Rust in BB a problem?

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Is this frame worth fixing?

yes, sink lots more money and time into making it better
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no, just keep it as a beater
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Total votes : 10

Rust in BB a problem?

Postby blick » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:02 pm

Just wanted an opinion on this frame as to whether is it worth sending to the bike store to have the BB removed or just put it back together with the worn BB parts

The frame is a ~1990s shogun team issue, tange prestige. A bit of surface rust here and there but otherwise rest of bike is in good shape

Trying to replace the BB with a cartidge BB. Got the left locknut off with no problems and found the spindle had deep grooves and lots of pitting at both ends.

Right side is stuck fast. After half a can of wd40, and several attempts with a bench vise I still cant get the locknut off. I cleaned out the BB as best I could with rag and screwdriver and this is what I could see. It looks like more than a little surface rust to me. I'm afraid removing the locknut might damage the frame beyond repair
ImageImage

detailed photos of my bike can be found here
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by BNA » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:18 pm

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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby bychosis » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:18 pm

Sure you are turning it the right way? I was having a devil of a time removing the right side cup froma. Siezed and well rusted BB last week until I worked out that I was turning it the wrong way, wasn't too hard after that. It initially moved a bit, so I kept tightening thinking I was undoing it, reverse the torque and out it came.
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby barkmadly » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:01 pm

As blick notes, the LH BB cup has a LH thread. If the cup has spanner flats, then gently put them into a vice and use the leverage of the frame to loosen enough until you can get a tool onto it. If it is the pin type another trick I have used is to tack weld a length of angle or similar and use it as a secure lever. The heat from welding can work for and against you however.
The heat can loosen the thread but may damage the paint. It will work though. Have fun.
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby Mustang » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:03 pm

As to the reply above..dosn't look that bad? I recently ground down a round wire brush (to the size of the BB) that's used on a spindle with a drill.
It cleaned the threads beaut., by forwards/reversing the drill.
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby blick » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:04 pm

Pretty sure it is left hand thread (clockwise to loosen). Thats what it tells me on Sheldon Brown's website. However I did try both ways in frustration
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby LG » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:13 pm

Try harder, they can take a fair bit of force. If you can't get the vice to hold it properly, make yourself a fixed cup removal tool. Sheldon will show you how :wink: Mine is an appropriate sized bolt I had left over from when I built my house.
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:36 pm

Just looks like normal gunk to me. As for the BB cup, heat, brute force and making sure you're turning it the right way should do the trick.

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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby vanbree » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:39 pm

Another way of removing a very stubborn bearing cup, is to very carefully cut a slot in the cup with a dremel, or if your game angle grinder!, then use a hammer & cold chisel to tap it around. Has worked for me
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby Saro28 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:08 am

From Sheldon....
my local has something simmilar, using it in the vice and frame as leverage. give the cup some gentle tapping to try to break the rusty bond, also around the BB in yr going to repaint
http://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:48 am

LG wrote:Try harder, they can take a fair bit of force. If you can't get the vice to hold it properly, make yourself a fixed cup removal tool. Sheldon will show you how :wink: Mine is an appropriate sized bolt I had left over from when I built my house.

This

If a new BB is going in, go brutal onthe old one. This is Sheldons tool that LG mentioned...
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby Hoffyrider » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:41 pm

I had a similar problem with an 1989 Repco Olympic 12 frame which probably not as good as your Shogun. I tried the bench vice at home then soaked the cup in WD40 for a week, then tried the vice again, still no action. So off to the LBS, junior mechanic has a go with the right tool for about 15 minutes - no luck. Senior mechanic moves the junior aside and gets a 6 foot long pipe slips in over the tool and "Bob's your uncle" at a total cost of $0 (I bought the sealed bottom bracket from this shop a week before). Lessons learnt - preferably use the right tool, secure the frame near the bottom bracket in a rigid stand and apply heaps of leverage (damage to frame is possible so don't try this with your best bike) . LBS's are sometimes your best bet (how much is your own time worth).
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby Dan » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:46 pm

Follow all instructions above.
Clean it up - dump a load of fish oil into it, swirl it around.
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby blick » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:37 pm

diggerdantheman wrote:Clean it up - dump a load of fish oil into it, swirl it around.


Fish oil, what does that do? am I supposed to put that inside the frame?

Hoffyrider wrote:LBS's are sometimes your best bet (how much is your own time worth).


