels view on it.
In the last three days I've put nearly 150k on the VWR, the last 90 have had the loaded trailer attached.
I'm finding I seem to be riding myself into the standard gears (As delivered) and yes I have ordered the 24t CR. My riding technique is changing daily, climbing as smoothly and in many cases slower (lower cadence) remaining centered over the bike seems to be producing slightly higher climbing gear selections.
Rifraf mentioned tour fitness and I can see where he is coming from :D I wonder if we are trying to much to soon :?: Or should I say expecting to much to soon.
I know I'll be keeping the cogs I replace for a future date.
ron and tim I think the CR is alloy, I hope to get at least 2000k out of it.
I'll see how it fairs after the trip down south.
cheers Rog
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby Tim » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:49 pm

rog on a bike wrote:....remaining centered over the bike.....


That's the trick I learnt pretty fast, with my very limited touring experience.
As ilPadrone put it, "honking along", swinging the body and bike from side to side uphill with a big load just doesn't work. Being fairly lightweight at 63kg's I am accustomed to climbing most hills on my racing bike out of the saddle and I ride at a fairly high cadence (90-100rpm) most of the time.
RonK set me straight on the touring mindset, its entirely different to unloaded road riding. I still have to consciously "let go" of the go fast mentality.
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby rifraf » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:09 pm

Tim wrote:. I still have to consciously "let go" of the go fast mentality.

Guys those roses really need smelling.
On my NSW to WA trip I had a couple of rough days including fracturing a couple of ribs in a fall.
By far the worst day was the day I finished and not the days that included a bit of gloom because
of some scraped skin or inclement weather.
Be in the moment if you can is my advice and dont focus too much if at all on the destination.
Dont hurry to the finishline but enjoy the journey.
Tarry awhile and watch some grass grow. :D
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby Tim » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:21 pm

Tim wrote:consciously "let go" of the go fast mentality.


rifraf wrote:Be in the moment if you can is my advice and dont focus too much if at all on the destination.
Dont hurry to the finishline but enjoy the journey.


Starting to sound like old hippies.
Or should that be "The New Age Enlightened Ones"

:D Tarry awhile and watch some grass grow. :D
[/quote]

Would that be the mowing variety or the other. :D
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby RonK » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:35 am

Tim wrote:Good to know, thanks Ron. I'll be brave next time and order the steel rings. Are you running a steel middle ring?
Where are you getting this info from? I struggled to find anything much on the Sugino cranks. On the Vivente site they are named Alpina 600t, couldn't find much at all on Google.

Edit: Just looked at the Sugino site. I think I might have a RD2 left crank and an Alpina2 right crank. Huh?


Well, it's fairly common knowledge that Sugino cranks are often rebranded.

But I think you actually have Alpina because RD2 cranks have a BCD of 130mm, but there is no 130 BCD 26T chainring offered, whereas Alpina and XD2 both have 110/74mm BCD with 74 BCD chain rings from 24-32T. All this is from the Sugino web site, but it is rather sparse information.

I'm actually using the crank as a single speed for my Rohloff. Only the 39T alloy middle ring is used - the inner and outer chain ring positions are occupied by chain guards. It's actually one of these.
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby rog on a bike » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:26 pm

Hi All.
It would appear I've cured the seat post slip issue :D Noel suggested to keep wiping the post clean daily, I added a damp cloth with metho on the inside of the frame and the outside of the seat post only in the area where the clamping occurs. Seems to have worked a treat :D
I'm very impressed with the after sales support provided by Vivente and Noel MacFarlin :shock:
Cheers Rog
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby elStado » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:19 am

rog on a bike wrote:Hi All.
It would appear I've cured the seat post slip issue :D Noel suggested to keep wiping the post clean daily, I added a damp cloth with metho on the inside of the frame and the outside of the seat post only in the area where the clamping occurs. Seems to have worked a treat :D
I'm very impressed with the after sales support provided by Vivente and Noel MacFarlin :shock:
Cheers Rog


I only needed to clean mine twice. The first time I just used a rag, and it kept slipping a little. Noel urged me to give it another crack and to also use some solvents to assist to remove any residual grease. I followed his instructions and was successful the second time. I dab of turps (or any other solvent of your choice) on a clean rag, some thorough cleaning of the post and the tube and all was well!

