Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zone

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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Zynster » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:10 pm

Elizabeth St in Brisbane CBD is a 40kph zone. With 4 lanes and a long straight downhill, it's very easy for a cyclist to go over the speed limit in this situation. I've actually been abused by motorists for holding them up, while sitting on 40kph. :shock:
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by BNA » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:35 pm

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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby find_bruce » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:35 pm

rokwiz wrote:Road rules are for everyone who uses them, including jaywalking which I stupidly did in Bendigo got pinged for it, paid my dues and will not do it again. (A zero tolerence town) Mate, I think I know whos got the logic problem

How many demerit points did you lose for jaywalking Geoff ?
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby rokwiz » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:25 pm

None, Didn't have points system then, funny thing though I walked straight out of Moroni's bike shop and crossed the road. Had a NSW licence, cops wanted to know how I got there, why I was there and how long I was going to visit, Geoff
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby rolandp » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:45 pm

Local paper has an article this week:
Drivers ignoring signs in school zone
ALARMING statistics, showing that one in six drivers speed more than 10km/h over the speed limit in a Tuart Hill school zone, have prompted a call for electronic signs to be installed on Cape Street.

Balcatta MLA John Kobelke has called for the State Government to install the lights outside Tuart Hill Primary School after City of Stirling traffic statistics showed more than 51 per cent of drivers exceeded 40km/h, and more than 15 per cent exceeded 50km/h in the zone.

The data showed the average speed of drivers at nearly 48km/h, while the maximum recorded speed was 94km/h.

Mr Kobelke said the number of people speeding in the school zone was “totally unacceptable”.

“It shows the need for action to get drivers to comply with the school zone speed limit for the safety of the children using the crossing and the guards who assist them to cross the road,” he said.

The electronic signs cost about $40,000 to install.

West Metropolitan Traffic officer-in-charge Senior Sergeant Patricia Lagan said the majority of drivers prosecuted were often unaware they were in a school zone.

“If they do not see a school zone sign, then they may not notice a stop sign or give-way sign ,and the consequences of that can be serious,” she said.

“It should be a good wake-up to any driver who inadvertently passes through a school zone without noticing the signs that they need to pay more attention to their driving.” Sen Sgt Lagan said often the worst speeding offenders were people who lived in the area.

City of Stirling infrastructure director Geoff Eves said the City would like to see electronic school zones signs installed outside all schools in the area.

“It is certainly disappointing that over 15 per cent of motorists choose to ignore the existing 40km/h signs and pavement markings, as children are considered to be some of the most vulnerable road users,” he said.

Mr Eves said an assessment of the street showed some form of traffic calming measure was needed, but the specific measurements had not been determined.


Were is the outcry from the general public to these statistics. Didn't even make the general papers, just the local rag, even though the cyclists article made national and attracted 544 comments on PerthNow.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby RobertFrith » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:19 am

I ride and I drive. The rules are clear. There are no excuses.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Oxford » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

rolandp wrote:...

Were is the outcry from the general public to these statistics. Didn't even make the general papers, just the local rag, even though the cyclists article made national and attracted 544 comments on PerthNow.

Because holding a mirror up and seeing yourself or people like you is not agreeable. Easier to hold it up and see a group you are not part of. Marginalising is about ostracising those unlike you.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby PawPaw » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:09 am

What would the fine have been if it was a 12 yo cyclist?
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby GraemeL » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:39 am

rolandp wrote:Local paper has an article this week:
Drivers ignoring signs in school zone
[i]ALARMING statistics, showing that one in six drivers speed more than 10km/h over the speed limit in a Tuart Hill school zone, have prompted a call for electronic signs to be installed on Cape Street.



No need for electronic signs, just ramp up the fines to something like losing your license for 3 months. If they don't realise they are in a school zone they aren't paying attention and shouldn't be on the roads.

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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby bychosis » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:06 am

I like to see the signs, especially the electronic ones. I do my best to travel through school zones at 40 (or under 40 if apprpriate) and the easiest ones to do this at are those where I see the school zones and don't have to check the day and time to work out what speed is legal. Flashing signs make chekcing the time redundant. Lights on, then 40. Lights off, then carry on.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby ILMB » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:32 am

GraemeL wrote:
rolandp wrote:Local paper has an article this week:
Drivers ignoring signs in school zone
[i]ALARMING statistics, showing that one in six drivers speed more than 10km/h over the speed limit in a Tuart Hill school zone, have prompted a call for electronic signs to be installed on Cape Street.