I'm starting to think along these lines
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby Saro28 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:59 pm

Fish oil must be applied to rust free surfaces, otherwise the rust will continue to grow underneath.
FWIW, i use..........
PENETROLFACT SHEET
Description
Penetrol is an air-drying, film forming, deeply penetrating mixture of natural oils. It
does not contain linseed or fish oil, has a low odour and is non-toxic when dry. With
a penetrating power 3 times that of water it goes deep into the substrate and forms a
strong bond for subsequent topcoats.
Purpose
Penetrol stops paint form peeling, cracking, and flaking; increases paint flow and
levelling. It brings life back to faded wood stains, rejuvenates old dull plastics and
fibreglass, and makes paint stick to almost anything. Penetrol stops and prevents
rust, corrosion and oxidisation.
It can be used in confined and damp areas and
reduces fire and fume hazards. Withstands temperatures of over 100°C.
http://www.floodaustralia.net/brochures_guides/pdf_files/Penetrol-factsheet.pdf
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby sunho » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:18 pm

Saro28 wrote:Fish oil must be applied to rust free surfaces, otherwise the rust will continue to grow underneath.
FWIW, i use..........
PENETROLFACT SHEET
Description
Penetrol is an air-drying, film forming, deeply penetrating mixture of natural oils. It
does not contain linseed or fish oil, has a low odour and is non-toxic when dry. With
a penetrating power 3 times that of water it goes deep into the substrate and forms a
strong bond for subsequent topcoats.
Purpose
Penetrol stops paint form peeling, cracking, and flaking; increases paint flow and
levelling. It brings life back to faded wood stains, rejuvenates old dull plastics and
fibreglass, and makes paint stick to almost anything. Penetrol stops and prevents
rust, corrosion and oxidisation.
It can be used in confined and damp areas and
reduces fire and fume hazards. Withstands temperatures of over 100°C.
http://www.floodaustralia.net/brochures_guides/pdf_files/Penetrol-factsheet.pdf


that's gold. I might drop into bunnings and pick one up
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby adrian_d » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:49 pm

It all seems pretty usual in that Bottom Bracket. I would advise cleaning it all up. It looks like a combination of dirt. As long as the threads haven't deteriated in height considerably and you can torque the bottom brackets accordingly to the correct tightness then you'll have no worries.

I'd be really keen to check out how you end up going. Well done for your persistance.
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:25 pm

Kleen Bore brand 'Gunk Out' is another good one. The label does say 'death may occur without warning' but it does an exceptional job. Very good for jammed up freewheels.
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby JustJames » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:15 pm

ldrcycles wrote:Kleen Bore brand 'Gunk Out' is another good one. The label does say 'death may occur without warning' but it does an exceptional job. Very good for jammed up freewheels.


You often see really good advice on product labels.

Another good one which I try to live by is "keep out of reach of small children".
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby adrian_d » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:53 pm

JustJames wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:Kleen Bore brand 'Gunk Out' is another good one. The label does say 'death may occur without warning' but it does an exceptional job. Very good for jammed up freewheels.


You often see really good advice on product labels.

Another good one which I try to live by is "keep out of reach of small children".


Another good sign of a good product is the ability to loose your short term memory the longer you are around the stuff haha.
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby munga » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:32 pm

Another good sign of a good product is the ability to loose your short term memory the longer you are around the stuff haha.
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby BRLVR.v2 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:43 pm

munga wrote:Another good sign of a good product is the ability to loose your short term memory the longer you are around the stuff haha.


looks like it affects ones ability to spell lose correctly.
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:08 pm

BRLVR.v2 wrote:
munga wrote:Another good sign of a good product is the ability to loose your short term memory the longer you are around the stuff haha.


looks like it affects ones ability to spell lose correctly.


Naaah, blame teh interwebz for that, spelchequers are dumb :wink:
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby blick » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:59 pm

That penetrol looks useful but will it help me get the locknut off? I imagine it is more for protecting the BB after I've cleaned it up

I'm just going to drop it off at the lbs tomorrow and let them have a crack at it. Cartridge BB should be arriving in the mail any day now.
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby Saro28 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:25 pm

blick wrote:That penetrol looks useful but will it help me get the locknut off?
NO, use Penetrol as described

I imagine it is more for protecting the BB after I've cleaned it up
YES, internally is where it will do its job and also on any external chromed or paint scratched areas.

I'm just going to drop it off at the lbs tomorrow and let them have a crack at it.

If they have the tool as above ( same sort of!) it will look so easy. Hit with WD NOW to give as much chance to soak in.

Build it, race it and show it off :lol:
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Re: Rust in BB a problem?

Postby Dan » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:49 pm

munga wrote:Another good sign of a good product is the ability to loose your short term memory the longer you are around the stuff haha.


I got it Munga, don't worry.
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