Yes Noel McFarlane is excellent. He's helped me out on numerous occasions. Great to have a local company that actually values it's customers and want's to promote cycling! They deserve our full support.
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby Tim » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:28 pm

I have just finished fitting a new HG50/11-34 cassette and a 24t Sugino aluminium chainring to the VWR (and a new CN53 chain). Been for a shortish test ride and everything works perfectly. Full range of gears, changes smoothly and shifts from ring to ring beautifully. Just had to tighten the B screw in a bit (all the way) to allow the derailleur to clear the large (34) cog.
Cost around $95.00 for cassette, ring, chain and delivery. Pretty reasonable price. They are only cheaper range parts, but I chose to stick with the same range as was originally supplied on the bike, less worry about compatability.
This now means I have a low gear of 18.8 gear inches. Hopefully that'll get me up and over all these East Gippsland hills with a full load without too many troubles. I'll probably be carrying a little over 20kg's, is that low enough?
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby elStado » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:19 am

Tim wrote:I have just finished fitting a new HG50/11-34 cassette and a 24t Sugino aluminium chainring to the VWR (and a new CN53 chain). Been for a shortish test ride and everything works perfectly. Full range of gears, changes smoothly and shifts from ring to ring beautifully. Just had to tighten the B screw in a bit (all the way) to allow the derailleur to clear the large (34) cog.
Cost around $95.00 for cassette, ring, chain and delivery. Pretty reasonable price. They are only cheaper range parts, but I chose to stick with the same range as was originally supplied on the bike, less worry about compatability.
This now means I have a low gear of 18.8 gear inches. Hopefully that'll get me up and over all these East Gippsland hills with a full load without too many troubles. I'll probably be carrying a little over 20kg's, is that low enough?


Give it a go and report back. But 20kg... are you sure? I was only carrying ~15kg worth of gear for fully self-supported touring, including a 3.6L of water, 1 L of fuel and some basic packaged food.

Pack what you think you need, remove 3/4 of it, and then you will have your appropriate amount. 8)
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby rog on a bike » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:21 pm

Tim wrote:I have just finished fitting a new HG50/11-34 cassette and a 24t Sugino aluminium chainring to the VWR (and a new CN53 chain). Been for a shortish test ride and everything works perfectly. Full range of gears, changes smoothly and shifts from ring to ring beautifully. Just had to tighten the B screw in a bit (all the way) to allow the derailleur to clear the large (34) cog.
Cost around $95.00 for cassette, ring, chain and delivery. Pretty reasonable price. They are only cheaper range parts, but I chose to stick with the same range as was originally supplied on the bike, less worry about compatability.
This now means I have a low gear of 18.8 gear inches. Hopefully that'll get me up and over all these East Gippsland hills with a full load without too many troubles. I'll probably be carrying a little over 20kg's, is that low enough?

Tim. Can you confirm you have fitted the 11/34 cassette to the T 661 sgs rear deraileur (As fitted to the 2012 VWR) :?:
A very long and tiresome trolling of the Shimano site indicates the largest cassette that the T 661 sgs can deal with is the fitted 11/32 :? Did you have to add any links to the chain?
The addition of the 24t CR has got me down to 20.4 Gear inches, which isn't bad :roll: But I'd love to be down in the 18s :D
Thanks for your help.
Cheers Rog
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby Tim » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:56 am

G'day Rog. I can indeed confirm that I've fitted an 11-34 cassette to the T661, Deore LX rear derailleur. The SGS in it's title refers to it being a long cage, capable of taking 34t and Noel Mcfarlane confirmed this with a query from Amalasuntha recently. I went through the same process of checking the Shimano Techdocs and doubting the 11-34 (and the 24t chainring) suitability but I now know that the system works. For some reason Shimano only recommend 32t maximum on the back and no more than 22t difference on the front, but I have the new combination working perfectly. I have only trialled the new setup on my steep front driveway and for a short distance on the front road but all gears change and run very well. The derailleur changed smoothly from 30 to 34 under heavy load on the dirt driveway. I don't anticipate any problems on a fully laden, longer ride .
I fitted a new chain when I fitted the new parts. Not sure if it is longer or shorter than the original combo, probably longer. To measure the new chain length I used the method of wrapping it around the largest ring and cassette cog (but not through the rear derailleur) and adding a full link (2 half links-1inch extra).
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby rog on a bike » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:06 pm

Hi All. A quick technical question. In Shimano rear derailleurs what is the difference between a T 661 SGS and a M 662 SGS.
Shimano tech. docs say the 661 is limited to 32 teeth max and the 662 is limited to 36. Both are 9 speed and previous posts (tim) indicate the 34 fits.
The 661 is the standard fit to 2012 Vivente WR.
Thanks in advance
Cheers Rog
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby rog on a bike » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:33 am

Well :roll:
The 34T cassette fits perfectly :D I didn't need to adjust anything. Original chain length and all :?
What appears to have happened is the drop of 26 to 24 on the CR has compensated for the minimal increase in diameter of the cassette from 32 to 34 :?:
Very curious? I'm not sure what shimano is on about? I still have significant adjustment on A and B rear deraillieur screws.
One point! I did purchase the higher end HG70something cassette rather than the HG50 other than that there is no difference, changes are smooth and clean and I'm
getting 18.4 gear inches and loving it :lol:
Cheers Rog.
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby RonK » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:39 am

rog on a bike wrote:I'm
getting 18.4 gear inches and loving it :lol:

happy hillclimbing. :)
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby Baalzamon » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:10 pm

rog on a bike wrote:I'm getting 18.4 gear inches and loving it :lol:
Cheers Rog.