No need for electronic signs, just ramp up the fines to something like losing your license for 3 months. If they don't realise they are in a school zone they aren't paying attention and shouldn't be on the roads.

Graeme


Problem is that I don't have kids or ready access to school-aged kids. As such I'm seldom aware of when the school holidays are. I guess a solution would be to force 40km zones around schools 365 days of the year, and not just during term times. Edit. Or I could self-impose a speed limit of 40kms 365 a year. That would really make other motorists happy during the school holidays!
Last edited by ILMB on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby greyhoundtom » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:34 am

bychosis wrote:I like to see the signs, especially the electronic ones. I do my best to travel through school zones at 40 (or under 40 if apprpriate) and the easiest ones to do this at are those where I see the school zones and don't have to check the day and time to work out what speed is legal. Flashing signs make chekcing the time redundant. Lights on, then 40. Lights off, then carry on.

In my area they have solved that problem by signing the area normally marked as a "school speed zone" as a 40 km per hour zone at all times.

Saves a lot of confusion and takes away the myriad excuses used when drivers do get pulled up speeding in a "school speed zone".

(Edit)..........unhappy drivers?............bad luck :wink:
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby find_bruce » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:39 am

PawPaw wrote:What would the fine have been if it was a 12 yo cyclist?

A 12 yo cyclist with the ability to ride at 56 km/h - any fine would be vastly outweighed by the money he or she will earn as an olympian before turning professional :D
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby PawPaw » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:40 am

find_bruce wrote:
PawPaw wrote:What would the fine have been if it was a 12 yo cyclist?

A 12 yo cyclist with the ability to ride at 56 km/h - any fine would be vastly outweighed by the money he or she will earn as an olympian before turning professional :D


The 5th place getter in this list has trained with us regularly since he was 12. He was doing 50+kph when 12, on a bicycle without age limited gearing.
http://www.cycling.org.au/?ID=47649

Nevertheless, not all school ped crossing are on flat roads. :)
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby jindydiver » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:35 pm

rolandp wrote:Local paper has an article this week:
Drivers ignoring signs in school zone
ALARMING statistics, showing that one in six drivers speed more than 10km/h over the speed limit in a Tuart Hill school zone, have prompted a call for electronic signs to be installed on Cape Street.

Balcatta MLA John Kobelke has called for the State Government to install the lights outside Tuart Hill Primary School after City of Stirling traffic statistics showed more than 51 per cent of drivers exceeded 40km/h, and more than 15 per cent exceeded 50km/h in the zone.

The data showed the average speed of drivers at nearly 48km/h, while the maximum recorded speed was 94km/h.

Mr Kobelke said the number of people speeding in the school zone was “totally unacceptable”.

“It shows the need for action to get drivers to comply with the school zone speed limit for the safety of the children using the crossing and the guards who assist them to cross the road,” he said.

The electronic signs cost about $40,000 to install.

West Metropolitan Traffic officer-in-charge Senior Sergeant Patricia Lagan said the majority of drivers prosecuted were often unaware they were in a school zone.

“If they do not see a school zone sign, then they may not notice a stop sign or give-way sign ,and the consequences of that can be serious,” she said.

“It should be a good wake-up to any driver who inadvertently passes through a school zone without noticing the signs that they need to pay more attention to their driving.” Sen Sgt Lagan said often the worst speeding offenders were people who lived in the area.

City of Stirling infrastructure director Geoff Eves said the City would like to see electronic school zones signs installed outside all schools in the area.

“It is certainly disappointing that over 15 per cent of motorists choose to ignore the existing 40km/h signs and pavement markings, as children are considered to be some of the most vulnerable road users,” he said.

Mr Eves said an assessment of the street showed some form of traffic calming measure was needed, but the specific measurements had not been determined.


Were is the outcry from the general public to these statistics. Didn't even make the general papers, just the local rag, even though the cyclists article made national and attracted 544 comments on PerthNow.


Yep, a sign will stop them speeding :roll:
How about you save the $40k and install something much more revenue neutral like a copper with a radar gun. I bet speeding statistics in that area would drop dramatically.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Cheesewheel » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:32 pm

damhooligan wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:Nothing wrong with demeriting wrongdoing road users for non motorised offences.

As long as it's ALL of them.



That wil only be helpfull if a cyclists has a cycling license...
but please, lets not go there....

funnily enough, I vaguely recall some paper/legislation inquiry thing about school kids (in regional areas) clocking up largish fines for not wearing a helmet while riding. The problem was that they only realized later that they couldn't get a license until they payed their fines ... and because of that, they couldn't get a car ... and because of that, they had reduced employment prospects since they couldn't drive to work ... and because of that they were locked in a cycle (no not a motorcycle) of low income/unemployment/engagement in unsavoury/criminal acts.

So there you have it folks : Not wearing a helmet leads to heroin addiction. (oops, another subject we can't get in to)

(Seriously, though, there was some sort of inquiry things about the value of penalizing an individuals capacity to own and operate a car on the strength of misdemeanors performed on a bicycle - dunno, maybe when we become a republic it should be written into the constitution that its every man, woman and child's god-given right to own a car in australia)
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:45 pm

jindydiver wrote:[Yep, a sign will stop them speeding :roll:
How about you save the $40k and install something much more revenue neutral like a copper with a radar gun. I bet speeding statistics in that area would drop dramatically.


Damn right. Hit 'em hard and hit 'em now. An impersonal velocity tax invoice in the mail three weeks after the supposed offence has zero deterrent effect. Seeing Joe Hoon pulled up with lights on behind him is instant correction.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:55 pm

School signs should be highlighted in school hours though... there are a zillion road signs in some areas and if you are not watching the clock it can happen that you drive through one not realizing what time it is.
Everyone has done it... if they are serious about saving lives then flashing lights or permanently reduce the speed limit in that area.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:17 pm

Who needs signs anyway? If there's shedloads of smokeboxes milling around all trying to get the prime spot right near the gate then it's slow down time.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:20 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Who needs signs anyway? If there's shedloads of smokeboxes milling around all trying to get the prime spot right near the gate then it's slow down time.


Not always... driving Melbourne Sydney once I luckily was behind another car who got done for 60kms in a school zone... there was nobody at all around and it was maybe 2 minutes into the time zone.
Save lives or make money?.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:15 pm

I'm sure there's an element of both Toolong.

Seriously? Quiet roads less than an hour before gate hour? At my lads school they start arriving ~70-80" before stumps then sit there with the aircon running :shock:
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby jindydiver » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:37 am

Mulger bill wrote:I'm sure there's an element of both Toolong.

Seriously? Quiet roads less than an hour before gate hour? At my lads school they start arriving ~70-80" before stumps then sit there with the aircon running :shock:


Lots of competition for limited parking, wouldn't want their precious to have to walk any distance. :roll:
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby GraemeL » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:41 am

I go through two school zones daily and I have to say that the speeders I see are mostly women, both arriving at the school and leaving with their little darlings.

Signs will do little to stop it, whether electronic or not. Heftier penalties would make them think twice.

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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby zero » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:51 pm

GraemeL wrote:I go through two school zones daily and I have to say that the speeders I see are mostly women, both arriving at the school and leaving with their little darlings.

Signs will do little to stop it, whether electronic or not. Heftier penalties would make them think twice.

Graeme


in practice the best sign packages (timed solar powered flashing lights + the standardised colors) have proven effective in increasing compliance, probably more so than twiddling the fines. The main thing that irks me, is that the full setup is not currently a blanket practice.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:35 pm

GraemeL wrote:I go through two school zones daily and I have to say that the speeders I see are mostly women, both arriving at the school and leaving with their little darlings.

Signs will do little to stop it, whether electronic or not. Heftier penalties would make them think twice.

Graeme


You could make the fine $10,000 per km/h over and it won't mean jack if there's no enforcement. Risk of being busted is a much greater deterrent than higher penalties.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Cyclist fined for riding 56km/h in Scarborough school zo

Postby queequeg » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:46 pm

zero wrote:
GraemeL wrote:I go through two school zones daily and I have to say that the speeders I see are mostly women, both arriving at the school and leaving with their little darlings.

Signs will do little to stop it, whether electronic or not. Heftier penalties would make them think twice.

Graeme


in practice the best sign packages (timed solar powered flashing lights + the standardised colors) have proven effective in increasing compliance, probably more so than twiddling the fines. The main thing that irks me, is that the full setup is not currently a blanket practice.


One observation I made is that in NSW the school zones are all active at the same time. However, when I was in QLD last year, the school zones were not consistent. It made it difficult to know if it applied or not, edpecislly being being from interstate with different school terms. So, while we were on holidays it did not mean they were in QLD.
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