I bet you are, I love my 12.69 gear inches on my trike :wink: Got me up some very tough hills in pea gravel 9-13% ugh 3kph.
Wasn't loving that, was grimacing a fair bit...
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby Tim » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:27 pm

I love the new lower gearing. Two days of (lightly) loaded commuting and I can spin up a 15% hill at one third walking pace. :D Well, not quite.

rog on a bike wrote: I still have significant adjustment on A and B rear derailleur screws.


Just be a little bit careful Rog. I think the A and B screws you are referring to are the derailleur limit screws. They shouldn't need any adjusting other than a very minor tweek and only if the new cassette is aligned to the derailleur differently than the old one.
The B screw I had to adjust was the (vertical) derailleur angle adjustment screw. You probably already know this but just in case, it is the single little screw located at the point where the derailleur is mounted to the bike frame. It controls how close the top pulley wheel sits in relation to the largest cassette sprocket. In my case the pulley wheel was just touching the largest sprocket so I had to tighten the B screw to lower the pulley wheel/s away from the cassette. I had to tighten it almost to the limit of its adjustment in order to avoid contact between the pulley and sprocket.
Yours may be different and not need altering but its still worth checking. Just spin the cranks backwards with the chain on the largest rear sprocket and smallest chainring and make sure.
Enjoy those hills.
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby Tim » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:42 pm

Rog, I hope this doesn't confuse things any more than I already have but something else just occurred to me.
Assuming your chain was the correct length for the original configuration it is probably too short for the new larger cassette setup if you attempt to pedal in the large ring-largest rear sprocket combination. Cross chaining isn't recommended anyway so it really doesn't matter, but check anyway. You don't want to accidentally change into this combo and possibly damage the derailleur.
I fitted a new chain at the correct length and can ride in the aforementioned combination although I won't. BUT, as I just found out, if I attempt to ride on the smallest chainring and smallest rear sprocket the lower run of chain comes into contact with and rubs on the upper section of the derailleur cage. Again this is cross chaining but at the opposite extreme, and I won't do it. This is the reason Shimano recommend a 22T maximum difference between the largest and smallest chainrings. I am now considering fitting a 46T chainring and shortening the chain to overcome this problem, or else completely avoiding cross chaining, as I usually do.
In your case check the full range of gear combinations. It is at the extremes of large-large or small-small that problems may arise. Hope this makes some sort of sense. I don't want you (or myself) damaging anything.
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby RonK » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:29 pm

Tim, why not just trim the front derailleur? That is what the half-click is for.
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby Tim » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:16 pm

Ron, I had trouble explaining the problem. These photos may help. The chain is not rubbing on the front derailleur. It is fouling the rear derailleur.
Image
Image
The top photo shows the derailleur in the large 48T chainring/largest 34T rear sprocket position. The chain is as tight as it can be (using Sheldon Browne's method to measure and cut chain to length) and the RD is fully extended. No problem.
The bottom photo shows the derailleur in the small 24T chainring/smallest 11T rear sprocket position. The RD is fully wound up and the chain is rubbing on the top (right hand side in photo) of the jockey wheel cage. The chain is effectively too long for this position but if I shorten it then it will be too short for 48front/34rear position.
It is only of any concern if I ride cross-chained on the small chainring which I don't unless I suffer a severe brain fade.
I think the solution is to change the 48T ring for a 46T and shorten the chain by one link. This then complies with Shimano's recommended maximum chainring size difference and effectively shortens the chain in the problem small/small position
Last edited by Tim on Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:02 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby Tim » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:18 pm

Bugger, photos didn't load properly. First time. I'll try again.

Loaded them. Now have to work out how to resize them.

Done.
Last edited by Tim on Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby rifraf » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:23 pm

Tim wrote:Bugger, photos didn't load properly. First time. I'll try again.

Hi Tim,
I think you just need to left click on the bottom Img tab and then go to this page and
right click and paste.
Hope this works for you (and that I've explained it right :roll:)
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Re: Vivente Randonneur

Postby rog on a bike » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:40 pm

Thanks Guys.
Tim, When the bike is upside down and unloaded the top pulley of the derailleur appears to touch the teeth of the largest sprocket, However up right and loaded (Not that it should make any difference) it appears to clear.
I'll have a closer look tomorrow and see if anything needs changing. In relation to cross gearing the only gear I may work through the full range of the cassette is the middle CR (36t)
I never go above 5 (Measured from the bottom up) on the small chain ring and never below 5 on the large CR.
That's in a perfect world :D But we all know fatigue plays tricks on you in the perfect world :lol:

ronk,
at the risk of sticking my head in a rabbit trap. Can you walk me through the adjustment you refer to on the front derailleur :?:
and its effect on the rear set up.
Thanks again guys
Cheers Rog
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